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  • #16
    DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    people seem to forget the team that Butch had...was prob. the best roster this team ever had! Smitch had a decent team but had them playing well above there talent level..id take Smitch over Butch any day
    Completely agree guys Butch wasnt a very good coach and in general not a very great person hes a pompous windbag to say the least. He was only successful cause from 1st-111th man he had the best roster in Raptors history anybody could win with the guys he had. There is nothing wrong with Dwane casey people leave the guy alone lol. As for Smitch I liked him definitely got a raw deal getting fired when he did not surprised he isnt coaching another team its a very competitive market and a coach getting fired doesnt step back into the head coaching gig again very much, id like to see him commentate for the raptors all season though think that would be awesome.

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    • #17
      Brendan Malone = GOAT
      LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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      • #18
        Not sure I understand the idea that Butch Carter had a stacked roster. He basically had an up-and-coming Carter, and spare parts.

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        • #19
          Lenny Wilkins...the most over-rated coach in NBA history. I don;t think he had much interest coaching the Raps. I'd take Smitch back right now.

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          • #20
            I don't understand the bashing of Triano...the man is the greatest Canadian head coach of an NBA team of all time in the entire history of the NBA.
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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            • #21
              Mitchell - coach of the year
              Jose- free throw record
              Kapono - 3 pt champion
              Ross- slam dunk champion

              We are Raptors fans-it's the small victories outside of actual wins that matter.

              I'd be fine if they brought back Smitch, Kapono, and Jose....
              Ahhh memories

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              • #22
                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                Not sure I understand the idea that Butch Carter had a stacked roster. He basically had an up-and-coming Carter, and spare parts.
                he had VC,TMac,ADavis,Oakley,Willis,Muggsy,Alvin Williams,dee brown,Christie,Dell Curry, that's hardly VC and spare parts!

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                • #23
                  @Thead : Neither do I. Triano may not be a disciplinarian like casey, popovich, larry brown, but he knows his x's and o's. he has a much better offense than casey, and ball always moves(doesn't always rely on iso, whether it's carter, bosh, mike james, tj ford, bargs, derozan, gay, lowry, allan friggin andersen, john lucas). And we almost made it to the playoffs, and were actually a middle seed in the east before rupaul quit and shut himself down after the all-star weekend to go to southbeach (also with lebron screwing with us, played in a game vs raps = raps lost; DNP vs bulls = bulls won --> bulls got the 8th seed by 1 game).
                  Last edited by 2KJ; Fri Mar 22, 2013, 01:55 PM.

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                  • #24
                    DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
                    he had VC,TMac,ADavis,Oakley,Willis,Muggsy,Alvin Williams,dee brown,Christie,Dell Curry, that's hardly VC and spare parts!
                    TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

                    Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.

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                    • #25
                      2KJ wrote: View Post
                      @Thead : Neither do I. Triano may not be a disciplinarian like casey, popovich, larry brown, but he knows his x's and o's. he has a much better offense than casey, and ball always moves(doesn't always rely on iso, whether it's carter, bosh, mike james, tj ford, bargs, derozan, gay, lowry, allan friggin andersen, john lucas). And we almost made it to the playoffs, and were actually a middle seed in the east before rupaul quit and shut himself down after the all-star weekend to go to southbeach (also with lebron screwing with us, played in a game vs raps = raps lost; DNP vs bulls = bulls won --> bulls got the 8th seed by 1 game).

                      I hate to rain on your parade, but I think thead's remark was sarcastic, because Triano wins by default.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #26
                        Nilanka wrote: View Post
                        TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

                        Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.
                        I think a key thing to mention here is that Butch Carter was working with solid veteran players, and not young rookies like Casey has to. I mean VC came into the league NBA ready and the rest of the squad was already tried and tested. Casey is dealing with a rookie C that isn't ready to start and DeMar who is basically just now showing he's ready to contribute. Davis was an All Star, and Oakley a kep player for a perenniel playoff team in New York. And Carters bench was stacked in comparison to what Casey has right now.

                        Clearly, I'm in the opinion that Casey is the better coach between the two

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                        • #27
                          Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                          um, I beleive coach mitchell had one of the top 5 players in the NBA on his roster during the peak of said players career. I didn't like the way they let him go, but I'd take Casey over Mitchell any day of the week.

                          Mitchell imo is an awful analyst. If I had to listen to him call Raptors games I would probably start liking Leo Rautins.
                          Wow. Seriously??

                          And no Vince wasn't a top 5 player in 2004. 2001 yes, 2004 no.

                          Mitchell > Casey.
                          Mamba Mentality

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                          • #28
                            2KJ wrote: View Post
                            @Thead : Neither do I. Triano may not be a disciplinarian like casey, popovich, larry brown, but he knows his x's and o's. he has a much better offense than casey, and ball always moves(doesn't always rely on iso, whether it's carter, bosh, mike james, tj ford, bargs, derozan, gay, lowry, allan friggin andersen, john lucas). And we almost made it to the playoffs, and were actually a middle seed in the east before rupaul quit and shut himself down after the all-star weekend to go to southbeach (also with lebron screwing with us, played in a game vs raps = raps lost; DNP vs bulls = bulls won --> bulls got the 8th seed by 1 game).

                            I mentioned earlier that IMO the Raptors downfall started with Mitchell's exit, your post gives me an opportunity to say why. Triano's team almost made the play offs the following year but DIDN'T. It would've if Sam was the Coach. That team was easily the best team that BC has assembled as Raptors GM. So good that they were in 4th place at the all star break. Following the AS break, things fell apart to a point where Raps. fell out of the play off picture. While people blamed it on injuries, Hedo etc, I think it was entirely the Coach's fault. The ability to keep the team together SUCCESSFULLY when it matters is what Sam had and Triano absolutely didn't. IMO.
                            Attitude Is A Choice.

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                            • #29
                              white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                              The thing about Butch that makes me never want to touch him again with a 10 foot pole, is that he clearly didn't understand anything about managing players and relationships, both within the team, and in the league in general. We can talk about xs and os, and game prep, and motivation, and blah blah blah....but the hardest part of being a successful coach in the NBA is maintaing strong relationships with your players and your GM (who always has to have your back). I don't believe Butch was any good at that. His players didn't really like him, he went after his boss' job, he sued an ex-player...Dude has more ego than Michael Jordan...
                              .
                              I think Butch's issues have more to do with being a control freak, perfectionist type personality, than player relationship management. Basically, he got so paranoid of losing what he helped to build that it looked like he was after Glen Grunwald's job in the media, who also happened to be his long-time buddy. Universally, it seems that he had the respect of all his players, young and old, who credit him with helping them develop their games, beyond X's and O's. Butch maintained great relationships with the players. It's the GMs around the league who are scared turdless when they see how it all ended with Butch in Toronto. Even to this day, guys like Oakley, T-Mac and Vince still have high praise for Butch.

                              Oakley:"Butch is an accountable guy, he knows what he's doing. Like I told you, if he was the coach of the Miami Heat they would have won the Finals," Oakley said in an interview on Monday with Michael Landsberg on Off The Record. "Because in situations, he's the best, (runs a) great offence, he knows how to prepare. He gets you going, he has fun, but at practice, he'll work you harder than you worked before."

                              Vince:
                              "I think Butch would be a great coach. What he did for Tracy and I, as far just teaching us the game, pushing us ... there was no favouritism, put it that way," Vince Carter said. "He was great for us. I learned a lot, I learned how to play the game outside of the veterans we had. I think he would do great for a team of young guys."

                              T-Mac:
                              "He was on both of us, so hard. If I didn't play defence, I didn't play at all," McGrady added. "And I appreciated the challenge that he gave me every day and I just lived up to it. The X's and O's? He knows all about it.

                              "Some of those game-winning plays that we had? If you see (them) on the highlights of Vince? Butch drew all those plays up."

                              http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=379922

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                              • #30
                                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                TMac and Christie were role players. Davis was a backup 1 year prior. Oakley was a grizzled vet well past his prime (even moreso for Willis). Alvin Williams barely saw the floor. Dee Brown was as "good" as John Lucas, and Curry was a one-dimensional shooter.

                                Like I said, Carter plus spare parts. Butch deserves credit for taking this group to the playoffs.
                                What??? This group was definitely the best Raptor unit we've had thus far. How quickly people forget. Vince was killing it. Davis would have started on almost all teams back then. Willis (dude always amazed me with his energy despite being 97yrs old) woulda averaged a double double with starter minutes, Oakley's job was to be a presence down low and not let anyone punk Vince or the Raptors (and he did it well), Christie was an above average defender at the guard spot (i think top 5 in steals annually), Dee Brown was a much smarter player than Lucas and Curry was one of the best at what he was brought in for (spot up shots and 3) - this is not to mention Alvin (average player but fan favorite - ditto for Mugsy) and an up and coming TMac

                                If that group didn't make the playoffs I woulda hung Butch myself.

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