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Thread: And here I was about to blast Casey for this

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Default And here I was about to blast Casey for this

    Casey on the need for three-point shooting next year:

    “Corner threes. We dearly need it. We’re 22nd or 23rd in three-point shooting. To open up the floor for DeMar and Rudy, we need somebody to get that shot. We need consistent three-point shooting to open up.

    There’s nowhere for he or DeMar to go (with no three-point threats).

    Could be next evolution of DeMar’s career. Rudy is still struggling with his back I think that effects his shot from the first week he’s here.” As I pointed out last game, DeRozan has had far more success shooting corner threes than his long attempts from elsewhere on the court, so there’s a good chance he can add that to his arsenal.
    http://blogs.canoe.ca/courtside/gene...with-thompson/

    Nice to hear Casey talk about this. This team takes way too many high 3s, and not nearly enough corner 3s, because they don't have great shooters there. That's what Demar, and Ross, have to spend time on in the summer, because they should both have ample opportunities there playing with Lowry, Gay and even as the last spot on ball swings that start on a kickout from JV. I don't think it will come from Gay because he just won't be in that spot. Demar will have to provide it with the starters, and Ross for the bench, with Fields being an x-factor if his shot is at all salvageable. We'll see if any additions (maybe backup PG?) help in that department.

    Also really happy he didn't mention AA in that little snippet. Probably doesn't mean anything...I just want that guy gone so badly.

    Wasn't sure if I should put this in with the very angry Casey-related threads out there, but feel free to merge.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Shouldn't at least one of the high paid swings be able to do this? Isn't this why they drafted Ross? Wouldn't a big that can score on the block and a wing that can attack and get to the basket be more important? Is Casey seriously this fucking stupid?

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    Yeah, that was Fields' spot in his rookie season.
    2010/11, 13.6% of his shots were corner 3s; shot 44%.
    2011/12, 8.6% of his shots were corner 3s; shot 22%.
    2012/13, 2.4% of his shots were corner 3s; shot 0%.

    Disturbing trend. But if he can fix his shot in the offseason and get even halfway between his first two seasons, that would be enormous.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Yeah, that was Fields' spot in his rookie season.
    2010/11, 13.6% of his shots were corner 3s; shot 44%.
    2011/12, 8.6% of his shots were corner 3s; shot 22%.
    2012/13, 2.4% of his shots were corner 3s; shot 0%.

    Disturbing trend. But if he can fix his shot in the offseason and get even halfway between his first two seasons, that would be enormous.
    I don't know what happened to Fields' jumper. He didn't have the prettiest looking shot, but it looked normal in his rookie season and even some Stanford highlights I've watched, and was effective until last season. It does look like he's started to rebuild it, but who knows to what results in the end.

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    Just digging corner percentages a little more,
    in 2010/11, Gay shot 46% from the corner 3s
    in 2011/12, he shot 31%
    in 2012/13, he shot 13%

    He shoots a low volume of corner 3s in total. But it's worth noting that he's always shot a higher percentage (often much higher) from the left corner rather than the right. With the Raptors though, he has yet to shoot from the left corner, while shooting from the right 3 times.

    in 2010/11, DeRozan shot 17%
    in 2011/12, he shot 40%
    in 2012/13, he shot 20%

    in 2012/13, Ross shot 26% on corner 3s.
    but from the left side, he's shot 50%

    in 2012/13, Anderson shot 40% on corner 3s.

    All of this sort suggests that none of these guys are useless at corner 3s, it's just about figuring out who's hot and running plays for them to get them open in the corners. And as for Anderson, if the only thing he did on offense is hang out in the corner, space the floor, and knock down open looks (and pass out if it's not there), I think we'd all be pretty happy for him.
    Last edited by octothorp; Tue Mar 12th, 2013 at 01:45 AM. Reason: fixed Anderson's percentage

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    http://blogs.canoe.ca/courtside/gene...with-thompson/

    Nice to hear Casey talk about this. This team takes way too many high 3s, and not nearly enough corner 3s, because they don't have great shooters there. That's what Demar, and Ross, have to spend time on in the summer, because they should both have ample opportunities there playing with Lowry, Gay and even as the last spot on ball swings that start on a kickout from JV. I don't think it will come from Gay because he just won't be in that spot. Demar will have to provide it with the starters, and Ross for the bench, with Fields being an x-factor if his shot is at all salvageable. We'll see if any additions (maybe backup PG?) help in that department.

    Also really happy he didn't mention AA in that little snippet. Probably doesn't mean anything...I just want that guy gone so badly.

    Wasn't sure if I should put this in with the very angry Casey-related threads out there, but feel free to merge.
    It is also on Casey to devise an offense that gives opportunities for corner 3s.

    Ball movement and player off ball movement (together!) is crucial and something lacking right now.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Considering that Gay and DeRozan are usually on the floor together, doesn't that mean Casey's talking about the starting lineup?

    Hopefully, Colangelo's answer to this isn't "We've got that covered already. WE HAVE BARGNANI!".
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Considering that Gay and DeRozan are usually on the floor together, doesn't that mean Casey's talking about the starting lineup?

    Hopefully, Colangelo's answer to this isn't "We've got that covered already. WE HAVE BARGNANI!".
    Haha! I thought the same thing...

    It would be tremendous if demar can become a consistent 3pt shooter from the corner. It would vastly change the dynamic of the team

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    Haha! I thought the same thing...

    It would be tremendous if demar can become a consistent 3pt shooter from the corner. It would vastly change the dynamic of the team
    I think we need a combination of a couple guys learning to shoot 3's consistently (maybe Lowry and DeMar?), and the other part we need is Valanciunas' game to develop quickly. Once/if he becomes a true post presence and demands attention from defenses, it'll open things up tremendously for us.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I think we need a combination of a couple guys learning to shoot 3's consistently (maybe Lowry and DeMar?), and the other part we need is Valanciunas' game to develop quickly. Once/if he becomes a true post presence and demands attention from defenses, it'll open things up tremendously for us.
    Lowry is already a good three point shooter. He shoots 40% and takes about 5 per game (he took 10 once against Brooklyn). Demar is the logical choice to try and develop this a bit since him and Gay do a lot of the same things right now. Ross and Fields off the bench would both also benefit.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    So is this him asking for more shooters, or is this him saying "hey guys - I just came across this thing call advanced stats! Have you heard about it? They say that corners threes one of the best shots in the game! Maybe we'll try some?"

    The reason I ask is...Bargs is the perfect player to be playing with Gay and Demar in this respect...and when Bargs was playing the last few weeks (and even in the beginning of the season, before he got injured), he was never, ever, setting up in the corner.

    Regardless, it's actually a little distressing/embarrassing that coaching/management is this late in the game on the corner three, and that Casey's coming out and saying it in public.
    Last edited by JimiCliff; Tue Mar 12th, 2013 at 09:23 AM.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Lowry is already a good three point shooter. He shoots 40% and takes about 5 per game (he took 10 once against Brooklyn). Demar is the logical choice to try and develop this a bit since him and Gay do a lot of the same things right now. Ross and Fields off the bench would both also benefit.
    He also plays most of the game, and there are only so many shots to be taken.

    The way I see it, Casey is resigned to this RG-DD combo playing extended minutes. One of them has to learn to space the floor, and it is more likely to be derozan.

    There is no question that Lowry should be taking 4 or 5 3's a game if they are available, but can you imgaine if Derozan could make 1 or 2 3's a game, instead of those being long 2's?

    the difference would be huge (and don't say it would be 1 or 2 points...)

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Lowry is already a good three point shooter. He shoots 40% and takes about 5 per game (he took 10 once against Brooklyn). Demar is the logical choice to try and develop this a bit since him and Gay do a lot of the same things right now. Ross and Fields off the bench would both also benefit.
    Clearly he's not enough of a 3 point shooter, or Casey wouldn't be asking for more.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    The PG isn't going to be stuck in the corner, so I don't view Lowry as an option. I would much rather see Gay & Lowry used as the penetrators, with DeRozan used as the corner 3pt specialist.

    However, given DeRozan's poor 3pt shooting - despite focusing on improving it over at least two offseasons already - I'm not sure he's the ideal fit. This is the rationale for considering DeRozan as a trade chip; improve the starting PF spot via trade for DeRozan (ie: Millsap via S&T), then find a better 3pt shooter to fill the starting SG position via one of several options: using an in-house option (Ross or Fields), acquiring a player via trade (ie: in a Bargnani trade) or signing a free agent (ie: use the MLE).

    Making 2/3 moves could result in a much better and more balanced starting unit, by adding a traditional post-presence and an effective 3pt shooter. Yes it would suck to give up talent, but that's the only way real talent is going to be added, especially for a team that likely has no 1st round pick and is so far over the cap. Again, it's only an option to consider.

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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    So is this him asking for more shooters, or is this him saying "hey guys - I just came across this thing call advanced stats! Have you heard about it? They say that corners threes one of the best shots in the game! Maybe we'll try some?"

    The reason I ask is...Bargs is the perfect player to be playing with Gay and Demar in this respect...and when Bargs was playing the last few weeks (and even in the beginning of the season, before he got injured), he was never, ever, setting up in the corner.

    Regardless, it's actually a little distressing/embarrassing that coaching/management is this late in the game on the corner three, and that Casey's coming out and saying it in public.
    Just to make this very simple...I have no clue what the deal has always been with Bargs and the corners. He has never been utilized that way, so I just came to assume it was a player issue, that he doesn't like shooting from those spots and hasn't really ever become very good from the corners, so the coach never puts him there.

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Clearly he's not enough of a 3 point shooter, or Casey wouldn't be asking for more.
    40% is as good as you can ask for from three. Maybe you can run some sets where he goes to the corner after sending it to Gay, but I took Casey's comment to mean we need someone like an Anthony Parker who goes to the corner a lot on set plays as the guy Lowry kicks to after penetrating (he's our best at getting by the first man). Unless we have Lowry play off ball a lot more, which seems like a bad idea, we can't use him for this.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    theres literally only a handful of high volume 3pt snipers in the league right now. who the hell do the raps plan on signing to get a player of such calibre?

    can we even just please stop chucking so many threes? we have so much talent that can get to the net!

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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    theres literally only a handful of high volume 3pt snipers in the league right now. who the hell do the raps plan on signing to get a player of such calibre?

    can we even just please stop chucking so many threes? we have so much talent that can get to the net!
    I think part of the idea is that it doesn't take sweeping personnel changes. Lowry's a good shooter, but pretty much never in those spots. Those spots, the corners, are exactly the threes you want because they usually come from ball movement. So if the ball is getting there, it probably means there's less chucking of bad 3s happening. You only need one guy on the floor to be good at making shots from those spots.

    I don't know if Demar is going to get there, but as the roster stands, he's the only real option among the starters to bring that if he can develop it. I think with Ross it's only a matter of time. And it would be nice if one or 2 other guys improved, especially Fields.

    Nowhere did Casey talk about signing/adding a guy to do that. I doubt it would come from a new big. I could see the new backup PG helping, because even Lucas I think shoots more in that spot than Lowry, as he's used off the ball more.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I think part of the idea is that it doesn't take sweeping personnel changes. Lowry's a good shooter, but pretty much never in those spots. Those spots, the corners, are exactly the threes you want because they usually come from ball movement. So if the ball is getting there, it probably means there's less chucking of bad 3s happening. You only need one guy on the floor to be good at making shots from those spots.

    I don't know if Demar is going to get there, but as the roster stands, he's the only real option among the starters to bring that if he can develop it. I think with Ross it's only a matter of time. And it would be nice if one or 2 other guys improved, especially Fields.

    Nowhere did Casey talk about signing/adding a guy to do that. I doubt it would come from a new big. I could see the new backup PG helping, because even Lucas I think shoots more in that spot than Lowry, as he's used off the ball more.
    If I was DC, I would take Ross to the corners and give him the Happy Gilmore speech - "This is your home. Go to your home!" - and make Ross live in the corners. Not only could he work on his 3pt shot but, in time, I could see him using fakes to drive the baseline and even use his BB-IQ to make backdoor cuts for easy buckets & alley-oops.

    Of course, I could see Fields also filling this role admirably, if he's able to regain his 3pt form. I actually see a lot of Anthony Parker in Fields - great perimeter defense, smart player with great floor vision, doesn't need the ball a lot to be successful, contributes a lot of intangibles, provides leadership - the corner 3 would be the icing on the cake.

    If Ross and/or Fields can nail down that role from the SG spot, where does that leave DeRozan?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If I was DC, I would take Ross to the corners and give him the Happy Gilmore speech - "This is your home. Go to your home!" - and make Ross live in the corners. Not only could he work on his 3pt shot but, in time, I could see him using fakes to drive the baseline and even use his BB-IQ to make backdoor cuts for easy buckets & alley-oops.

    Of course, I could see Fields also filling this role admirably, if he's able to regain his 3pt form. I actually see a lot of Anthony Parker in Fields - great perimeter defense, smart player with great floor vision, doesn't need the ball a lot to be successful, contributes a lot of intangibles, provides leadership - the corner 3 would be the icing on the cake.

    If Ross and/or Fields can nail down that role from the SG spot, where does that leave DeRozan?
    This is where BC's slick trading skills might pay off once again

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