View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #9141
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    This kills his trade value. Dude can't stay healthy, plus he's Andrea Bargnani. who in their right minds would trade for him
    Just amnesty him and move on already.

  2. #9142
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    The best thing to do with junk is to throw it away, don't swap it for different junk. The money you wasted on the piece of junk is gone, time to move on.

    Amnesty is the only smart move.
    Agreed.

  3. #9143
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    We Amnesty Klieza not Bargnani, Bargnani we can trade him he has value believe it or not you arent just going to let him walk get something for him. BC isnt going to amnesty him he would rather go down with the ship than do that, problem is just like the Boozer deal BC will probably overvalue moving his golden boy.

  4. #9144
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Odds are Bargnani will be at training camp, imo.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  5. #9145
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Sam Mitchell discusses Bargnani:

    Sometimes, Sam Mitchell was saying, he pushed his players just to see how far he could go before he finally reached their limit: “Sometimes, I got on their ass until they pushed back.”

    Mitchell was on a couch inside a luxury Toronto hotel on Wednesday morning, returning to the city where he coached the Raptors for parts of five seasons. He has returned as part of the media, as part of TSN’s broadcast team for March Madness.

    And his timing was uncanny.

    “Sometimes, I got on a guy’s ass until he was basically like, ‘coach, c’mon,’” Mitchell said. “And I would say, ‘thank you, I wanted to see how long it was going to take for you, because I only wanted to get that out of you. I wanted to unleash that fire inside.”

    About an hour after he said that, a player whose fire he could never fully ignite — in part, he suggested, because management disapproved of his methods — was likely lost for the year. Toronto announced Andrea Bargnani is expected to miss the rest of the season with an elbow injury.

    The 27-year-old was injured during a loss to the Los Angeles Lakers last week.

    Mitchell was admittedly hard on several players during his time in Toronto, including Jose Calderon and Chris Bosh. He said management discouraged him from taking the same approach with Bargnani, who the Raptors took first overall in the 2006 draft.

    A lot of people in the upper management felt like that was the wrong technique,” he said. “And I blame myself from the standpoint that I didn’t articulate. But I didn’t feel like I needed to as a coach.”

    Mitchell, who coached Toronto from 2004 through 2008, said he set aside one 10-game stretch where he forbade Bargnani from taking a three-point shot. He said he went so far as to tell the young Italian he would remove him from the game if he stopped to shoot from beyond the arc.

    My thing was, I wanted him to understand he used the three-pointer as a crutch,” he said. “He relied on it too much. I wanted him to use the three-pointer as a weapon. I wanted him to realize that, from 17 feet in, in one dribble, Andrea could get anywhere on the basketball court.

    Mitchell, who has spoken of management’s interference before, would not go into the specifics of what upper management told him. He would not offer names.

    “Maybe, looking back, if I ever coach again and I want to do something like that, I’ll sit down with the general manager first and say, ‘this is what I want to do, this is why I’m going to do it, and after these 10 games, I’m going to turn him loose,’” he said. “That’s how Jose got better. I turned him loose. Chris Bosh. I turned him loose: ‘You all go play, I’ve done my job.’”

    Does Mitchell think things would have worked out differently with Bargnani if he had been allowed to do the job the way he wanted?

    “I would have liked to have seen it,” Mitchell said. “Because Andrea has tremendous talent.”
    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...with-bargnani/

    As mentioned on the main page, this pretty much confirms what everyone thought....that management did interfere with Mitchell's coaching philosophy. The same probably happened with Triano and Casey.

    BCGots2Go was right....our coaches are merely Colangelo's puppets.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  6. #9146
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Sam Mitchell discusses Bargnani:



    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...with-bargnani/

    As mentioned on the main page, this pretty much confirms what everyone thought....that management did interfere with Mitchell's coaching philosophy. The same probably happened with Triano and Casey.

    BCGots2Go was right....our coaches are merely Colangelo's puppets.
    Can I say wow? I never expected it to be this true, little bit naive on my part I guess.

  7. #9147
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Man, I miss Smitch sometimes. I don't think I ever doubted that BC was just being stupid in interfering and firing him. I love the part in the article about how he could get anywhere with one dribble from about 17 feet....sigh....what a waste of talent.

  8. #9148
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Default Why no amnesty??

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Ummmm, no.

    The Raptors are in a position moving forward (assuming Gay and Lowry are extended) where the only way to add talent is via exceptions, minimum contracts, first round draft picks and TRADES.

    If you can swap a different piece of junk that is better suited to Toronto, you take it. Then when that different piece of junk is expiring you have a method of adding talent to a team that may not be making a trade based purely on basketball reasons.

    Amnestying Bargnani is ridiculous and I am not sure why people continue to propose it. Anyone can be traded which Arenas proved and Lewis/Hedo twice.

    One man's junk is another man's treasure.
    I must admit that I haven't spent much time reading the CBA (I usually spend my time watching Basketball and reading the blogs from time to time)....

    To be honest, I just dont understand why it would be soooo ridiculous to amnesty Bargnani......

    The Amnesty Clause - from wikipedia

    "Teams can claim an amnestied player at a reduced rate, with the waiving team responsible for paying the balance of the contract. The team with the highest bid acquires the player. If unclaimed, the player becomes a free agent.[5] Teams over the salary cap can only acquire an amnestied player if he becomes a free agent, and the offer would be limited to the veteran's minimum contract."

    So basically, if we amnesty him there "may be" a bidding war for him...?? Let's say someone decides he's worth $5 million per year or more. Thereby leaving us on the hook for the remainder of his salary AND it does NOT count against our cap. Why would would this be sooo ridiculous? What if we cannot trade him (because nobody is willing to pay $11 and 12 million for his services)?? Am i missing something here? Luis Scola, Elton Brand, etc were all amnestied.... why not Bargnani??

    Also, isn't Kleiza an expiring contract next year?? Why would we amnesty him when he could be included for salary purposes (maybe a team is looking to cut salary with an expiring and just let him walk at the end of the year??).

    Basically, I just wanted to hear your reasons why it wouldn't make sense (especially if NO ONE wants this enigma at his current salary or want to trade anything of value for him).

  9. #9149
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    And thats how we'll remember you Goodbye Big Fart

  10. #9150
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I must admit that I haven't spent much time reading the CBA (I usually spend my time watching Basketball and reading the blogs from time to time)....

    To be honest, I just dont understand why it would be soooo ridiculous to amnesty Bargnani......

    The Amnesty Clause - from wikipedia

    "Teams can claim an amnestied player at a reduced rate, with the waiving team responsible for paying the balance of the contract. The team with the highest bid acquires the player. If unclaimed, the player becomes a free agent.[5] Teams over the salary cap can only acquire an amnestied player if he becomes a free agent, and the offer would be limited to the veteran's minimum contract."

    So basically, if we amnesty him there "may be" a bidding war for him...?? Let's say someone decides he's worth $5 million per year or more. Thereby leaving us on the hook for the remainder of his salary AND it does NOT count against our cap. Why would would this be sooo ridiculous? What if we cannot trade him (because nobody is willing to pay $11 and 12 million for his services)?? Am i missing something here? Luis Scola, Elton Brand, etc were all amnestied.... why not Bargnani??

    Also, isn't Kleiza an expiring contract next year?? Why would we amnesty him when he could be included for salary purposes (maybe a team is looking to cut salary with an expiring and just let him walk at the end of the year??).

    Basically, I just wanted to hear your reasons why it wouldn't make sense (especially if NO ONE wants this enigma at his current salary or want to trade anything of value for him).
    Yes, you are missing something here - and I am not saying that ridiculing or sarcastically.

    The problem is the bold.

    The Raptors are currently on the books for $72.9M next year assuming all options picked up (Kleiza, Gray, JL3).

    Amnestying Bargnani takes the Raptors to about $62M.

    That is $4M above the salary cap.

    The only real benefit is being able to use the FULL MLE of 4yrs/$20M vs. 3yr/$9M.

    Once a team is over the cap the only way to add salary is through exceptions, 1st rd draft picks, minimum contracts, and trades.

    The only real chance for the Raptors to add anything significant is through trade.

    Amnestying Bargnani takes away the biggest trade chip in terms of salary which in terms of the NBA CBA is extremely important.

    People might say, "Well, no other team will take him." but I don't think that is true especially given the implications for the new luxury tax and repeater tax. Also, at some point, he is going to be an expiring contract. People (myself included) were talking about trading Calderon but it was not until he was an expiring did his over valued contract become useful.

    The examples you gave all provided teams flexibility under the salary cap (Houston) and luxury tax (Philly).

    Houston/Scola gave the Rockets enough space to sign Lin and Asik. The Raps are not free agent players by amnestying Bargnani.

    Philly/Brand gave the 76ers enough space under the luxury tax to take on Bynum and Richardson. In doing that trade they also had other trade chips (AI) whereas the Raptors do not have any other trade chips (unless you count Kleiza/Fields or one of the 'core' JV,TR,DD,KL,RG).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #9151
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick reply. I definitely understand what your saying now. It looks like he will be here next year regardless if Bryan's here or not. Can we get better than Carlos Boozer??? Does Chicago even do this trade anymore? I don't see the lakers taking him on but i guess you never know.

    This AB situation is just a mess!

    I like Rudy Gay BUT this is what many of us were afraid of.....sigh.

    I hope the raising of the ticket prices signal the willingness to enter the luxury tax.... If not, we're screwed. This team as is is just not good enough to make much noise UNLESS JV and TRoss make huge jumps in their developement.

  12. #9152
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Sam Mitchell discusses Bargnani:

    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...with-bargnani/

    As mentioned on the main page, this pretty much confirms what everyone thought....that management did interfere with Mitchell's coaching philosophy. The same probably happened with Triano and Casey.

    BCGots2Go was right....our coaches are merely Colangelo's puppets.

    Mitch had some great points, however, he gave a better interview several months ago (so this is old news). The only "additional" bit of information he seems to be sharing (that has relevance), is how he states his approach (to management) for Bargnani should've been better.

    As to this interview (as well as the previous ones), I think Smitch takes a little too much credit for Bosh & Calderon's current abilities.

    If I could reorder the coaching history for Andrea, having Jay first, then Smitch, the outcome would probably have been much different. And better.

    .

  13. #9153
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    Mitch had some great points, however, he gave a better interview several months ago (so this is old news). The only "additional" bit of information he seems to be sharing (that has relevance), is how he states his approach (to management) for Bargnani should've been better.

    As to this interview (as well as the previous ones), I think Smitch takes a little too much credit for Bosh & Calderon's current abilities.

    If I could reorder the coaching history for Andrea, having Jay first, then Smitch, the outcome would probably have been much different. And better.

    .
    Agreed with the last point. Jay was great for building his confidence and getting him minutes to play through mistakes. Mitchell coming in after and holding him accountable would have been a better transition with him maturing on and off the court (age/language/culture change).

  14. #9154
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    The best thing to do with junk is to throw it away, don't swap it for different junk. The money you wasted on the piece of junk is gone, time to move on.

    Amnesty is the only smart move.
    Agreed.

  15. #9155
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply. I definitely understand what your saying now. It looks like he will be here next year regardless if Bryan's here or not. Can we get better than Carlos Boozer??? Does Chicago even do this trade anymore? I don't see the lakers taking him on but i guess you never know.

    This AB situation is just a mess!
    All the more reason bc should go.
    I like Rudy Gay BUT this is what many of us were afraid of.....sigh.

    I hope the raising of the ticket prices signal the willingness to enter the luxury tax.... If not, we're screwed. This team as is is just not good enough to make much noise UNLESS JV and TRoss make huge jumps in their developement.
    All the more reason bc should go.

  16. #9156
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    A friend of mine just reminded me of this article. Reading it made me laugh several times, but also reflect on how far Bargnani has fallen. It's pretty sad actually. I've quoted a few excerpts:

    Nowitzki, sitting in the bowels of the Thomas & Mack Center, first scoffed at the rush to compare the two: "Every tall, white shooter who comes over is going to be compared to me." But then he made the parallel himself. And he finds himself lacking. Dirk says that at 21, the newcomer is better than he was: "Sky's the limit for him."
    "He's like a junior Dirk," LeBron says after Bargnani's 18-point, seven-rebound effort in a one-point loss to the Cavaliers in their first game after the break. "He's going to be a very, very, very impressive player in this league."
    Teammate Anthony Parker cuts through all the psycho-babble. He says, "He's absolutely fearless. Why? I think he was just born with it." Bargnani himself brushes off talk of his extraordinary self-confidence.
    For years, NBA teams have used the Caliper Profile to evaluate potential draft picks. The Caliper is a personality profile used by numerous corporations and organizations to measure one's capacity to excel in specific situations. Over the past 24 years, Caliper has assessed more than 20,000 athletes, including NBA players from Detroit, San Antonio, Denver and Phoenix. Colangelo has long been sold on the system. When he heard how Bargnani measured up, he nearly dropped the phone.

    "They said his upside and potential were off the charts," Colangelo says from the tunnel of the Air Canada Centre as Bargnani drains a three against the Cavaliers. "They said, 'Out of all the athletes we've profiled, we've never seen anything like this.' "

    The test showed that Bargnani is virtually oblivious to what others think of him. And his tremendous ability to block out such potentially negative pressures enables him to focus completely on the task at hand. So the expectations and anxieties that come with being the No.1 pick, or the only Italian-born player in the league, or even taking a game-winning shot, don't even register with him.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...pnmag/bargnani
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #9157
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    You can't help but laugh....

    ....or cry
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #9158
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    MAybe Bargnani is pretending to be inept to leave Toronto? and then become the beast he was projected to be.

  19. #9159
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    What if? is all we can say. The dude has all the talent he just never put it together with effort and desire, its as simple as that. If he had the same competitiveness and drive as amir johnson we would have been championship contenders in his 2nd or 3rd season.

  20. #9160
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    That article made me tear up.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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