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Thread: Canadian mens basketball team

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    A lot of what you say here is true, but I think what people including myself are excited about is the potential for a lot of these things to start to change. Yeah, there's a lack of veterans who would be great mentors (though Steve Nash working with the young PGs, as he did last summer, is about as great a learning experience as you can hope for). But by 2020, some of these guys are going to have 8+ years experience in the NBA, as well as several major international tournaments. By that point, they'll be ready to mentor the young guys coming up. Maybe we even have veterans who have been a part of championship teams in the NBA.

    The depth issue is also changing. It's not unrealistic to think that by 2020, he have as many as 25 players playing in the NBA, in d-leagues, or in top leagues in Europe (compared to only half-a-dozen a few years ago). Guys who would have been starters on Team Canada a few years ago probably wouldn't be able to make the cut in a few years. Yeah, it's still worlds behind the US in terms of number of players produced, but so is every other nation. As with other nations who rival Canada in hockey, what matters is top end talent, not sheer volume of players.

    Yes, Basketball Canada is underfunded, and completely outside the spotlight in the Canadian sports scene. But one superstar and one really good tournament will change that. If Wiggins develops into a superstar and participates in our national tournaments (as he's shown every indication he will to this point), corporations will be lining up to sponsor the team. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this year was the first year TSN picked up the MacDonalds All-American Game, because they know that there's enough interest in Wiggins that it's worth their while.

    I honestly don't have a problem with most of our players being developed in the US prep schools and NCAA. If that's the best and most competitive development system in the world, why wouldn't we want our guys going through there? As Basketball Canada gets better funding as their international results improve, they can do more, but what's the benefit in pouring money into duplicating a system that already exists south of the border and is entirely available to our kids? Instead, Basketball Canada needs to get as many kids as possible playing at a young age, identify talent as early as possible, and make sure that coaches at all levels have the knowledge and skill necessary to help these guys grow. But once they're sixteen or so, I'm fine with guys going the prep-school and NCAA route, as long as they're still playing for the national team at every available opportunity, and the national program is giving them all the additional support they need outside of their school to continue to develop. All of those top NCAA prospects playing together on CIA Bounce helps foster some chemistry and camaraderie amongst our best.

    In the one-step-at-a-time approach, let's see how many top players Basketball Canada can get out for FIBA Americas in August, and see if they can finish top 4 and get a qualification for FIBA Worlds next year.
    Can't argue too much.. and the bolded part is the kind of outlook i can fully get behind

    i do have issue with team canada being projected to be #2 based on potential alone, when the current #2 has an excellent track record on all levels, not just potential

    i don't have a problem with players going to the NCAA as much as i do have a problem with our internal development.

    it's great that the handful of quality players are going south to develop their game.. but what is Canada Basketball doing for the rest of the players? There's a shit ton more kids playing ball in Canada than that. Is Canada Basketball inviting these players to development camps? In the off-seasons, are these kids getting invited to compete in competitive tournaments? anything? i'm not asking to be facetious, i actually have no clue.. my knowledge on the matter goes back over a decade, when the answer would have been a straight up "NO".. maybe one of the younger board members can shed some light on this (Props? Rueben?).. is youth player development done strictly within the school level? Is Canada Basketball actually doing anything to help cultivate exceptional players, or are they sitting around waiting for the players to come to them?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    Can't argue too much.. and the bolded part is the kind of outlook i can fully get behind

    i do have issue with team canada being projected to be #2 based on potential alone, when the current #2 has an excellent track record on all levels, not just potential

    i don't have a problem with players going to the NCAA as much as i do have a problem with our internal development.

    it's great that the handful of quality players are going south to develop their game.. but what is Canada Basketball doing for the rest of the players? There's a shit ton more kids playing ball in Canada than that. Is Canada Basketball inviting these players to development camps? In the off-seasons, are these kids getting invited to compete in competitive tournaments? anything? i'm not asking to be facetious, i actually have no clue.. my knowledge on the matter goes back over a decade, when the answer would have been a straight up "NO".. maybe one of the younger board members can shed some light on this (Props? Rueben?).. is youth player development done strictly within the school level? Is Canada Basketball actually doing anything to help cultivate exceptional players, or are they sitting around waiting for the players to come to them?
    There are many basketball leagues around Ontario. They aren't that great compared to the US (Yet) but the players are pretty good. I don't know too much about it, since i haven't really played in any leagues. Around where i live not too many people are into basketball, i have a group of friends who love it but its only about like 5 or 6 of us. Brampton seems to be producing a shit ton of players, back when i used to live there no one used to play ball. I guess its because of all the Black people that got shifted there from Markham i think it was. Honestly i'm just rambling on, i don't know too much about how players get developed here seeing as i don't really play competitively too often. I'm pretty sure there are basketball Canada camps because of the commercials i've seen on NBA TV Canada. If you play really well for your high school team or rec league or whatever, they will most likely invite you to their summer camp. But this is all pure speculation on my part, i'll look into it and let you know.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    All of this talk of domestic systems is pretty unimportant. In the end, for Canada, it will be much more important to create a sense of pride for guys to want to come play, and to invest in that aspect of the programme accordingly.

    Invest in a top tier management and coaching staff. Hard to judge. Triano was actually a pretty good international coach, obviously helped by having Nash play for him. It would be hilarious if they hired Casey as a defensive specialist assistant.

    In terms of management, having Nash play a big role will be great for attracting both sponsors and players. He's also a true pro who knows what it takes to have that kind of programme. He'll recognize if things are lacking, because he knows what he needed to maintain his performance. If Nash can have an impact on the way the country presents an opportunity to develop its' players in the summer, that will be much bigger than any impact on the NBL or CIS basketball type things. They need guys to want to get together every summer and train together, not just throw things together before each tournament. This means they also need roster consistency, which should be possible with the talent crop coming in. THey need to make it attractive and easy for these guys to juggle the pro life and play for the national team.

    Talent is by far the most important thing. Spain is a funny example, because they were hardly a powerhouse in European basketball, until Gasol developed. The players their system produces that stay in their system are not better than players produced(and playing) in places like Greece, Lithuania, Russia, Serbia, Croatia....Gasol's development paid immediate dividends, and his whole generation has produced some pretty talented players, but also the team is filled with pretty standard role players. The development of that generation was largely inspired by the Dream team at the Barcelona Olympics, not by national heroes. Hopefully, their young generation will be similarly inspired now that they have guys to look up to...unfortunately, their country is in the economic crapper and probably going to cut money from athletics for awhile.

    The development of Canada's generation is similarly largely inspired by more exposure to the NBA game from the Grizzlies and Raptors, and helped by Canada having at least one national hero of the game in Nash. It never mattered having good domestic systems. It's up to Canada Basketball not to squander that enthusiasm, because if they get this generation to commit (and treat them the right way), then future generations should follow. They need to capitalize on the chance for success, because it can really snowball into the future.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 11th, 2013 at 04:22 PM.

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  5. #44
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    For the curious, Tristan Thompson has shown a right-handed jump shot the past three games. Not a push shot (which he developed earlier this season), a jump shot.

    He also swished a 20 footer after a whistle yesterday, again shot right-handed.

    Tristan continues to maintain he's left handed.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Honestly Canada basketball is rapidly increasing in popularity and exposure. The NBL seems like nothing right now, but a couple of years down the road i can see it being like the CHL or CFL. Where we'll actually see players from the NBL enter the draft and get drafted. Basketball is getting steadily popular in Canada as it should
    This will not happen as all the players in that league will have already been draft eligible, we may see free agents get some looks, but not drafted.

  7. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I don't think it is if you look at the influex of talent coming out of Canada. Andrew wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Tristan Thompson, kabongo, Corey Joseph, kris Joseph, XRM(surprised no one mentioned him), Kelly olynick, Kevin pangos, Andrew Nicholson, and sacre.
    Another guard that should get more publicity is Olivier Hanlan, he was the ACC rookie of the year for Boston College. XRM has not proven it yet at the college level, but I am sure he will be solid as will Tyler Ennis. Don't rule out a guy like Phil Scrubb from Carleton being a mainstay on Team Canada as well.

  8. #47
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    I thought this might be pertinent to the conversation:
    "A basketball player from British Columbia emerges as an NCAA standout at a West-coast NCAA university, before taking his game to the pros as a pioneer of Canadian Basketball. It’s a story all Canadian basketball fans are familiar with, but with an unexpected twist. This isn’t the story of Steve Nash – this story takes place 40 years earlier, and his name is Bob Houbregs.

    Standing 6-7, 225 pounds, the Vancouver-native Houbregs attended the University of Washington from 1949 to 1953 where he completed a stellar college career. In 1952, Houbregs was a Second Team Consensus All-America selection. As a senior in 1953, he was named NCAA Player of the Year, was a Consensus All-America selection, helped lead the University of Washington to the Final Four, and was named to the All-Tournament team after averaging 34.8 points in the post-season.

    The NBA was still very young when Houbregs entered the professional ranks. The Basketball Association of America (BAA) and the National Basketball League (NBL) had merged just four years earlier, in 1949, and taken the name National Basketball Association (NBA).

    “Houby” became the first Canadian to be drafted in the first round of the newly-formed NBA when he was selected second overall in the 1953 NBA draft by the Milwaukee Hawks the year before the shot clock was introduced. His selection remains the highest a Canadian has ever been picked in the NBA draft.

    The 6-7 post player displayed an accurate hook shot and averaged 9.3 points, 5.5 rebounds and 1.8 assists over his five-year NBA career with Milwaukee, the Baltimore Bullets, Boston Celtics, and Fort Wayne/ Detroit Pistons. Houbregs later served as general manager of the Seattle SuperSonics from 1970 to 1973.

    He was inducted to the Basketball Hall of Fame as a player in 1987. In 2000, Houbregs was inducted into the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame for his significant contributions to the sport."
    http://www.basketball.ca/looking-bac...border-p153874

  9. #48
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Just wrote an email to Canada Basketball http://www.basketball.ca/

    Subject line was titled "What Does Canada Basketball Do?"

    I mean, I am a fan of the game. I am am fan of basketball in Canada...how come I don't know what they do? I have been to their site many times, and today I spent some time looking over it, to try and post some juicy tidbits here, since it was one of the topics under discussion. Today for the first time I realized how bad their website is, in terms of explaining what they do. Anyway, below is my email. I encourage any of you to contact them as well, with questions or suggestions. Let's not simply whine about stuff, but encourage improvement. Let's get out to a few "Friendlies" and cheer on the team.


    "So, just what do you do? I have been all over your website, looked at pictures of teams, read policies and procedures, but I have been unable to find a simple (or complicated) explanation of what Canada Basketball does.

    I am 62 years old, still playing recreational basketball and a fan of the Raptors. I was at an online fan site where there were three pages of posts on Canadian basketball (46 posts since March 31st, 2013) and the writers were trying to understand what the national program did. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

    I think it would help your website, and encourage more public monetary support or corporate sponsorship if you had a couple of pages discussing your actual activities. How does a young player get identified? How does he receive an invite to camps or tournaments? What training does occur? How do you decide what tournaments to play in? How do you identify coaches? What does sponsorship of contributions pay for? Can spectators come to watch training camps or intra-squad play? How come I can't download the events calendar to my Google Calendar? Where are the player/coaches blogs, to add a human element to the players?

    I am a big fan of basketball and am aching to be a big fan of Canadian Basketball. I would even like to contribute some cash, but I don't understand what I am contributing to."

  10. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Very well said Puffer. They need to step it up and promote Canada Basketball way more, if they want more recognition. There's a Canada basketball commercial that appears on nba tv canada every once and a while but it just shows dudes doing drills and stuff.

    *Edit* Found the video

    Last edited by NoPropsneeded; Sun May 5th, 2013 at 09:48 PM.

  11. #50
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Very well said Puffer. They need to step it up and promote Canada Basketball way more, if they want more recognition. There's a Canada basketball commercial that appears on nba tv canada every once and a while but it just shows dudes doing drilling and stuff.
    That video is on their website. Pretty lame stuff.

    If they want me to get behind Canada Basketball, I've got to know what they do, beyond "supporting and developing the game of basketball in Canada." (just made that up, not a quote off their site)

    I mean World Vision, Sierra Club, Salvation Army, Diabetes Foundation, these organizations have made it pretty clear what they are doing. People have a reason to support them. It's not rocket science. Just tell me in words of eight letters or less, what you do.

  12. #51
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    Canada Basketball runs national team programs and participates in FIBA tournaments.

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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Canada Basketball runs national team programs and participates in FIBA tournaments.
    I realized that stretch, but I was interested in a little more detail.

    I got a reply from Herb Fung, Communications Coordinator for Canada Basketball.

    "Hello Paul,

    Thank you for your email. You make valid points. We will take them into consideration as our website evolves.

    In the meantime, I can tell you that Canada Basketball is the governing body for basketball in Canada and our major responsibility is to develop and train athletes, coaches and officials to represent Canada internationally.

    We work closely with our member provincial and territorial basketball organizations in athlete development and identification programs. Much of our identification of athletes and coaches comes through our member organizations. We work with them to develop the parameters of what we’re looking for in athletes and coaches.

    We also run, in partnership with the provincial and territorial organizations, national championships for Under 15 and Under 17 boys and girls every summer.

    Sponsorships and donations are all invested in program development for our athletes, coaches and officials.

    Our national team programs are summer based as that is when the international basketball events are held. For example this summer, our Under 19 women’s and men’s teams will compete at the FIBA World Championships in Lithuania and Czech Republic, respectively. Our U16 young women and young men’s teams will compete at the FIBA Americas Championships in Mexico and Uruguay, respectively.

    We work hard to develop basketball in this country and we take your comments to heart.

    Thank you for taking the time to write to us.




    Herb Fung
    Communications Coordinator
    1 Westside Drive, Suite 11
    Toronto, ON M9C 1B2
    Tel: 416.614.8037 x 217 // Fax: 416.614.9570 // Email: [email protected]
    www.basketball.ca"

    Not very detailed, but a nice, concise summary. I wrote back and suggested areas and ways to expand on the explanation.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  14. #53
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I realized that stretch, but I was interested in a little more detail.

    I got a reply from Herb Fung, Communications Coordinator for Canada Basketball.

    "Hello Paul,

    Thank you for your email. You make valid points. We will take them into consideration as our website evolves.

    In the meantime, I can tell you that Canada Basketball is the governing body for basketball in Canada and our major responsibility is to develop and train athletes, coaches and officials to represent Canada internationally.

    We work closely with our member provincial and territorial basketball organizations in athlete development and identification programs. Much of our identification of athletes and coaches comes through our member organizations. We work with them to develop the parameters of what we’re looking for in athletes and coaches.

    We also run, in partnership with the provincial and territorial organizations, national championships for Under 15 and Under 17 boys and girls every summer.

    Sponsorships and donations are all invested in program development for our athletes, coaches and officials.

    Our national team programs are summer based as that is when the international basketball events are held. For example this summer, our Under 19 women’s and men’s teams will compete at the FIBA World Championships in Lithuania and Czech Republic, respectively. Our U16 young women and young men’s teams will compete at the FIBA Americas Championships in Mexico and Uruguay, respectively.

    We work hard to develop basketball in this country and we take your comments to heart.

    Thank you for taking the time to write to us.




    Herb Fung
    Communications Coordinator
    1 Westside Drive, Suite 11
    Toronto, ON M9C 1B2
    Tel: 416.614.8037 x 217 // Fax: 416.614.9570 // Email: [email protected]
    www.basketball.ca"

    Not very detailed, but a nice, concise summary. I wrote back and suggested areas and ways to expand on the explanation.

    Inquiring minds want to know.
    You're going HAM

  15. #54
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    You're going HAM
    Gotta get this shit goin'. Don't need no soft boys. Time to start getting stoked. Canada Basketball going to explode on the scene.

  16. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Gotta get this shit goin'. Don't need no soft boys. Time to start getting stoked. Canada Basketball going to explode on the scene.
    Are you sure you are 62?

  17. #56
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Are you sure you are 62?
    He's 62!?

  18. #57
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Continuing communications with Canada Basketball. I replied to Herb Fung's email back to me as below:

    "Herb, thank you for your reply. It is concise, to the point and a nice, simple explanation. You could put this on your website just at it is written.

    If you could then expand on

    1. "We work closely with..."

    How does this work. How about an example. Pick 2 or 3 athletes that were identified and show the different ways that this identification can occur.

    2. "We also run..."

    Who is responsible for what? How does funding get arranged? etc.

    3. "Sponsorships and donations are all invested in program development ..."

    Examples of development programs? Personal training programs? Exercise programs? Assessments?

    4. "Our national team programs are summer based..."

    This part is more or less self-explanatory, though the thinking behind what tournaments to enter and the kind of activities the team participates in running up to the tournaments would be interesting.

    I do appreciate your taking the time to reply Herb. There is a lot of interest in Canada's basketball programs, as I am sure you are seeing. That means more people wanting more details.

    I still think it would be interesting to get some of the various team members to blog about their activities. Sort of day in the life stuff. I am almost sure you would find one or two volunteers for each team. I believe it would provide great human interest material.

    Paul Stevens"

    I then got another reply back from Mr. Fung:

    "Good afternoon Paul,

    Here are a few answers to your questions.

    1. This is difficult to answer concisely as there are multiple ways to be identified. If you consider Natalie Achonwa (2012 Olympian), she played club basketball in Guelph, Ontario. She competed in tournaments and provincial championships and was noticed by other coaches who suggested she try out for the Centres of Performance program (a Canada Basketball high performance program delivered by Ontario basketball). From there, she was selected by U15 Team Ontario for the provincial team to compete at national championships; from there, she progressed onto the U17 Team Ontario. Ontario Basketball runs these programs and Canada Basketball’s role is talent identification for potential national team athletes.



    Canada Basketball identified Natalie to play on the junior national team at the U18 Fiba Americas competition (Canada’s zone inside FIBA). She was then invited to train with Canada Basketball’s National Elite Development Academy in Hamilton, Ontario in her senior high school years.



    Kelly Olynyk has been a member of Canada Basketball’s national team program for many years. He also began playing club basketball in Ontario before his family moved to Kamloops, B.C. Kelly played high school basketball and trained in the Centres for Performance program in B.C. He was selected for the U15, then the U17 B.C. teams. He was identified for the U19 national team and the National Elite Development Academy. He has been a member of the senior men’s squad for a couple of years.



    The early development and identification begins at the provincial level and the athlete then moves up to the national level.

    2. The provincial and territorial associations pay for their teams to train and compete at national championships.

    3. All three of your suggestions are examples of how sponsorships and donations are invested into program development. We also have a national targeted athlete strategy and we build programs around specific athletes.

    4. Our national teams train and compete in “friendly” matches in preparation for “major” events. The major events include the FIBA Americas Championships (North, Central and South America). Usually the top 1-4 teams will advance from this championship to the World Championships or the Olympics. The number of teams that advance is dependent upon the next scheduled event according to the FIBA competition calendar.


    In terms of the suggestions you’ve put forward regarding the website, we will definitely take them into consideration as we look to continue building content. We would be happy to introduce new information to keep our audiences engaged and interested in our athletes and teams. Please stay tuned to our website as we do have some planned updates coming soon.

    I hope the above information has been helpful.

    Take care.

    Herb"

    I am well satisfied with the communications so far, but they really need someone to manage their organization/corporate/public interface a little better. It seems they are doing alright on the corporate end, but they could ramp up the public info a little.

    At least we know a little more about them now than we did before.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Are you sure you are 62?
    Wouldn't lie. I remember the Everly Brothers first hit single, Presley, the Kennedy assassination, Leafs winning the Stanley Cup and the first men on the moon. Of them all, I think the Leaf Stanley Cup win was faked on a CBC back lot somewhere.

  20. #59
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    These guys are going to want to retire after you're done skewing the shit out of their website lol

  21. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Wouldn't lie. I remember the Everly Brothers first hit single, Presley, the Kennedy assassination, Leafs winning the Stanley Cup and the first men on the moon. Of them all, I think the Leaf Stanley Cup win was faked on a CBC back lot somewhere.
    you have got to be the coolest grandpa ever haha

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