View Poll Results: Should Dwane Casey be fired?

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    19 44.19%
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Thread: Another 4th quarter collapse. Coaching is a major problem.

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    I've been frustrated with the rotations and sub-patterns BUT I voted to keep Dwane Casey.

    We NEED to fire Bryan Collangelo FIRST. Let the new GM have a year with Casey.....then he can decide if Casey is the coach that we need to move forward with.

    I must admit that my only issues with Dwane Casey has been his stubborness to play AB "come hell or high water" and his other sub patterns such as leaving in the bench too long/hockey lineups/Not playing JV in crunch time.

    I'm willing to give Casey the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his handling of the rookies (He knows much more than we do and Demar and Ed have both improved greatly under Casey's leadership). I also understand his preference to play AA over Ross because lets be honest.....AA is better than Ross at THIS moment (potential aside). I have no doubt that Ross will end up being a better player....but he needs to put in the work over the summer and I hope he learnt what it takes from watching AA steal his minutes.

    I actually like Dwane Casey.....This team always seems to play HARD for him. I just wish he would work on the above "issues" because he can be an excellent head coach for us. He definitely NEEDS an offensive minded assistant coach to help him run plays in crunch time so that we don't continue to lose games in the 4th (when defences tighten up).

    Overall I think we should be asking for Bryan's head on a platter. Casey deserves the chance to coach a team with a competent GM running the show (BC always seems to have holes in his rosters). A head coach can only do so much with the talent he's given!! We have Rudy, now we need a GM who can clean up the mess BC has created and deal with the AB situation.

    I'm looking forward to the next few months to see what happens.

  2. #82
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Last offseason Coach Casey was above all criticism. Everything he touched turned to gold, he was one of the key reasons the team would improve and HE was the team's culture.

    Now the Raptors world has swung upside down. Casey shouldn't be a head coach, he can't coach certain aspects of the game, his decisions are the reason the Raptors lost games X, Y and Z, and its time he's replaced.

    Haven't we heard this story before? I don't know, say twice previously in the last 7 seasons?

    Unfortunately for Casey (and fans), he's had a GM who has done a poor job identifying talent and building a team in general. Leaving Coach Casey in a terribly ackward spot - building certain individuals trade value, using players to justify intended purposes even if its not in the teams best interest, while also winning games, while also trying to build for the future, while playing a style of game that does not at all mesh with his.
    That this discussion is even taking place should be yet another enourmous smack in the face for Colangelo.
    Casey is nothing more than a symptom of Colangelo's short sighted, bait and switch, "I'll sell you gelato but give you luke warm cream" method of ego preserving team building.

    Casey was brought in because Colangelo was building around Bargnani, thought to imitate the Dallas Mavericks, and wanted to convince a sour fan base that yes he knew and cared about defense. Going into this season Colangelo had not only convinced himself he had accomplished much of the above (which was ridiculous given the small sample of 1) Bargnani 2) a single shortened season 3) how poor Toronto's real results were) but he could add a Casey unfriendly Phoenix north edge to the team. All this while no longer being able to contain his waiting under the surface 'I'll prove it was me and not daddy' old self.

    The result - this team was trying to simultaneously be (through management, coaches, and players)

    -the championship Dallas Mavericks (Colangelo's pseudo-plan)
    -the run and gun Suns (Colangelo's prefered style)
    -the 2005x dynansty Detroit Pistons (Casey's prefered style)

    without the personnel or talent to do any of them. Now this team is sitting on a 2007 Washington Wizards-esq roster. A rather random mix of overpayed young and veteran talent (and untalented alike) trying to be all things at once but have problems being anything at once.


    Ok so that may be a bit ranty and confusing but I'll try and sum up.

    Colangelo (or hopefully a new GM) needs to make a decision. Do they want to win now or do they want to rebuild?

    If the plan is to win now, and are willing to trade away guys like Val and Ross to add quality veterans, with a slow paced defensive focus - Casey is the man for the job

    If the plan is to do pretty much anything else (rebuild, high octane offense etc) - Casey is not the man for the job

    If the plan is to do continue down the path the team has, with an ever shifting focus, quick reaction moves, and ego driven decisions - it doesn't matter who the coach is.
    + 1

    I agree with this! Let's NOT lose sight of the real issue here folks!

    Casey needs a competent GM because we ALL see what he can do with a bunch of scrubs. The problem has always been AB NOT fitting into Casey's style of play. Yet, Casey had to play him to boost his value or to validate BC's weird obsession with Bargs.

    BC is obviously too attached to the guy or he would've noticed that AB is NOT a winning player because he cannot do the "little things" that a team needs to win consistently UNLESS he's super motivated (which is not very often - 13 games??).

    Funny thing is I like BC (his swagger and confidence). I have no doubt he could sell me a car and a house (quite easily). I work in sales and I know a good sales guy when i hear/see one. BUT we can't be fooled this time around. Decline the option on his last year and MOVE ON. We need a new era of Raptors Basketball.

  3. #83
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    It hasn't been long enough that an attachment could have developed. It was not talked about much then but I think Mitchell's departure did cause some players to be disheartened.
    You can't fire a coach after season 2. season 1 was good by all standards. I think he does need severe help on the offensive end though.
    @RavNation

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I still have no voted.

    I am unsure.

    I was really impressed with what Casey did last season -accountability, getting guys to buy in, one of the hardest working teams in the league, upper half of defense and rebounding for the first time in years.

    Unfortunately this season, everything went out the door from above but to make matters worse the talent got better but the results did not match.

    Honestly, to me, it feels like last year was a total waste. Had last year been this year... wow. If the Raps played as they did this season last year, last year would have brought in one of the more desired players through the draft..... ahhhh, screw it, I'm not playing coulda, shoulda, woulda.

    As for this year: come hell or high water, refusal to play ED early, refusal to play JV significant despite being one of best players on team, crushing TR progress and confidence with inconsistent opportunities and putting in situations to fail (i.e. playing with AA and expecting him to be effective), horrible substitutions, horrible execution, horrible strategy and play calilng. Ugh.

    I would have liked last year to have been a step back and this year to be 2 steps forward versus a step forward last year and a step back this season.

    I guess if I gave Bargnani 6 years I can give Casey a third..... but I'd love to get a proven winning coach.... for once.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  6. #85
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    but I'd love to get a proven winning coach.... for once.

    When your team is about to tank you fire the great coach because they don't want or deserve to get the Ls added to their career record. But the Jay Triano's of the world would love the opportunity to prove themselves. So you get teachers molding young players and collecting losses. When you sense you are about to climb the ranks you hire a coach with some pedigree. You play your close to 500 basketball and that coach either proves himself OR the upper echelon of coaches start looking at your team like it could be worth coaching. With this current roster and record if we called up Phil Jackson and said "hey buddy, ten million a year and influence on all basketball matters". He would very kindly tell us to hoop our heads. This is why I say next year is the test. You will have your roster stability, your year of additional growth and the playoffs should not be out of reach. With the amount of injuries, illness and surgeries, I think (but am too lazy to check) we have the greatest number of differing starting 5s in the league.

    NEXT year is the make or break year for him. Gay and Lowry won't stay on a team that isn't trending upwards.

  7. #86
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As for this year: come hell or high water, refusal to play ED early, refusal to play JV significant despite being one of best players on team, crushing TR progress and confidence with inconsistent opportunities and putting in situations to fail (i.e. playing with AA and expecting him to be effective), horrible substitutions, horrible execution, horrible strategy and play calilng. Ugh.
    Who on this roster is suited to help a guy like Ross get is offence going? Lowry is the starting PG and he isn't the best of getting others going. Jose was the only player who could do that but they moved him (rightly so) but didn't bring in a facilitator as the back-up. There isn't a single pass-first player on this roster who can initialize the offence and help guys like Ross develop. That is why I'd like to see more of Telfair and less of Lucas. Telfair has no future with the team, but he can at least help a guy who does.

    I really don't think you can fire Casey when he has had 2 seasons. Season 1 was the lock-out shortened season. Season 2 had a major mid-season trade. You need to give the guy a chance with this roster before you write him off. BC needs to go though. He's had far too long to not put more talent on this roster.

  8. #87
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    Does anyone know the identity of this team. If a basketball fan dropped in from say, Europe and asked what the finer points of the team style was...how would one describe this? Last year I saw a commitment to defense...not so this season. The team is now capped out (nearly) and no #1 in the next draft possibly and just treading water as another lower echelon team. Rather than Casey going at this time I'd rather a move be made at the top so there is a vision about direction that of course meshes with the personnel. The decision on Casey should be left to the new GM. I am not sure Stefanski is the answer...he seems like a network type of guy.

  9. #88
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    I don't think coaching is the main (or even one of the main) problems with this team. I don't think Casey is Phil Jackson but he isn't a total putz either. It's like when everyone wanted Triano fired and thought having a defensive-minded coach like Casey in charge would improve the team. That's proven to be false. As I said, when Triano was fired, he wasn't the problem. Neither was Mitchell. The problem is much bigger.

    Now, I am on record as wanting to clean house from the GM to the mop kids, so, I'm certainly on board with washing the coaching staff but firing Casey is absolutely pointless without first addressing all the other issues with management, vision, direction, planning, roster construction, cap management, player development, drafting, etc. Until that stuff is fixed (i.e. Colangelo and the entire front office is axed), no other changes are going to matter much.

  10. #89
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    Quote YYZ wrote: View Post
    You can't fire a coach after season 2. season 1 was good by all standards. I think he does need severe help on the offensive end though.
    I'd agree if there was progress. What's happened is that the team has regressed even in defence, supposedly Casey's strength. Offensively as you yourself have stated, there needs to be improvement.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  11. #90
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    my issue with casey is if hes not doing what he was brought in for, then why is he here?
    last year he was brought in to shape our team like the mavs which i still believe he didnt have that much influence on. he had a team full of great defensive players/vets which would probably be a top 10 defense if dantoni were coaching them. he was also meant to use bargnani in a similar fashion as dirk which we saw worked at the beginning of last year.

    coming out this year he didnt utilize bargnani properly and was a big influence on bargs regression imo.(used him as nothing more than a floor spacer a lot of the time)
    last year we were happy because we were tanking which the majority wanted, while keeping games close.

    this year there was the expectation of playoffs and some of those close games were supposed to turn into wins. now this year we realize that he just sucks at coaching an offense and despite having more talent, doesnt make the right moves to get a w.

    we are now stuck as a team with no identity(bad defense), mediorce iso offense and I dont think anybody has any idea of what kind of team we are moving towards.

    we see this every other night when we just decide to play our opponents style and hope for the best, when more often then not we wont beat a team at their own game.

    its clear our strength isnt going to be defense so we need to get away from that mind set and stop playing guys in uncomfortable situations. we need a proven 2-way coach who can utilize our athleticism properly. a team with lowry,derozan,ross,gay,amir,jv should not be the worst in the league in fast break points

  12. #91
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    is there a rule against Head Coaching by committee?
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  13. #92
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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    is there a rule against Head Coaching by committee?
    I think you need to have a clear-cut leader, in order for them to establish authority over the team. In previous threads the idea has been discussed to take a more NFL-style approach to coaching, where you have an all-encompassing head coach to be the main strategist/motivator/GM-liaison, with dedicated offensive & defensive coordinators. I think it would work very well if coaches could swallow their ego. Even just a 2 coach system would work, where the head coach is also one of the coordinators, allowing a dedicated assistant coach run the other end.

  14. #93
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    why would we fire casey? Even if we had greg popovich, we still wouldn't get out of the first round with this talent, let alone compete for a championship. Keeping in mind, we erase whatever progress casey has brought to the team, we should wait one more year, at least he has the respect of the players.

  15. #94
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    If Dwayne Casey can't see that Rudy Gay jacking up 26 shots a game and scoring 17 points while driving into double teams and turning the ball over in crucial minutes in the 4th is not good for this team then he has no business being our head coach. Rudy Gay is an overhyped player many people think is a star, but the only star like thing about him is how much he gets paid and his highlight reel. Casey either needs to rein him in and get him playing to his potential (good luck with that; 7 years in the league and we are still talking about potential ala Bargnani) or we need to get a coach who will have the guts to do it.

  16. #95
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    why would we fire casey? Even if we had greg popovich, we still wouldn't get out of the first round with this talent, let alone compete for a championship. Keeping in mind, we erase whatever progress casey has brought to the team, we should wait one more year, at least he has the respect of the players.
    Not even close to true. We have one of the more talented wing rotations in the entire league. Look at the nuggets, we arguably have more talent then them but they are a pretty damn good team.

  17. #96
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    why would we fire casey? Even if we had greg popovich, we still wouldn't get out of the first round with this talent, let alone compete for a championship. Keeping in mind, we erase whatever progress casey has brought to the team, we should wait one more year, at least he has the respect of the players.
    You may be right. I have no sweet clue to be honest.

    But I do love watching San Antonio move the basketball on offense.

    If only the Raptors.....
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #97
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    why would we fire casey? Even if we had greg popovich, we still wouldn't get out of the first round with this talent, let alone compete for a championship.
    That's one way of looking at it. Another way is as follows:- if we had a different Coach we probably would have been in line to at least make the play-offs. I believe Casey is responsible for quite a few of the losses. A safe alternative is to promote one of the assistants to Head Coach.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  19. #98
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    My problem is Casey's minutes distribution & JV/Ross development. On average, I'd like to see something like this: Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Amir, JV starting @ 35MPG. Bargs @ 26MPG (until he's traded), spelling off JV/Amir. Ross @ 26MPG, spelling off Gay/Derozan. Either Lucas or Telfair, splitting 13MPG. Everybody else (especially AA) nailed to the bench, except for injuries and foul trouble. That's it. A 9/10 man rotation with a crystal clear pecking order. Forget about trying to match up big/small. The starting lineup is athletic enough to compete with any small lineup and tough enough to compete with any big lineup.

  20. #99
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Golden you forgot Fields hes earned his way into rotation imo.

  21. #100
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    Kept asking myself this all day after the game

    "Self? Why are we using Aaron Gray and Bargs to trap Kobe Bryant at the top of the 3 point line? And why is Alan Anderson worrying about help d on Steve Nash when hes guarding one of the top 5 players in the league? O ya, thats right, our coach is an idiot...ok."

    #LETSGOBLUEJAYS

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