View Poll Results: Tweak, Sweep or Tw-eep.

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  • TWEAK(minor changes)

    20 55.56%
  • SWEEP(major changes)

    6 16.67%
  • TW-EEP(minor nor major)

    9 25.00%
  • TANK

    4 11.11%
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Thread: Tweak, Sweep or Tw-eep

  1. #21
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I'm unclear on what significant means.

    *Not even going to touch what tweeping means...
    By 'significant' I mean 'serious contender'. Tw-eep is made up. Just combined 'tweak' and 'sweep' meaning neither small nor major changes.
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  2. #22
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    By 'significant' I mean 'serious contender'. Tw-eep is made up. Just combined 'tweak' and 'sweep' meaning neither small nor major changes.
    I was confused too... if there aren't any major changes or minor changes, isn't that just no changes and keeping the team as is?

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    The odds of Gay improving any "chunks" at this point is unlikely. He has been in the league long enough and is technically entering his prime.

    I also think the odds of Demar becoming a 40%+ 3PT shooter is extremely unlikely.

    Milsap would be great on the team, like another Amir who can shoot, but the solution has to come from Ross being more of a consistent shooter during the year.
    I'm not looking for huge improvements.... just a return to his 2010-2011 self.

    He was playing some great ball prior to his shoulder injury in February 2011. The Grizz were also playing like one of the top teams in the league prior to his injury from early December onwards.

    Come on McKechnie, earn your $$!
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  4. #24
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was confused too... if there aren't any major changes or minor changes, isn't that just no changes and keeping the team as is?
    I'm sorry there's been confusion. The team 'as is', would probably make the play-offs, probably not. I mean experts would probably rank the team anywhere between 7th and 10th in the East. A significant team or a serious contender would be built to definitely make the play-offs and even be good enough to go to the 2nd round. At least on paper. I'll be very surprised if BC and Co. are not planning on doing that next year.
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  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Ok, I voted tweak, and I will explain.

    I think a sweep is either done with the intention of tanking, or the intention of gutting your team to get a legit franchise player. If the Raps do the former, well than it's the same option as tanking. If they do the latter, it may put them on a more steady path to building a contender, but likely will create so many holes that they will take a couple of seasons to plug them anyway even if they are a playoff team. So it's not an option in the short term with this roster.

    Basically, I see a tweak as the only realistic option with this current roster. I also do not think they will be a serious contender. It basically got my vote by default as being the only thing I believe has a remote chance of working out so well in the short term. They would have to turn a BArgs trade into something unbelievably beneficial, and/or maybe have the same luck with their MLE and end of bench signings. This team will ikely be a playoff team, but they will not be able to be contenders. Maybe a tweak will work out miraculously for the next couple of years though....I don't think anything else will, or is feasible, in order to make the team contenders.

    Definitions I use are based primarily on shedding players not acquiring them:
    Sweep = losing 2 or 3 starters and maybe more in terms of key bench players to try and get a major talent upgrade, likely just one or two players, one being a franchise player type (or repeat all-star in prime)
    Tweak = losing one starter, or maybe a couple of key rotation players. Talent coming back uncertain, mostly depending on fit working out, or health being maintained, or fulfilling potential...
    Tweep = Tweak in roster change, but a sweep talent-wise??? like if Bargs and John Lucas turned into one of the top PFs (West, Millsap, Smith) available? To me this option is either a fairy tale, or just a tweak that works out beyond expectations, so I voted tweak.
    Tank = sweeping change with the intent of losing...not even going to try and turn players into an all-star/franchise type.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 11th, 2013 at 05:39 PM.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    we need to sweep the bench cept for Ross and Telly

  7. #27
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post

    I think a sweep is either done with the intention of tanking, or the intention of gutting your team to get a legit franchise player.
    I didn't mean 'sweep' to be tanking but I see how it could mean that as well. The best example I can give is the team that ended up the Atlantic champions in BC's 1st year. If I remember correctly, only 4 players from the previous year were retained. A complete make-over(almost) resulted in a winner and eventually a division title.

    It's highly unlikely that will be done again though. Considering the present pieces have been put together by BC, tweaking is most probably what's going to take place. However with some creativity and risky trades, I think it is possible to be more than a mere 1st round play-off team. A Coaching change will help a great deal.

    A complete sweep can't be ruled out if BC is fired.
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  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I didn't mean 'sweep' to be tanking but I see how it could mean that as well. The best example I can give is the team that ended up the Atlantic champions in BC's 1st year. If I remember correctly, only 4 players from the previous year were retained. A complete make-over(almost) resulted in a winner and eventually a division title.

    It's highly unlikely that will be done again though. Considering the present pieces have been put together by BC, tweaking is most probably what's going to take place. However with some creativity and risky trades, I think it is possible to be more than a mere 1st round play-off team. A Coaching change will help a great deal.

    A complete sweep can't be ruled out if BC is fired.
    That's a poor example though, because none of the changes had real risk. Trading away guys like Araujo and Charlie V, and signing unknowns like Garbo and Parker, were all moves made not to be a winner, but to move the team out of the rebuilding craphole it was in for a couple of years. The "sweeping" changes that happen when you go from tank-mode into a competitive mode are a natural evolution of the roster. If only 4 players were retained from this current roster, it would mean much riskier moves being made. It would hardly be a natural evolution of the roster. IT should be worth noting those changes did not result in a serious contender (division title aside, a 47-win team is not a serious contender), nor in a sustainable roster. It depended on role players overachieving consistently and always lacked quality talent after Bosh, who was not a true franchise player. A real sweep at that time for BC would have been to trade Bosh away as soon as he got there if he didn't like the prospect of building around him.

    *sweeping change to me, for this team, would either mean rebuilding and scrapping everything except probably JV, and one or two of Ross/Demar/Gay(who they would trade for contract reasons if wanting to rebuild, if they could), or trying to turn 2 or 3 major assets (and I mean major, like Amir, Ross, Demar, Lowry, maybe a pick on top) into a legit franchise player if one becomes available.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Mar 11th, 2013 at 10:03 PM.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Is Telfair a better 3rd string than Lucas?

  10. #30

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    The odds of Gay improving any "chunks" at this point is unlikely. He has been in the league long enough and is technically entering his prime.

    I also think the odds of Demar becoming a 40%+ 3PT shooter is extremely unlikely.

    Milsap would be great on the team, like another Amir who can shoot, but the solution has to come from Ross being more of a consistent shooter during the year.
    Nobody's asking derozan to be 40% 3 pt shooter (a number that would rank him among the best of all time). I think most would be happy if he shot 32-35% from 3 which is feasible if that's what he chooses to focus on this summer

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    3s arent that necessary if you play the rest of the game well as a unit, Chicago doesnt take many 3s avg 8 attempts a game 13 with D Rose. I dont think DeMar needs a 3 point shot tbh hes found what his game is and he is destroying people on the midrange focus on that. DeRozan needs to focus on improving strength even more, His Handles improved but can still get better, better post up plays. A 3 point shot was never his thing you can win a game with a lot of high efficient 2 balls.

  12. #32
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    I lean toward tweak. The Raptors are in such a tough salary position right now that it's next to impossible to make any significant moves without putting themselves in an even worse position. This isn't a contender team as built, but it could be, if the right pieces are added over the next couple years and the pieces we have develop well.

    2013: move Bargnani if a trade is there, but don't bring in any big contracts longer than two years unless they're a potential championship piece (some unlikely Jefferson S&T, for example I would do. Boozer trade is okay because it's two years after this year). Otherwise, keep core of Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Gay, Fields, Johnson, Valanciunas together. Amnesty Kleiza. Upgrade depth at PF and PG using MLE and bi-annual exception, but try to keep non-core contracts short and small. This would be extremely difficult, but if there's any way to stay under the tax, do so, as it'll but another year before the repeater rate kicks in (not to 2017/18, I think). During the season, focus on player development, chemistry, and getting into the playoffs.
    2014: assuming the team is significantly improved (5th/6th in the east), attempt to retain Gay and Lowry at around $30 million per year as a package. Less if possible, of course. Activate team option on Amir and the rookies. Draft BPA. During the season, focus on wins, preparing for playoffs, getting beyond first round. (Alternately, if the Gay experiment turns into a disaster, don't extend and let him expire in 2015 for massive rebuilding cap space.)
    2015: If Gay and Lowry have been resigned for $30 million or less, then combined with Ross, JV, and DeRozan, that should give us $15-20 million in cap space if we renounce our holds on Fields, Bargnani (or his replacement), and Johnson. Go hard after an allstar-level or near allstar level PF in free agency, assuming Johnson has not become that player. Lots of options, it's too early to speculate who's going to be available. At this point, best UFA PFs of that season are Aldridge and Love. Alternately, trade Bargnani as an expiring contract for whatever position is most in need of upgrade. Draft BPA. From this point forward, the goal should be top 4 in the east and multiple playoff rounds.


    Going into 2015-16 season, our core consists of Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Gay, Valanciunas, a big-ticket PF, plus two draft picks, likely drafted 15-20 range in 2014 and 2015. Fields and Johnson could both play their way into being keepers, but that would come at the cost of the big ticket PF, so I'd only keep them if we're already near contender status with the above core. This could be the season that both Miami and the Knicks begin to dismantle or at least retool, depending on their success, player satisfaction, and tolerance paying repeater taxes, so it leaves a window open.

    The idea behind this strategy is that it's patient, it's allowing time for young guys like JV and Ross to grow, while surrounding them with talent that should be a playoff team. It's taking advantage of when the balance of power in the east is going to be shifting regardless, and it's not trying to fight the fact that we have some bad contracts on this team, but rather patiently waiting them out and taking advantage of the cap space that will eventually come. It gives Amir time to show whether he can actually consistently be a good starting PF, and if so it allows the team to focus resources elsewhere. It does place an emphasis on the importance of the guys we have reaching close to their full potential. JV needs to be a franchise center, Ross needs to become a better than .375 3pt shooter and effective defender, and Gay, DeRozan, and Lowry need to have major chemistry and develop a real trust in one another. And the GM (whoever that is) needs to bring in the right pieces to build around the core, and not get trigger happy and make trades for the sake of a splash.

  13. #33
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Is Telfair a better 3rd string than Lucas?
    Talent wise yes IMO. However Lucas is probably the more valuable player to have because of his shooting ability. So personally, if I'd have to pick one of the two to be a 3rd string PG, I'd pick Lucas.
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  14. #34
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    Definite changes are needed, starting at the top with BC. At first, I was down with trading for pieces to get into the playoffs. BC messed it up (JO, Turk, Bargs) and Bosh walked. Then I was committed to a slow, lengthy rebuild through the draft. Then, as soon as we start acquiring some young talent, and with superstar talent on the horizon in Wiggins, BC messed that up too (Lowry, Gay, hanging onto Bargs for too long). As a fan, I can deal with any plan that results in success. The issue is that our plans are a) half-baked and b) never followed through to fruition. The team we have now is .500 or a bit better, good for 6th place in the east MAX. Carl Landry and MLE players are not going to alter that in a significant way. After that, we are looking at a serious decline, years of low draft picks (and management that doesn't have good scouting in place to use them effectively) and one-and-dones.

    I am eternally patient for the raps. But we are just being yo-yo'ed between being very bad and being very mediocre 7 years in a row. The sad thing is, we were a few games and picks away from having a dazzling core before some idiot decided that one extra win in a lost season meant more than the future.

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  16. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie blz's Avatar
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    why do people want to fire casey? i still remembered how high we were on him two years ago.....i have no problem with him...as long as he is not trying to start anderson...whom btw...i would love to see DNP-coach's decision in the score box
    Last edited by blz; Tue Mar 12th, 2013 at 06:45 PM.

  17. #36
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    How do you feel about DC benching Valanciunas in the 4th quarter for our very own Aaron "The Blob" Gray?

  18. #37
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    Quote Darien wrote: View Post
    How do you feel about DC benching Valanciunas in the 4th quarter for our very own Aaron "The Blob" Gray?
    The 4th quarter especially late 4th quarter is a time when team's can't afford mistakes. Experienced players are preferred on the floor. The reason I guess Anderson's presence on court is puzzling. Gray is more experienced than Jonas. So right now I prefer him.
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  19. #38
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Talent wise yes IMO. However Lucas is probably the more valuable player to have because of his shooting ability. So personally, if I'd have to pick one of the two to be a 3rd string PG, I'd pick Lucas.
    I'd say they would be equal as third stringers, but I would take Telfair as the primary back-up if I had to choose from either, because he's miles ahead of Lucas in terms of running a TEAM. Not running to the 3-point line, and call that point guard play.

  20. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Telfair looks to make a pass as soon as he gets the ball unless he has an open look. That's what i like about him

  21. #40
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I'd say they would be equal as third stringers, but I would take Telfair as the primary back-up if I had to choose from either, because he's miles ahead of Lucas in terms of running a TEAM. Not running to the 3-point line, and call that point guard play.
    I'd like the back up PG to be a good passer and so I'd prefer Telfair over Lucas. For the 3rd stringer though, I prefer Lucas over Telfair because of his ability to score.
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