Sam Mitchell

[robert parrish 00]

Mitchell - coach of the year
Jose- free throw record
Kapono - 3 pt champion
Ross- slam dunk champion

We are Raptors fans-it's the small victories outside of actual wins that matter.

I'd be fine if they brought back Smitch, Kapono, and Jose....
Ahhh memories

[DoNDaDDa]

Not sure I understand the idea that Butch Carter had a stacked roster. He basically had an up-and-coming Carter, and spare parts.

he had VC,TMac,ADavis,Oakley,Willis,Muggsy,Alvin Williams,dee brown,Christie,Dell Curry, that's hardly VC and spare parts!

[2KJ]

@Thead : Neither do I. Triano may not be a disciplinarian like casey, popovich, larry brown, but he knows his x's and o's. he has a much better offense than casey, and ball always moves(doesn't always rely on iso, whether it's carter, bosh, mike james, tj ford, bargs, derozan, gay, lowry, allan friggin andersen, john lucas). And we almost made it to the playoffs, and were actually a middle seed in the east before rupaul quit and shut himself down after the all-star weekend to go to southbeach (also with lebron screwing with us, played in a game vs raps = raps lost; DNP vs bulls = bulls won --> bulls got the 8th seed by 1 game).

[Nilanka]

he had VC,TMac,ADavis,Oakley,Willis,Muggsy,Alvin Williams,dee brown,Christie,Dell Curry, that's hardly VC and spare parts!

TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.

[ezz_bee]

@Thead : Neither do I. Triano may not be a disciplinarian like casey, popovich, larry brown, but he knows his x's and o's. he has a much better offense than casey, and ball always moves(doesn't always rely on iso, whether it's carter, bosh, mike james, tj ford, bargs, derozan, gay, lowry, allan friggin andersen, john lucas). And we almost made it to the playoffs, and were actually a middle seed in the east before rupaul quit and shut himself down after the all-star weekend to go to southbeach (also with lebron screwing with us, played in a game vs raps = raps lost; DNP vs bulls = bulls won --> bulls got the 8th seed by 1 game).

I hate to rain on your parade, but I think thead's remark was sarcastic, because Triano wins by default.

[Mediumcore]

TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.

I think a key thing to mention here is that Butch Carter was working with solid veteran players, and not young rookies like Casey has to. I mean VC came into the league NBA ready and the rest of the squad was already tried and tested. Casey is dealing with a rookie C that isn't ready to start and DeMar who is basically just now showing he's ready to contribute. Davis was an All Star, and Oakley a kep player for a perenniel playoff team in New York. And Carters bench was stacked in comparison to what Casey has right now.

Clearly, I'm in the opinion that Casey is the better coach between the two

[TRex]

um, I beleive coach mitchell had one of the top 5 players in the NBA on his roster during the peak of said players career. I didn't like the way they let him go, but I'd take Casey over Mitchell any day of the week.

Mitchell imo is an awful analyst. If I had to listen to him call Raptors games I would probably start liking Leo Rautins.

Wow. Seriously??

And no Vince wasn't a top 5 player in 2004. 2001 yes, 2004 no.

Mitchell > Casey.

[Eric Akshinthala]

@Thead : Neither do I. Triano may not be a disciplinarian like casey, popovich, larry brown, but he knows his x's and o's. he has a much better offense than casey, and ball always moves(doesn't always rely on iso, whether it's carter, bosh, mike james, tj ford, bargs, derozan, gay, lowry, allan friggin andersen, john lucas). And we almost made it to the playoffs, and were actually a middle seed in the east before rupaul quit and shut himself down after the all-star weekend to go to southbeach (also with lebron screwing with us, played in a game vs raps = raps lost; DNP vs bulls = bulls won --> bulls got the 8th seed by 1 game).

I mentioned earlier that IMO the Raptors downfall started with Mitchell's exit, your post gives me an opportunity to say why. Triano's team almost made the play offs the following year but DIDN'T. It would've if Sam was the Coach. That team was easily the best team that BC has assembled as Raptors GM. So good that they were in 4th place at the all star break. Following the AS break, things fell apart to a point where Raps. fell out of the play off picture. While people blamed it on injuries, Hedo etc, I think it was entirely the Coach's fault. The ability to keep the team together SUCCESSFULLY when it matters is what Sam had and Triano absolutely didn't. IMO.

[golden]

The thing about Butch that makes me never want to touch him again with a 10 foot pole, is that he clearly didn't understand anything about managing players and relationships, both within the team, and in the league in general. We can talk about xs and os, and game prep, and motivation, and blah blah blah....but the hardest part of being a successful coach in the NBA is maintaing strong relationships with your players and your GM (who always has to have your back). I don't believe Butch was any good at that. His players didn't really like him, he went after his boss' job, he sued an ex-player...Dude has more ego than Michael Jordan...
.

I think Butch's issues have more to do with being a control freak, perfectionist type personality, than player relationship management. Basically, he got so paranoid of losing what he helped to build that it looked like he was after Glen Grunwald's job in the media, who also happened to be his long-time buddy. Universally, it seems that he had the respect of all his players, young and old, who credit him with helping them develop their games, beyond X's and O's. Butch maintained great relationships with the players. It's the GMs around the league who are scared turdless when they see how it all ended with Butch in Toronto. Even to this day, guys like Oakley, T-Mac and Vince still have high praise for Butch.

Oakley:"Butch is an accountable guy, he knows what he's doing. Like I told you, if he was the coach of the Miami Heat they would have won the Finals," Oakley said in an interview on Monday with Michael Landsberg on Off The Record. "Because in situations, he's the best, (runs a) great offence, he knows how to prepare. He gets you going, he has fun, but at practice, he'll work you harder than you worked before."

Vince:
"I think Butch would be a great coach. What he did for Tracy and I, as far just teaching us the game, pushing us ... there was no favouritism, put it that way," Vince Carter said. "He was great for us. I learned a lot, I learned how to play the game outside of the veterans we had. I think he would do great for a team of young guys."

T-Mac:
"He was on both of us, so hard. If I didn't play defence, I didn't play at all," McGrady added. "And I appreciated the challenge that he gave me every day and I just lived up to it. The X's and O's? He knows all about it.

"Some of those game-winning plays that we had? If you see (them) on the highlights of Vince? Butch drew all those plays up."

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=379922

[OldSchool]

TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.

What??? This group was definitely the best Raptor unit we've had thus far. How quickly people forget. Vince was killing it. Davis would have started on almost all teams back then. Willis (dude always amazed me with his energy despite being 97yrs old) woulda averaged a double double with starter minutes, Oakley's job was to be a presence down low and not let anyone punk Vince or the Raptors (and he did it well), Christie was an above average defender at the guard spot (i think top 5 in steals annually), Dee Brown was a much smarter player than Lucas and Curry was one of the best at what he was brought in for (spot up shots and 3) - this is not to mention Alvin (average player but fan favorite - ditto for Mugsy) and an up and coming TMac

If that group didn't make the playoffs I woulda hung Butch myself.

[golden]

What??? This group was definitely the best Raptor unit we've had thus far. How quickly people forget. Vince was killing it. Davis would have started on almost all teams back then. Willis (dude always amazed me with his energy despite being 97yrs old) woulda averaged a double double with starter minutes, Oakley's job was to be a presence down low and not let anyone punk Vince or the Raptors (and he did it well), Christie was an above average defender at the guard spot (i think top 5 in steals annually), Dee Brown was a much smarter player than Lucas and Curry was one of the best at what he was brought in for (spot up shots and 3) - this is not to mention Alvin (average player but fan favorite - ditto for Mugsy) and an up and coming TMac

If that group didn't make the playoffs I woulda hung Butch myself.

But why did Vince become a star so quickly? Why did T-Mac also develop quickly, being drafted as a high schooler, not even top 5. Both players credit Butch. Put Casey in the same situation and I think we all know Alan Anderson would be getting major minutes at the expense of both those guys.

[JimiCliff]

TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.

I gotta say, you're underselling that team a little. T-Mac was just about to explode into stardom, and you could tell. The numbers weren't there, but it was very obvious that he was about to hit a very high level (which he did next year). Davis had only been a backup because he was playing behind Smits. Oakley was still one of the best big man defenders in the league. They clearly weren't championship material, but it was a legitimate NBA roster up and down.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

But why did Vince become a star so quickly? Why did T-Mac also develop quickly, being drafted as a high schooler, not even top 5. Both players credit Butch. Put Casey in the same situation and I think we all know Alan Anderson would be getting major minutes at the expense of both those guys.

Agreed. DC has the potential to be a good coach but, after nearly two seasons, I'm seriously questioning if he was the best choice to lead a [re]building team full of young players. I just don't think he was the right fit - wrong roster and/or wrong time in the core's development cycle (though he would still have been a great choice as a defensive coordinator type assistant coach).

[Rapstor4Life]

We can blame this season on win now mentality and overall winning with making this Bargnani's team. Casey wasnt given a recipe for success here.

[TRex]

Sam Mitchell is on fire today!! lol! Love this guy as an analyst. He and Jack are a great combo. Very entertaining!