View Poll Results: Should Dwane Casey be fired?

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Thread: Another 4th quarter collapse. Coaching is a major problem.

  1. #21
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    The only way I would endorse Casey getting the axe is if Sloan takes his place. I love everything about Jerry Sloan

  2. #22
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    Casey could be taking the long view with the rooks.

    JV is learning the hard lesson that controlling fouls = more time to make an impact.

    Ross is learning that bad shot selection = 5 minutes of playing time.

    Ross hasn't been the same since the week before the dunk contest
    +1 Sometimes raps fans make me laugh. No matter what you guys gotta blame someone rather than just lookin at what happened? Kobe played un conscience in the 4th quarter sometimes great players do that. AA's D was stifling on a few of those 3s and dude still made it. Lol @ Landry's D looked better? Give me a break cuz I'm sure you could assess that in the short time he was on the floor. AA posting up Jodie was the best available option if you looked at the personal on the floor and who was guarding who easily the mismatch. FOUL TROUBLE BENCHED JV. Not the coach. He let JV play through it in the first half ( or were any of you even watching that), and what happened? He picked up his 3rd. JV is rookie, and this is how you deal with rookies next year I'm sure he'll just let him play through a lot more, but right now the coach has to put ownness on the player.

    All of you talk about his mismanagement of our line ups. But take a good look this dudes had so many different players inserted in and out with injuries and trades that most coaches would struggle with what to do. With no roster stability there's no line up stability. I do agree he kept the bench out a little too long, and coulda gave JV another shot but realistically he wouldve fouled in regulation hence making all your arguments invalid. Sure give the rookie a shot down the stretch to help us win a game that's close ? Or go with your vets who will probably make better decisions.

    Kobe misses 1 shot, we win the game you guys shut up. Sometimes you can't stop great players such is life..anyone calling Monta Williams a shitty coach cuz kobe evaporated a 30 pt lead?

    Give your heads a shake.

  3. #23
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Casey could be taking the long view with the rooks.

    JV is learning the hard lesson that controlling fouls = more time to make an impact.

    Ross is learning that bad shot selection = 5 minutes of playing time.

    Ross hasn't been the same since the week before the dunk contest
    +1

    Quote C-Low wrote: View Post
    +1 Sometimes raps fans make me laugh. No matter what you guys gotta blame someone rather than just lookin at what happened? Kobe played un conscience in the 4th quarter sometimes great players do that. AA's D was stifling on a few of those 3s and dude still made it. Lol @ Landry's D looked better? Give me a break cuz I'm sure you could assess that in the short time he was on the floor. AA posting up Jodie was the best available option if you looked at the personal on the floor and who was guarding who easily the mismatch. FOUL TROUBLE BENCHED JV. Not the coach. He let JV play through it in the first half ( or were any of you even watching that), and what happened? He picked up his 3rd. JV is rookie, and this is how you deal with rookies next year I'm sure he'll just let him play through a lot more, but right now the coach has to put ownness on the player.

    All of you talk about his mismanagement of our line ups. But take a good look this dudes had so many different players inserted in and out with injuries and trades that most coaches would struggle with what to do. With no roster stability there's no line up stability. I do agree he kept the bench out a little too long, and coulda gave JV another shot but realistically he wouldve fouled in regulation hence making all your arguments invalid. Sure give the rookie a shot down the stretch to help us win a game that's close ? Or go with your vets who will probably make better decisions.

    Kobe misses 1 shot, we win the game you guys shut up. Sometimes you can't stop great players such is life..anyone calling Monta Williams a shitty coach cuz kobe evaporated a 30 pt lead?

    Give your heads a shake.
    +1

    I would add that if one feels the need to place blame, which many posters here need, jumping on Casey is nothing short of laughable when you look at the 7/26, 6 TO game from the guy who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door in the 4th or OT.
    Last edited by p00ka; Sat Mar 9th, 2013 at 03:42 PM.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote C-Low wrote: View Post
    +1 Sometimes raps fans make me laugh. No matter what you guys gotta blame someone rather than just lookin at what happened? Kobe played un conscience in the 4th quarter sometimes great players do that. AA's D was stifling on a few of those 3s and dude still made it. Lol @ Landry's D looked better? Give me a break cuz I'm sure you could assess that in the short time he was on the floor. AA posting up Jodie was the best available option if you looked at the personal on the floor and who was guarding who easily the mismatch. FOUL TROUBLE BENCHED JV. Not the coach. He let JV play through it in the first half ( or were any of you even watching that), and what happened? He picked up his 3rd. JV is rookie, and this is how you deal with rookies next year I'm sure he'll just let him play through a lot more, but right now the coach has to put ownness on the player.

    All of you talk about his mismanagement of our line ups. But take a good look this dudes had so many different players inserted in and out with injuries and trades that most coaches would struggle with what to do. With no roster stability there's no line up stability. I do agree he kept the bench out a little too long, and coulda gave JV another shot but realistically he wouldve fouled in regulation hence making all your arguments invalid. Sure give the rookie a shot down the stretch to help us win a game that's close ? Or go with your vets who will probably make better decisions.

    Kobe misses 1 shot, we win the game you guys shut up. Sometimes you can't stop great players such is life..anyone calling Monta Williams a shitty coach cuz kobe evaporated a 30 pt lead?

    Give your heads a shake.
    Huge +1 fans dont know how lucky they are to have Casey coaching this squad. Kobe hit those shots its what big time players do, Raptors outplayed them all night, to fans Coach Casey will never be credited for the good he does and thats just fucked up.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    The only way I would endorse Casey getting the axe is if Sloan takes his place. I love everything about Jerry Sloan
    At the moment I would take any experienced NBA coach - SVG, JVG... not only Sloan. We lost so much games in the 4th and Casey did no conclusions. If we would won 50% of that games, Raptors would have been near .500 or even little above this mark... We have a young team but all of our starters gets on court 5 mins left to the 4th quarter, before that the bench usually have enough time to complicate our situation by playing against full-strength opponents, and that happens again and again and again, not mentioning that DC trusts Gray over JV. Yes, Gray is quite good on post defence and rebounding, but it's hard to watch him defending against pick and rolls and changing players on defence...
    Last edited by japetas; Sat Mar 9th, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
    (Sorry for poor English )

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Ladies and Gentlemen: Aaron Fucking Gray.



    EDIT: So having rewatched this a few times, if you look closely you can actually see Casey yell at Gray to run out and double Kobe. So I guess we're talking about Gray's ineptitude + Casey's stupidity, rather than both of those falling on Gray.

    Still tho.
    Last edited by themasao; Sat Mar 9th, 2013 at 04:33 PM.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote C-Low wrote: View Post
    +1 Sometimes raps fans make me laugh. No matter what you guys gotta blame someone rather than just lookin at what happened? Kobe played un conscience in the 4th quarter sometimes great players do that. AA's D was stifling on a few of those 3s and dude still made it. Lol @ Landry's D looked better? Give me a break cuz I'm sure you could assess that in the short time he was on the floor. AA posting up Jodie was the best available option if you looked at the personal on the floor and who was guarding who easily the mismatch. FOUL TROUBLE BENCHED JV. Not the coach. He let JV play through it in the first half ( or were any of you even watching that), and what happened? He picked up his 3rd. JV is rookie, and this is how you deal with rookies next year I'm sure he'll just let him play through a lot more, but right now the coach has to put ownness on the player.

    All of you talk about his mismanagement of our line ups. But take a good look this dudes had so many different players inserted in and out with injuries and trades that most coaches would struggle with what to do. With no roster stability there's no line up stability. I do agree he kept the bench out a little too long, and coulda gave JV another shot but realistically he wouldve fouled in regulation hence making all your arguments invalid. Sure give the rookie a shot down the stretch to help us win a game that's close ? Or go with your vets who will probably make better decisions.

    Kobe misses 1 shot, we win the game you guys shut up. Sometimes you can't stop great players such is life..anyone calling Monta Williams a shitty coach cuz kobe evaporated a 30 pt lead?

    Give your heads a shake.
    I am shaking my head........ at how anyone could justify bringing Gray out in the 4th and overtime over JV. The foul argument is IRRELEVANT. I can't emphasize this enough: if the point of benching JV is to avoid having him foul out of the game then WHY does he never again enter the game???.

    This is what I don't get -- JV will never have to foul out, cause Casey effectively 'fouls him out' by PERMA-benching him after the 3rd quarter.

    Aron Gray was single-handedly (I guess you have to give an assist to DC) responsible for not only the Kobe go ahead dunk (see above) but the wide open Nash 3 pointer that tied the game in OT.

    Aron Gray's ineptitude is rivaled only by his stupidity (he attempting to double Kobe beyond the arc -- I'll pause while you let that digest...) And his stupidity is rivaled only by his Dwane Casey's.

    Guys -- forget Jerry Sloan; I'd settle for the water-boy at this point.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    I am shaking my head........ at how anyone could justify bringing Gray out in the 4th and overtime over JV. The foul argument is IRRELEVANT. I can't emphasize this enough: if the point of benching JV is to avoid having him foul out of the game then WHY does he never again enter the game???.

    This is what I don't get -- JV will never have to foul out, cause Casey effectively 'fouls him out' by PERMA-benching him after the 3rd quarter.

    Aron Gray was single-handedly (I guess you have to give an assist to DC) responsible for not only the Kobe go ahead dunk (see above) but the wide open Nash 3 pointer that tied the game in OT.

    Aron Gray's ineptitude is rivaled only by his stupidity (he attempting to double Kobe beyond the arc -- I'll pause while you let that digest...) And his stupidity is rivaled only by his Dwane Casey's.

    Guys -- forget Jerry Sloan; I'd settle for the water-boy at this point.
    +1

    It's comical really. I know Casey trusts his veteran players like Gray/Anderson. But the Raps are now 15 games under .500. So obviously it's NOT WORKING. It's time to let that go. WAKE UP.

    The focus of the season for the Raps now since they're pretty much out of the race is to develop TR and JV. These 2 should play more. Ross not getting any playing time last night was a joke. JV only playing 17mins was a bigger joke. The guy was playing so well. 12pts and 6rbs and was holding his own against Howard.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    +1

    It's comical really. I know Casey trusts his veteran players like Gray/Anderson. But the Raps are now 15 games under .500. So obviously it's NOT WORKING. It's time to let that go. WAKE UP.

    The focus of the season for the Raps now since they're pretty much out of the race is to develop TR and JV. These 2 should play more. Ross not getting any playing time last night was a joke. JV only playing 17mins was a bigger joke. The guy was playing so well. 12pts and 6rbs and was holding his own against Howard.
    Yep. The irony of the whole "he's our guy -- we've got to go with our guy" justification that Casey regularly throws out to explain poor shot/minute allocation kills me.

    If you reward bad play with more minutes and more shots, and condemn hustle and domination (12 and 6 in 17 min!?!?! can you ask for more???) to the bench. What kind of message do you expect to send to the FUTURE OF YOUR FRANCHISE.


    My neck hurts form shaking my head so much.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Someone needs to redub this "bench JV again"

    "Bench JV again, I dare you; I double dare you mothafucka. Does JV look like a bitch?"


  11. #31
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    Yep. The irony of the whole "he's our guy -- we've got to go with our guy" justification that Casey regularly throws out to explain poor shot/minute allocation kills me.

    If you reward bad play with more minutes and more shots, and condemn hustle and domination (12 and 6 in 17 min!?!?! can you ask for more???) to the bench. What kind of message do you expect to send to the FUTURE OF YOUR FRANCHISE.


    My neck hurts form shaking my head so much.
    Oh, I don't know. Maybe that a pace of 4 fouls in 17 minutes early in the game is going to get worse when the opposition ramps up their game in the 4th, so STOP fouling at that pace because we'd like to be able to count on you down the stretch in the future? Playing him regardless of his fouling problems teaches him what for the future?

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Fouls are a bullshit excuse. A rookie also needs to learn to play with fouls. And you know, it's easier to learn not to commit them when you get more experience. JV has actually only fouled out of one game, despite his propensity to get in early foul trouble. He has found a way to play big minutes with foul trouble several times, while he's also had some games where he tallies them up quickly and gets nailed to the bench. So clearly, Casey isn't really incorporating that into the logic. It seems pretty arbitrary to me when he's deciding to play JV.

    Really, does it make sense to you, with one player injured, another fouled out, and the 3rd guy clearly the worst big on the night by far for either team (Gray), that he opts to play said worst player of the night instead of a rookie who still has 2 fouls to give and was the most effective player they had against Howard? Just to teach him a lesson about early fouls? When at least one, if not two of those calls were total garbage, too... It wasn't fouls keeping him out of the game, it was Casey. It would be a better lesson to make him play with the fouls and see if he can stay in the game.

    *FWIW, JV's fouling rate is almost exactly the same as Amir, Casey's favorite big (not knocking Amir obviously or anything, just putting it out there to compare)
    JV: 2.9 fpg in 21.0 mpg, 1 foul every 7.2 minutes
    Amir: 3.9 fpg in 27.7 mpg, 1 foul every 7.1 minutes

    Obviously I'm not suggesting he should be played over Amir...but that fouls are clearly shit-poor logic. Other mistakes? Sure, maybe, he is after all a rookie...but again, you have to give young players a chance to play through mistakes. You can't learn much watching from the bench
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 9th, 2013 at 05:48 PM.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    The problem with the logic of "he's trying to hammer home lessons to the rooks", is that he doesn't hold the rest of the team to the same standards. Holding rookies to a high standard based on the fact that you expect them to meet it in the future should also mean that the players you do decide to play meet that higher standard (or something close to it)....I can't say that of AA, or Gray, or Bargs, or when Casey ran other guys out for far too long like Butler last season and Pietrus this year....How many games too many did Pietrus play before he was benched?? Like 5? Casey has a problem with playing vets.

    *Heck, he doesn't even do that with his key players either. He never uses the game as a teaching moment for Gay for taking too many 3s, or Demar for trapping himself on the baseline to take bad fadeaways, or Gray for answering the age old question...what happens when an unstoppable force (Kobe) meets an immovable object (Gray)? It doesn't, the force easily goes around the object. Ok, I just threw that last one in there for fun. But seriously, it's like the key guys/vets I guess only get called out in video sessions, whereas JV, Ross, and Ed when he was here get disciplined during games by getting quick hooks for every mistake. That is messed up.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 9th, 2013 at 06:40 PM.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The problem with the logic of "he's trying to hammer home lessons to the rooks", is that he doesn't hold the rest of the team to the same standards. Holding rookies to a high standard based on the fact that you expect them to meet it in the future should also mean that the players you do decide to play meet that higher standard (or something close to it)....I can't say that of AA, or Gray, or Bargs, or when Casey ran other guys out for far too long like Butler last season and Pietrus this year....How many games too many did Pietrus play before he was benched?? Like 5? Casey has a problem with playing vets.
    Preach!

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    Ladies and Gentlemen: Aaron Fucking Gray.



    EDIT: So having rewatched this a few times, if you look closely you can actually see Casey yell at Gray to run out and double Kobe. So I guess we're talking about Gray's ineptitude + Casey's stupidity, rather than both of those falling on Gray.

    Still tho.
    One thing's for sure: Val would not have played it that way.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFan4Life wrote: View Post
    I agree with most of the things you said but AA was playing pretty efficient down the stretch. The defence on Kobe wasn't really a prob, you couldn't defend him better than AA was defending him but he just hit the shots anyways. Other than that I agree with everything, especially about Gay. He should have been benched after all the retarded decisions he was making, not attemping the last FG of the game.
    I'm starting to hate AA with a passion. His D is overrated and he chucks shots like he's the next MJ, i'd rather have Landry Fields guarding Kobe. The dude doesn't think on offense too often, he gets the ball and doesn't see anything but the rim.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I'm starting to hate AA with a passion. His D is overrated and he chucks shots like he's the next MJ, i'd rather have Landry Fields guarding Kobe. The dude doesn't think on offense too often, he gets the ball and doesn't see anything but the rim.
    I've been saying for a week or two now that Alan Anderson must be the second coming of MJ, and Casey sees it but we don't...he's just waiting to be unleashed, in Casey's eyes.

    Seriously though, I don't know how anyone can not be upset with a coach who calls plays for Alan Anderson down the stretch of a close game. People are saying "Kobe just won it"...well fuck, maybe, but one thing is for sure, if it's Kobe vs. AA, you're not going to win. I don't care if you're trying to exploit a matchup...LA was clearly ok giving up the Meeks-AA matchup, because AA is a shit scorer in actuality who pads his stats by chucking lots of 3s. He's never going to score consistently going one on one. Do I think Casey is the worst coach? no. But day by day, I'm starting to think that he might be very wrong for this roster. I don't expect him to get fired, but I do expect he'll be under pressure right from the start of next season.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Mar 9th, 2013 at 06:52 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    He never plays in the 4th, so how can he not trust him? Playoffs are not happening this year unfortunately, so I wanna see as much of Ross and JV as I can.

    I think Casey is trying to save his job by winning games, and BC probably has a say in who he wants to see out there to save his job as well. They were all talking playoffs or bust essentially. They made their bed and shat in it.
    MLSE needs to clean the house and kick BC and DC out. We need a real GM and a real coach, i wish we had signed Rick Adelman instead

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    +1

    It's comical really. I know Casey trusts his veteran players like Gray/Anderson. But the Raps are now 15 games under .500. So obviously it's NOT WORKING. It's time to let that go. WAKE UP.

    The focus of the season for the Raps now since they're pretty much out of the race is to develop TR and JV. These 2 should play more. Ross not getting any playing time last night was a joke. JV only playing 17mins was a bigger joke. The guy was playing so well. 12pts and 6rbs and was holding his own against Howard.
    Forget about Val being a rookie; between his Euroleague and Lithuanian national team play he probably has way more experience in big game, pressure situations. Gray's only ever been a scrub in the NBA; he doesn't know anything about crunch time. And it showed last night.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    +1

    It's comical really. I know Casey trusts his veteran players like Gray/Anderson. But the Raps are now 15 games under .500. So obviously it's NOT WORKING. It's time to let that go. WAKE UP.

    The focus of the season for the Raps now since they're pretty much out of the race is to develop TR and JV. These 2 should play more. Ross not getting any playing time last night was a joke. JV only playing 17mins was a bigger joke. The guy was playing so well. 12pts and 6rbs and was holding his own against Howard.
    Casey is just stupid. AA and Gray are complete scrubs, i don't give a shit if they are veterans. You can only justify playing veterans if they have real nba experience and have won at a high level not bench warming scrubs. BC and DC both need to get their ass's kicked out, we need a complete front office overhaul. This is becoming embarrassing

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