View Poll Results: Would you swap Ross for Davis in the Gay trade if possible?

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Thread: Everything Rudy Gay

  1. #321
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    The struggling Raptors appear to believe in Gay. General manager Bryan Colangelo already views him as the face of the franchise, and a source said he will likely offer a contract extension in the offseason. Toronto is in need of star power since the departure of Chris Bosh and the demise of Andrea Bargnani, the former No. 1 draft pick. Attempts will be made to move Bargnani this summer for a proven scoring post player, sources said. Yahoo! Sports
    TORONTO RAPTORS, RUDY GAY | SHARE


    I like!
    Hmmmm, knowing Colangelo, he'd throw him another $75 Mil over 5 years. And that's on the low-end. Yikes.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  2. #322
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    The struggling Raptors appear to believe in Gay. General manager Bryan Colangelo already views him as the face of the franchise, and a source said he will likely offer a contract extension in the offseason. Toronto is in need of star power since the departure of Chris Bosh and the demise of Andrea Bargnani, the former No. 1 draft pick. Attempts will be made to move Bargnani this summer for a proven scoring post player, sources said. Yahoo! Sports
    TORONTO RAPTORS, RUDY GAY | SHARE


    I like!
    And the angels sang.......... "Ah-Ah-LE-LU-IA!"

    By the way, that was for the Bargnani part.

    As for Gay, this is smart thinking. We don't want to be Boshed again. If he turns down the extension we know what has to be done.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #323
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As for Gay, this is smart thinking. We don't want to be Boshed again. If he turns down the extension we know what has to be done.
    +1 but it depends what the extension is. hopefully not a continuation of max money. somewhere between 10-12 million seems more than fair
    For The Win

  4. #324
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Default Has Rudy Gay earned an extension?

    Came across an article by Marc Spears of Yahoo Sports about Rudy Gay.

    It's mostly fluff, but I found this section interesting:

    The struggling Raptors appear to believe in Gay. General manager Bryan Colangelo already views him as the face of the franchise, and a source said he will likely offer a contract extension in the offseason.
    Really!?!?!? This doesn't make sense to me. Gay's got 17 mill coming to him next year, and a player option of 19 mill the year after. The way you offer Gay an extension is because you think he'll be worth MORE when he becomes a free agent than he is worth NOW. Based on the fact that he is making max money, I don't see how he can be worth more. It's not like coangelo can't offer him max money two years from now, so I don't see what his rush is. Maybe he thinks that Rudy will agree to take a less than max contract since his stock is low right now, but again if i'm rudy, i don't know why I wouldn't wait.

    Thinking about it further, it makes me think there must be some financial considerations, I don't know. To me it just seems like you're making the team even less financially flexible, which i do think is an issue.


    I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  5. #325
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I would offer him an extension, and there's no way in hell Rudy's agent can fight for another max contract, because as much as Rudy will be our guy for a long time, he's not worth star money. He's not there, well, not there YET.

    Rudy is right there in terms of star talent, there's no question or discussion on why you try to lock him up in the off-season.

  6. #326
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Oh man. $100 M contract right there
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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  7. #327
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Came across an article by Marc Spears of Yahoo Sports about Rudy Gay.

    It's mostly fluff, but I found this section interesting:

    Really!?!?!? This doesn't make sense to me. Gay's got 17 mill coming to him next year, and a player option of 19 mill the year after. The way you offer Gay an extension is because you think he'll be worth MORE when he becomes a free agent than he is worth NOW. Based on the fact that he is making max money, I don't see how he can be worth more. It's not like coangelo can't offer him max money two years from now, so I don't see what his rush is. Maybe he thinks that Rudy will agree to take a less than max contract since his stock is low right now, but again if i'm rudy, i don't know why I wouldn't wait.

    Thinking about it further, it makes me think there must be some financial considerations, I don't know. To me it just seems like you're making the team even less financially flexible, which i do think is an issue.

    I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.
    LOL! Colangelo still hasn't figured it out. What a dumbass.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  8. #328
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I would offer him an extension, and there's no way in hell Rudy's agent can fight for another max contract, because as much as Rudy will be our guy for a long time, he's not worth star money. He's not there, well, not there YET.
    This is where we diverge in terms of thought. If Coangelo's logic is Rudy isn't a max player; but has the potential to be one, the I should offer him an extension NOW because if I wait another two years, there may be a bunch of other teams that want to offer him max as well, and he may turn down my offer and make slightly less elsewhere, but in a situation that he thinks is better.

    Then there's nothing wrong with that logic, and by all means offer him a contract. That said, doesn't his agent's logic follow like this; Rudy Gay isn't a max level player yet. Even though he got a max level contract before, people are currently saying he was overpaid. Therefore his stock is low right now, so it doesn't make sense unless they are willing to offer Rudy more than what I (his agent) think he will get in free agency. As his agent, I'm confident in his abilities, and MY abilities, so the only way I agree to an extension is if it is for max money.

    To me, and maybe I'm making an assumption that will turn out to be false, but I'm 80% certain that any extension Rudy signs will be for Max money, and I'm 99% sure that Rudy won't sign an extension for anything less.

    The only other reason I can see Coangelo offering the extension is if he's worried that Gay will be offended if doesn't, because other players (Nic Batum?) have had those issues.

    Again, this based on speculation (unnamed source) and I hope it turns out to be false, or that I'm wrong about Coangelo offering a max extension, and/or that Rudy would accept anything less.

    But to confirm, you DO believe that Coangelo will offer LESS than max money and that Rudy is open to signing an extension for less than max money?

    edit:
    another possible justification on Coangelo's part is that either
    1) Someone higher up in the ORG has a RAGING Gay erection, and inking an extension will insure/help insure his 3rd year option is picked up.

    2) By inking a deal with Gay, he feels confident that any new GM/President would have his or her hands tied by the roster, and therefore is confident that ownership won't see like it's worth bringing in somebody new, because they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway.

    Both are cynical outlooks and I'm not saying I think either of this justifications reflects reality, just that they are possible motivations.

    PREDICTION: Rudy Gay and the Raptors won't agree to an extension this off-season UNLESS it's for max money.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu Mar 7th, 2013 at 07:20 AM.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  9. #329
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I have to agree that it's way to early to offer an extension. Especially if you are thinking of offering a max contract.

  10. #330
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    No way he deserves a max money extension, but remember that the newest CBA provision included the right to re-negotiate a deal. Perhaps by extending Gay now, they can restructure his deal so that it is less of a cap hit (similar to what Tom Brady did with the Patriots). If they can sign Gay to an extension that brings his team figure down a few million then the team would gain a bit of flexibility. Now things are different than the NFL, since NBA contracts are already fully guaranteed, but perhaps they can play with the language in ways we don't fully understand yet. The new CBA rules are still brand new, so who knows the full scope of what can and can't be done. If BC is ahead of the curve in this regard, then I'd applaud the move. If BC is just throwing more years/money at a player to show that we have a "franchise" player locked up, then the move is pointless today and should simply wait until closer to the end of the deal.

  11. #331
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As for Gay, this is smart thinking. We don't want to be Boshed again. If he turns down the extension we know what has to be done.
    I just don't have any confidence in Colangelo's ability to learn from past mistakes....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #332
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    If they can negotiate a less-than-max extension, I'd consider it a reasonable move (think ~$13-15 M /year). Otherwise, why would they do so?

  13. #333
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    If they can negotiate a less-than-max extension, I'd consider it a reasonable move (think ~$13-15 M /year). Otherwise, why would they do so?
    Thinking the same thing. Definitely not worth a max deal, but I have a feeling Colangelo will go the distance in order to keep him (see DeMar DeRozan)
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  14. #334
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Thinking the same thing. Definitely not worth a max deal, but I have a feeling Colangelo will go the distance in order to keep him (see DeMar DeRozan)
    That is what pisses me off on DeRozan's extension. There was no way the Raps wouldn't keep him unless they didn't want to match an offer. The Raps held all leverage in keeping DD. In signing him they certainly gained good will but definitely lost flexibility on the trade front.... although it is kind of moot with the trade for Gay.
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  15. #335
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    This is where we diverge in terms of thought. If Coangelo's logic is Rudy isn't a max player; but has the potential to be one, the I should offer him an extension NOW because if I wait another two years, there may be a bunch of other teams that want to offer him max as well, and he may turn down my offer and make slightly less elsewhere, but in a situation that he thinks is better.

    Then there's nothing wrong with that logic, and by all means offer him a contract. That said, doesn't his agent's logic follow like this; Rudy Gay isn't a max level player yet. Even though he got a max level contract before, people are currently saying he was overpaid. Therefore his stock is low right now, so it doesn't make sense unless they are willing to offer Rudy more than what I (his agent) think he will get in free agency. As his agent, I'm confident in his abilities, and MY abilities, so the only way I agree to an extension is if it is for max money.

    To me, and maybe I'm making an assumption that will turn out to be false, but I'm 80% certain that any extension Rudy signs will be for Max money, and I'm 99% sure that Rudy won't sign an extension for anything less.

    The only other reason I can see Coangelo offering the extension is if he's worried that Gay will be offended if doesn't, because other players (Nic Batum?) have had those issues.

    Again, this based on speculation (unnamed source) and I hope it turns out to be false, or that I'm wrong about Coangelo offering a max extension, and/or that Rudy would accept anything less.

    But to confirm, you DO believe that Coangelo will offer LESS than max money and that Rudy is open to signing an extension for less than max money?

    edit:
    another possible justification on Coangelo's part is that either
    1) Someone higher up in the ORG has a RAGING Gay erection, and inking an extension will insure/help insure his 3rd year option is picked up.

    2) By inking a deal with Gay, he feels confident that any new GM/President would have his or her hands tied by the roster, and therefore is confident that ownership won't see like it's worth bringing in somebody new, because they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway.

    Both are cynical outlooks and I'm not saying I think either of this justifications reflects reality, just that they are possible motivations.

    PREDICTION: Rudy Gay and the Raptors won't agree to an extension this off-season UNLESS it's for max money.
    Great post, great insights. I would only add one thing:

    Does Gay turn down 4 years and $50M plus guaranteed?
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #336
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Great post, great insights. I would only add one thing:

    Does Gay turn down 4 years and $50M plus guaranteed?
    I'd call that fair for both parties.

  17. #337
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Great post, great insights. I would only add one thing:

    Does Gay turn down 4 years and $50M plus guaranteed?
    Rudy still has his player option after next year so that should be considered. Given that, a 4 for 50 deal becomes, from Gay's perspective anyways, a 3 for 30 deal.

    If he thinks he can get more than that come 2015 offseason (or in an extension from the Raps in the 2014 season) then he turns it down. I expect he would.

    That said there is alot of value in guaranteed money, but I think Rudy is young enough that he won't be expecting a career ending injury or an injury that would kill a lucrative contract.

    At the very least Rudy's player option gives him plenty of reason to take a risk and wait to see if he can get a better deal.

    I do think thats alot closer to fair value for him as a player though.

  18. #338
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    I could see Rudy take a less than max, guaranteed deal to help the clubs flexibility. He also simply doesnt put up max numbers.
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  19. #339
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    If I were him I wouldn't bother signing until I get a better idea for the direction of the team. Why tie himself up to a bad team that currently shows no plans for success when he's already got himself a max contract? He can afford to sign somewhere else for a bit less money if there is an opportunity to win.

  20. #340
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    I think it's hard to answer the question "Has Rudy Gay earned an extension" right now, since we have no idea what that extension will look like (all assuming the rumor is true to begin with).

    Here are some of my thoughts...

    - Rudy Gay is a great player, but not a max-player... I'd be happy with an extension averaging even as much as $15M per season (much more reasonable than his $17.9M next season and $19.3M the following season)

    - If BC can lock him up long-term now, it would signal to current players (and potential free agents) that Toronto is capable of keeping talented players and that they choose to be in Toronto... if he can get Gay for better value than his current deal, even better (also would make the trade look that much better, since he's not just an overpaid 2.5 year rental)

    - Ideally re-signing Gay would almost guarantee Lowry would re-sign, again being a solid sign for the franchise and making the Lowry trade look that much better (and that would be 2 starters signed for long-term; 3 if you include Valanciunas and 4 if BC has no plans to trade DeRozan)

    - Clearing up the uncertainty around 2 key players (Gay & Lowry) makes it much easier for BC to figure out his plan and target players via trade/free agency, since he will have so many guys/positions locked-up

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