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Thread: Can someone explain to me what Casey is doing wrong?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    I think you probably enjoyed last year more is both because of lower expectations and also because it was visibly obvious that guys were engaged in the strategy and the philosophy last year. This year, not so much. A team that's playing together, pulling the rope in the same direction, etc. is always more fun to watch and more easy to root for.

    Defense wins games. The old adage is true. Unfortunately, some NBA players like offense much better than defense, and more often than not, their OWN offense at the expense of the team's offense. It's on the coach to 'try' to curb that, but at some point, grown men are responsible for their own actions, and it doesn't always indicate that the coach is useless.
    Grown men are responsible for their own actions.... and that includes Casey. He was at the helm when the team went from nearly dead last defense to respectable and was rightfully applauded - BUT - he is also at the helm when the team went from respectable to joke again and is rightfully being booed.

    I don't believe I've ever said Casey is useless. I have disagreements with a lot of his ideology this season (usage of young players, usage of older players, usage of Bargnani, double standards) and I disagree with his strategies - especially on offense. The disagreements lead me to believe he is not maximizing the talent he has to work with. Those opinions don't lead to the conclusion he is 'useless'.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    from a Grantland article on Memphis:

    In sum, the team is just grinding, without interruption and with fewer errors. Gay can be a dynamic offensive player on the right night, and sussing out cause and effect in a 30-game sample size is usually a fool’s errand; the Grizz might regress at any moment, especially against top postseason defenses. But Gay was shooting a low percentage and hijacking possessions in a way that cut short that pass-and-screen-and-cut-and-pass grinding precision; even his supporters admit he has a maddening habit of keeping the ball after snagging a defensive rebound, dribbling up court, and launching a jumper without a single pass.
    Casey can't fix this. Only Rudy Gay can. Same goes for Lowry. I'm not indicting those players; they can be useful in the right situations/teams. They can also be very detrimental on the wrong teams.

    It's not about how you choose to label Casey; whatever the adjective, the opinion seems to be that he must go for the Raptors to succeed. My opinion is that, even if Casey goes, Toronto will not succeed. I fail to see any coach out there who can change a selfish player into a team player. And further, that Toronto CAN succeed with Casey, if the players buy in and give full effort to his strategies.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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  4. #83
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Last season we had more vets and relatively the same team we had for the past 4 years chemistry also helps Defense. Everyone this season is new and foolishly built around Bargnani who was a log all season.

    YAAA LETS GO WIN GAMES!!!!!! not Casey's problem judge him next season people Raps have had 8 coaches in 18 seasons.... thats DISGUSTING! fans clamoring to fire Casey lets go for our 9th & 10th coach in 19 seasons!!!! yaaaaa!!!

  5. #84
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Casey can't fix this. Only Rudy Gay can. Same goes for Lowry. I'm not indicting those players; they can be useful in the right situations/teams. They can also be very detrimental on the wrong teams.

    It's not about how you choose to label Casey; whatever the adjective, the opinion seems to be that he must go for the Raptors to succeed. My opinion is that, even if Casey goes, Toronto will not succeed. I fail to see any coach out there who can change a selfish player into a team player.
    Nice post Jimmie. Very good points.
    I'll agree with most of this, however, I believe there is one other thing, that isn't the 'Player' himself, that can fix a situation like that: Respected Veterans. Charles Oakley type veterans. Guys who aren't afraid to grab them by the arm and say "smarten up". Not saying there any vets like that available, but just wanted to add that in there.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Last season we had more vets and relatively the same team we had for the past 4 years chemistry also helps Defense. Everyone this season is new and foolishly built around Bargnani who was a log all season.

    YAAA LETS GO WIN GAMES!!!!!! not Casey's problem judge him next season people Raps have had 8 coaches in 18 seasons.... thats DISGUSTING! fans clamoring to fire Casey lets go for our 9th & 10th coach in 19 seasons!!!! yaaaaa!!!
    Who cares about the number of coaches this team has had?? Toronto has never had any significant success (playoff-wise), so why are you surprised? If this team needs to continue changing coaches in order to find something that works, than so be it.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  7. #86
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Who cares about the number of coaches this team has had?? Toronto has never had any significant success (playoff-wise), so why are you surprised? If this team needs to continue changing coaches in order to find something that works, than so be it.
    what do you mean who cares how many coaches the team has had? changing coaches is a big thing, players are like students, its very hard to be learning something one way than erase all that learn something else. To put it mildly its very confusing. You cant find something that works unless you give the coach a chance Pops systems Phils system Jerry Sloans system etc etc wasnt made in just 1 year it has to be instilled.

  8. #87
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    what do you mean who cares how many coaches the team has had? changing coaches is a big thing, players are like students, its very hard to be learning something one way than erase all that learn something else. To put it mildly its very confusing. You cant find something that works unless you give the coach a chance Pops systems Phils system Jerry Sloans system etc etc wasnt made in just 1 year it has to be instilled.
    A teams decision to change Coaches should not depend on the number of Coaches it has had over the years. If it is obvious that a coaching change is required, change should be made.

    While I totally agree that it takes time for a system to be instilled it is also true that despite losses, signs of a good coaching system are usually quite obvious. A good Coach is one who utilises the given resources to the maximum no matter how limited the resources are. Sloan, Phil and particularly Popovich are such Coaches. Casey seemed like one such Coach last year but has done a very poor job this year.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  9. #88
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    A teams decision to change Coaches should not depend on the number of Coaches it has had over the years. If it is obvious that a coaching change is required, change should be made.

    While I totally agree that it takes time for a system to be instilled it is also true that despite losses, signs of a good coaching system are usually quite obvious. A good Coach is one who utilises the given resources to the maximum no matter how limited the resources are. Sloan, Phil and particularly Popovich are such Coaches. Casey seemed like one such Coach last year but has done a very poor job this year.
    A reason for that, is possibly Casey himself tried to teach something new. We all know that Casey assumed the defense would stay the same, and deciding to emphasize a more offensive approach to the team. Such as trying to get the team running.
    He always seemed to mention it, and without question, it seemed he wanted to answer the offensive side of the ball. Casey was not consistent from year to year. Yes, it does take time for a system to be instilled, but at the same time, the coach needs to keep THE SAME approach and system consistently, for any team to actually develop or adapt to that mentality.

    Casey did a poor job of - like you said - maximizing the best out of the players, on an obviously more talented team compared to the previous. Lowry, Fields, JV, Ross, Lucas, some significant additions, yet we're still the same, if anything regressed on the overall play. Only thing that's changing is the actual record.

  10. #89
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Posted this in a gamethread, about Casey, Demar, Triano and development. Maybe it could add to this discussion, maybe not:


    I don't know, I think Demar and lots of Raps who have been here over the last 3-4 years suffered from Triano's presence. Triano didn't develop any of their (Bargnani, Demar, Ed, Amir...) skills very well. He did help a bit with Bargs' and Demar's offense, but not much else. In 2 seasons of Casey, those same guys have developed much better all-around. As much as I hate on Casey for his in-game management and rotations, I do believe behind the scenes he knows how to improve young players. Some guys both have had:
    -Amir is a far better all-around player now, and basically only his J improved a bit with Triano.
    -Ed made huge improvements clearly doing what the coaches asked him to in the summer, but is the hardest to blame Triano for with his injury one summer and lockout the next.
    -THis is the first year Demar has made noticeable (even if statistically small) improvements in non-scoring areas.
    ...
    -JV made huge strides even within the season...Which was partly why I was mystified by his handling at times, especially after the injury. He had clearly spent the whole time getting ready and listening to everything the coaches were saying.

    Also throw in the no-nonsense approach by Casey, which is harsh but probably for the best. IT cost both Bayless and JJ their jobs in Toronto....BUT, Bayless is a better player now, maybe finally humbled (much needed for him) and learning from his past mistakes. JJ is not, clearly not learning from his mistakes.

    Casey just needs to learn to have a bit more trust in his young guys in games, even if he doesn't want to play them in crunch time.

    *I never really had anythign against Triano, but now that I think of it, his time in Toronto was a complete failure.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue Apr 16th, 2013 at 08:02 AM.

  11. #90
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    It will be a better team and system when Casey trusts and he will JV has proved himself for an entire game kid is an engine. Casey isnt wrong however keep a leash on Ross though.

  12. #91
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Robert Horry was on Sportsnet590 last night talking hoops, and he said if the Raptors don't make the playoffs next year, he'll come and coach the team for free.

    I don't think I've ever laughed so hard while alone in my car....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  14. #92
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Robert Horry was on Sportsnet590 last night talking hoops, and he said if the Raptors don't make the playoffs next year, he'll come and coach the team for free.

    I don't think I've ever laughed so hard while alone in my car....
    This is what I think of when I think of Robert Horry and the suspensions that followed:

    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    That move won the Spurs a title

    This is what I think of when I think of Robert Horry:

    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  17. #94
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    No the flop or all flops is bosh against Boozer. The worst flop in the history of the nba, he reacted like 10 mins after Boozers elbow grazed his nose.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    But you guys forgot about when the referees helped the Lak...I mean when Horry helped the Lakers win the Conference Finals!!

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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    But you guys forgot about when the referees helped the Lak...I mean when Horry helped the Lakers win the Conference Finals!!

    ugh, fuck that moment

  20. #97
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    No the flop or all flops is bosh against Boozer. The worst flop in the history of the nba, he reacted like 10 mins after Boozers elbow didn't even touch his nose.
    ftfy

  21. #98
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Here is a great answer to the question "What is Casey doing wrong?" The Raptors do not have an offensive system. Casey spent all last season concentrating on offense that would be SHUT DOWN in the playoffs. Zach Lowe says it better than I ever could:

    The playoffs magnify the problems of being systemless. Give an elite defense two weeks to scout a single opponent with a blah offense, and that defense will smother those first options. If you can’t adapt on the fly, you might score at a bottom-five rate, as the Clippers did in the final five games of the Memphis series — a drought that began before Griffin’s ankle sprain. (The Clips actually put up a solid scoring number in the Game 6 closer, when Del Negro submitted one of the most bizarre coaching performances in recent NBA history.) The Clippers and Thunder are similar in that they built play-based offenses, and not systems, around multiple superstars, and learned in the postseason that those play-based offenses simply cannot be sustained without one of the two superstars.

    The Bulls provide an interesting contrast. Their offense is boring and unglamorous. They are allergic to the 3-point line. They’re slow in the perimeter when Nate Robinson is on the bench. They run the same three or four actions on just about every possession. But they make good use of all their personnel, and they run a continuous system — a pick-and-roll here flows into a dribble handoff there, which flows into a catch-and-shoot action or another pick-and-roll someplace else on the floor. The Bulls managed to squeeze out nearly 100 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs and a very decent 102.3 points per 100 possessions in their seven-game thriller against the Nets. They maintained something within hailing distance of an average offense despite spinal taps, dudes vomiting on the bench, plantar fasciitis, and a general lack of available NBA bodies. The Thunder couldn’t manage anything close to that without Russell Westbrook against Memphis, and the Clippers were right on Chicago’s playoff pace after their Game 1 romp.

    The Clippers’ offense was fine in the big picture. Del Negro actually designed some pretty nice stuff out of timeouts in that Memphis series, and he made smart use of blind back screens over the last two seasons — screens that took advantage of all the heads turned in Paul’s direction. But the playoffs are about the small picture. The opposition gets better, the margin of error shrinks to zero. Teams need to maximize every possession on both ends, and Del Negro was not the coach to bring out that maximization. A cadre of players, presumably including Paul, had reached that conclusion during the postseason, as ESPN.com’s Kevin Arnovitz reported on Tuesday.


    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...ess-in-the-nba
    The Raptors do not have any superstars in the same league as Westbrook or Griffin - let alone a second in players like Durant and Griffin. Coaches matter but I agree systems matter much more - offense and defense. The fact Casey spent so much time on offense - by his own admission resulting in the defense turning to mush as previous years before his arrival - is an indication that Casey is not the guy moving forward.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  22. #99
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    The thing isss. Will this new coach be able to get this team ready for a playoff run next season, in such limited time?
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  23. #100
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    The thing isss. Will this new coach be able to get this team ready for a playoff run next season, in such limited time?
    Will Casey? I have my doubts.

    The thing about a system is having the right players to fit it. So I do think a new coach would be able to get this team ready for a playoff run next season assuming the pieces fit.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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