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Thread: In case you didn't know, Raps stuck in basement of NBA (HoopsWorld.com)

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default In case you didn't know, Raps stuck in basement of NBA (HoopsWorld.com)

    Toronto Raptors

    Last Playoff Appearance: 2008
    Record Since Last Playoff Appearance: 143-234 (.379)
    Number of Former Lottery Picks Age 26 or Younger: Four (Rudy Gay, DeMar DeRozan, Terrence Ross and Jonas Valanciunas)

    Toronto is definitely stockpiling solid talent and changing the culture. The arrival of Kyle Lowry and Rudy Gay has provided the club with immediate returns on the court and will help the development of Terrence Ross and DeMar DeRozan off of it as well. There are plenty of positives for the team to mention in a long term sense, but the fact remains another sub .500 season has the fans restless in Toronto.

    Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-tea...n-the-basement
    I'm sure most around here know and don't need the salt in the wound.... but here it is anyways.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Not much insight....I repost something I wrote on another thread to sum up my thoughts on BC:

    "Yeah...the one thing I have said since long before I joined these forums was that regardless of the quality of job you think BC is doing, no one could ever argue that he approaches team-building with strategy. He is totally reactionary/impulsive and doesn't care at all about increasing wins, just increasing hype/sales. I laugh at anyone who suggests he has long-term vision when Toronto is on it's 3rd "franchise" player, 3rd coach, has missed the playoffs for 5 years, and has no cap space.

    And if you even look at his PHX days, as good as the Nash-led teams played, it was always hard to believe they'd win a ring. THey just didn't look like a team built for that kind of playoff run. The last time PHX really had that kind of leadership was when his father was controlling everything and pulled the Barkley trade. That team had about the right kind of roster mix to play deep playoffs basketball. Colangelo should be managing a team like the Bucks, expectations-wise (though obviously not with the type of resources he likes), where 8th seed is always the goal (I kid, but you know what I mean)."


    I don't see much reason for optimism for the next couple of years...Sure, I'll cheer for them, and they could make the playoffs, and then they'll probably stand no chance in hell. I'm very optimistic for 3 years from now, when JV should be hitting his stride, and hopefully the damage BC has done now will be cleaned up and they can properly build around him.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Mar 15th, 2013 at 02:29 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Yes it's been a long time since we've seen the post season, BUT I think out of all the teams on that list we're the only ones likely to be still playing in the second season.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Fire BC (do not pick up his option) Please!!!.....let's get someone else in here with a strategy!

    I'm not worried about who they bring in because you can't do much worse than what BC's done to the promising team he got in 2005-2006. Does anyone else here believe that another GM would've selected AB 1st overall?? I don't think so!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Fire BC (do not pick up his option) Please!!!.....let's get someone else in here with a strategy!

    I'm not worried about who they bring in because you can't do much worse than what BC's done to the promising team he got in 2005-2006. Does anyone else here believe that another GM would've selected AB 1st overall?? I don't think so!
    Colangelo's mistake wasn't drafting Bargnani. It was keeping Bargnani for as long as he did.

    As seen here, 5 of the 13 mock drafts leading up to the 2006 draft had Bargnani as the top pick. Meaning, there were probably quite a few GMs willing to take Bargnani #1.
    http://www.nba.com/bobcats/draft_mocks_060601.html

    Bargnani wasn't the consensus #1, but he wasn't a reach either.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    I think MLSE is in a very tough predicament when it comes to BC.

    At this stage, he's abandoned the rebuild and going full steam on "win now mode". I think he's made good, but not great moves with Lowry, Gay, Demar, JV, Ross, Amir, Fields and Telfair. The question is, do you let BC continue on with his re-tooling, or get a new GM in and take the risk of that new GM's vision not coinciding with the current personnel.

    IMO, i say go with a new GM. I think the franchise needs a new face at the top, someone fresh and who's not going to be worried about his image and maintaining his reputation. Get a new guy who will take risks in trying to build the team while he's carving out his own reputation.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Fire BC (do not pick up his option) Please!!!.....let's get someone else in here with a strategy!

    I'm not worried about who they bring in because you can't do much worse than what BC's done to the promising team he got in 2005-2006. Does anyone else here believe that another GM would've selected AB 1st overall?? I don't think so!
    I'm not defending BC or Bargs, but I'm really tired of this...No one really talked about anyone other than Aldridge really going first. Everyone knew Roy wouldn't be 1st because of his knees. Regardless of what you think of Bargs or BC, the Raptors had Bosh, who everyone was the player Aldridge resembled the most at the time. Any other GM wouldn't have had to make that choice. It all comes down to another thing I have said about BC...if he actually planned what he does, and didn't believe Bosh was a PF he could build around, he should've drafted Aldridge and traded Bosh. Sure, a chance he may have still drafted Bargs, but at least the team would've realized much sooner he isn't a guy you can build around.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Colangelo's mistake wasn't drafting Bargnani. It was keeping Bargnani for as long as he did.

    As seen here, 5 of the 13 mock drafts leading up to the 2006 draft had Bargnani as the top pick. Meaning, there were probably quite a few GMs willing to take Bargnani #1.
    http://www.nba.com/bobcats/draft_mocks_060601.html

    Bargnani wasn't the consensus #1, but he wasn't a reach either.
    +1. Ive alway said BC has done moves with the best intention, but they just dont pan out.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I'm not defending BC or Bargs, but I'm really tired of this...No one really talked about anyone other than Aldridge really going first. Everyone knew Roy wouldn't be 1st because of his knees. Regardless of what you think of Bargs or BC, the Raptors had Bosh, who everyone was the player Aldridge resembled the most at the time. Any other GM wouldn't have had to make that choice. It all comes down to another thing I have said about BC...if he actually planned what he does, and didn't believe Bosh was a PF he could build around, he should've drafted Aldridge and traded Bosh. Sure, a chance he may have still drafted Bargs, but at least the team would've realized much sooner he isn't a guy you can build around.
    Exactly. Hindsight is a bitch, as they say.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I think MLSE is in a very tough predicament when it comes to BC.

    At this stage, he's abandoned the rebuild and going full steam on "win now mode". I think he's made good, but not great moves with Lowry, Gay, Demar, JV, Ross, Amir, Fields and Telfair. The question is, do you let BC continue on with his re-tooling, or get a new GM in and take the risk of that new GM's vision not coinciding with the current personnel.

    IMO, i say go with a new GM. I think the franchise needs a new face at the top, someone fresh and who's not going to be worried about his image and maintaining his reputation. Get a new guy who will take risks in trying to build the team while he's carving out his own reputation.
    If a new GM were to come in now, he wouldn't have a whole lot to work with (no draft pick and no financial flexibility).

    The best approach might be to repeat the strategy employed following Babcock's dismissal. That is, promote someone internally with an "interim" tag emphasizing the importance of trading away ugly contracts and acquiring picks and cap space, while interviewing potential GM candidates. Create a sell-able situation where GMs would want to join.

    Unfortunately for fans, this is basically wiping the slate clean and starting over....which means a looooooong wait before any meaningful games are played. But it might be the only realistic way of fixing this mess.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    +1. Ive alway said BC has done moves with the best intention, but they just dont pan out.
    Technically, one could say that every bad GM, in regards to every bad transaction ever made had the "best intentions". But in pro sports (as is the case with any business), results are the only things that matter
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Technically, one could say that every bad GM, in regards to every bad transaction ever made had the "best intentions". But in pro sports (as is the case with any business), results are the only things that matter
    Yes, but as in any business, the results that matter have everything to do with money, and nothing to do with the quality of the final product.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If a new GM were to come in now, he wouldn't have a whole lot to work with (no draft pick and no financial flexibility).

    The best approach might be to repeat the strategy employed following Babcock's dismissal. That is, promote someone internally with an "interim" tag emphasizing the importance of trading away ugly contracts and acquiring picks and cap space, while interviewing potential GM candidates. Create a sell-able situation where GMs would want to join.

    Unfortunately for fans, this is basically wiping the slate clean and starting over....which means a looooooong wait before any meaningful games are played. But it might be the only realistic way of fixing this mess.
    Didnt Masai come to the Nuggets in fairly the same situation?

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Colangelo's mistake wasn't drafting Bargnani. It was keeping Bargnani for as long as he did.

    As seen here, 5 of the 13 mock drafts leading up to the 2006 draft had Bargnani as the top pick. Meaning, there were probably quite a few GMs willing to take Bargnani #1.
    http://www.nba.com/bobcats/draft_mocks_060601.html

    Bargnani wasn't the consensus #1, but he wasn't a reach either.
    Interesting to see that everyone had him in the top 5....what a crappy draft anyway

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Didnt Masai come to the Nuggets in fairly the same situation?
    Not sure about Denver's situation, but Colangelo most certainly did.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Colangelo's mistake wasn't drafting Bargnani. It was keeping Bargnani for as long as he did.

    As seen here, 5 of the 13 mock drafts leading up to the 2006 draft had Bargnani as the top pick. Meaning, there were probably quite a few GMs willing to take Bargnani #1.
    http://www.nba.com/bobcats/draft_mocks_060601.html

    Bargnani wasn't the consensus #1, but he wasn't a reach either.
    Seriously, that mock draft board is scary, when you look at it. Basically there was a clear debate between Aldridge and Bargnani, two physically gifted bigs who could score the ball, at #1. And then the only other people who got votes were Adam Morrison and Tyrus Thomas...that's scary. Imagine if BC had used the pick on one of those guys

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I'm actually thinking BC's option should be picked up. This team is a lock for the playoffs next year, and with some minor changes or just development of the players we can fight for th 5th-6th seed. I don't think he deserves to have it picked up but we're finally look at a season where the number 1a or 1b goal is to win games! I don't want a management shake up to undermine our ability to win in any way. See what this team can do, let them lose in the first round and then don't rehire BC.


    Before the Gay trades, then sure bring in someone new. But now, there's not a lot a new GM can do anyway other than mess with chemistry.

    Again his performance as a GM doesn't warrant him getting an extension, but he's put together a team that's going to make the playoffs, and the front office has pretty much 0 flexibility. You hire a new GM now and what is he going to do? We've finally got a team that's going to make the playoffs. Please Jesus, let us make the playoffs at least one year before we blow it all up again. Even if we get swept in the first round, I don't give a sh!t, but gee dee it! I want to see some raptors playoff basketball!
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    I'm actually thinking BC's option should be picked up. This team is a lock for the playoffs next year, and with some minor changes or just development of the players we can fight for th 5th-6th seed. I don't think he deserves to have it picked up but we're finally look at a season where the number 1a or 1b goal is to win games! I don't want a management shake up to undermine our ability to win in any way. See what this team can do, let them lose in the first round and then don't rehire BC.


    Before the Gay trades, then sure bring in someone new. But now, there's not a lot a new GM can do anyway other than mess with chemistry.

    Again his performance as a GM doesn't warrant him getting an extension, but he's put together a team that's going to make the playoffs, and the front office has pretty much 0 flexibility. You hire a new GM now and what is he going to do? We've finally got a team that's going to make the playoffs. Please Jesus, let us make the playoffs at least one year before we blow it all up again. Even if we get swept in the first round, I don't give a sh!t, but gee dee it! I want to see some raptors playoff basketball!

    What makes you so certain we're playoff bound? Since Rudy Gay has joined we're .500 (9-9), and haven't beaten a single team with a winning record in the last 10 games. We may make the playoffs next year but it isn't a guarantee and a 5th or 6th seed would be much higher than can be reasonably expected.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    What makes you so certain we're playoff bound? Since Rudy Gay has joined we're .500 (9-9), and haven't beaten a single team with a winning record in the last 10 games. We may make the playoffs next year but it isn't a guarantee and a 5th or 6th seed would be much higher than can be reasonably expected.
    This team has legit playoff talent to make it. It had the talent this year but just had an abysmal start. They had the toughest schedule to start the season. 4-19 to start 22-21 since than. With Rudy they've beaten Clippers, Indiana, NYC twice, Denver. This team could always compete with teams. They just couldn't close them out. With a summer and Training camp that will be better.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    Here comes another hate on Bargs thread. Honestly the way Bargs was being used was pretty bad, especially since Gay got here. I think Bargs is fine (not #1 overall but just look at that top 10, most are rotting on the bench right now (or out of the NBA)). People need to get over it. He had a bad start to the season then got hurt, then Gay got here and the team got flipped on it's head. I think Bargs can still help this franchise if he's used properly. The couple last games that he played this season (when he started and got minutes) before he got hurt is the proof of that. He was grabbing 5+ rebounds and shooting fairly well and trying harder.

    Either way, with Gays contract (and it seems like he's going to be getting an extension) the Raptors can't do crap. He has yet to prove he can be a #1 that can lead the team and has been shooting piss poor for the most part this season (both on the Raptors and Grizz). We are pretty much stuck in the same situation where we'll be 8th or 7th at best and will get knocked out before we can get anywhere.
    Last edited by RaptorsFan4Life; Sat Mar 16th, 2013 at 03:14 PM.

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