Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 99

Thread: Casey: JV would be coming out of games if Raps were in Playoff Race

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    So weird that Casey and DeMar, both professionals in the NBA seem to think JV makes a lot of mistakes but most everone here beleive that JV is currently the best player to have on the floor at all times. What they heck could they know that we don't?
    I was surprised to hear that from DeRozan (who himself still makes a ton of defensive mistakes).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I was surprised to hear that from DeRozan (who himself still makes a ton of defensive mistakes).
    And here we have the main problem (at least 'my' main problem) with Casey's statements. It's not like we are a winning team when not playing the rookies.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,191
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I was surprised to hear that from DeRozan (who himself still makes a ton of defensive mistakes).
    Yeah, if DeMar is laughing about how many mistakes JV is making then clearly we fans with our rosey coloured glasses might as well be watching a brick wall instead of the game on tv 'cause we are obviously missing something. Nah, I maintain it's the pro's that are crazy and we're all right on the money.

  4. Like p00ka liked this post
  5. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    2,244
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    And here we have the main problem (at least 'my' main problem) with Casey's statements. It's not like we are a winning team when not playing the rookies.
    Exactly. His mistakes couldn't have been much worse than anyone elses earlier this season if they lost all the time with awful team defense anyway, regardless of who was playing

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,189
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    My concern is that I assume those times he wouldn't normally be playing JV is in the 4th quarter of a tight game, similar to his usage during most of the season. I understand the instinct to shy away from throwing rookies to the fire, so to speak, but it makes absolutely no sense to me when the rookie in question has played a game where he's the best player on the court. Also, how is a young player going to gain experience playing in those types of situations, if he's never given the chance? I don't get what stopped DC from playing JV in those moments, keeping him on a short leash - he just never game him a chance to begin with.

    As for more general usage, I am fully on board with rookies getting a quick hook anytime in a game when they make a mistake - ie: one from lack of effort, or laziness running a play, etc... However, I don't understand the concept of keeping the rookie on the bench for the remainder of the game, which is exactly what DC did with both JV & Ross many times earlier in the year. I think it makes more sense to yank the player, talk to them on the bench and make them understand what they did wrong, while reviewing the change that needs to be made to avoid making the same mistake. Then the player needs to get back into the same game, against the same opponents, running the same gameplan, to prove that they are able to learn from their mistakes and take the benching/coaching to heart. That's what I found to be lacking from DC all season - not giving his rookies a chance to prove themselves after being called out for an initial mistake.
    Once again I am going to encourage you to actually watch the video, and if you have, pay more attention to the context. This was right after our loss to Detroit, where their big men absolutely abused JV on defense. He said if we were in the playoff hunt, he would have probably pulled JV out when he was making so many defensive mistakes against Detroit's big men. That's all, and it makes perfect sense. Since we're not in the playoff hunt, he let JV play through the mistakes and we lost the game. Not necessarily because of JV, but his poor defense definitely contributed to the loss. I'm thankful we're out of the playoff race so wins don't matter as much, and now we can let JV give up easy buckets without having to sit him.

  7. Like p00ka liked this post
  8. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    2,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Once again I am going to encourage you to actually watch the video, and if you have, pay more attention to the context. This was right after our loss to Detroit, where their big men absolutely abused JV on defense. He said if we were in the playoff hunt, he would have probably pulled JV out when he was making so many defensive mistakes against Detroit's big men. That's all, and it makes perfect sense. Since we're not in the playoff hunt, he let JV play through the mistakes and we lost the game. Not necessarily because of JV, but his poor defense definitely contributed to the loss. I'm thankful we're out of the playoff race so wins don't matter as much, and now we can let JV give up easy buckets without having to sit him.
    Demar Derozan has averaged 37 MPG. Rudy Gay has average 35 MPG. Lowry, ~30MPG. In fact, even AA has averaged more MPG (24) than Val (23.5). Of the current roster, Val is 10th in terms of USG%. His DRTG is beaten only by Amir and Gay (among regulars) and tied with Lowry. His ORTG, among regulars, is only topped by Amir.

    Question: Has Dwayne Casey ever come out and said, "Man, you know, if Derozan could shoot better than 43% from the field or make a 3 or if Alan Anderson didn't shoot 39% from the field we'd have won that game? Or if Rudy didn't go 4-17 we'd have had a chance." If so, I'd love to see it.

    My point was never about handling the rookies' minutes or to question whether they make mistakes. My issue was with the coach publicly pinning a loss (and the recent losing in general) on two rookies. One of whom hardly plays and another guy that has been, over the last month or so, one of the team's most effective players.

  9. Like isaacthompson liked this post
  10. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,191
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Demar Derozan has averaged 37 MPG. Rudy Gay has average 35 MPG. Lowry, ~30MPG. In fact, even AA has averaged more MPG (24) than Val (23.5). Of the current roster, Val is 10th in terms of USG%. His DRTG is beaten only by Amir and Gay (among regulars) and tied with Lowry. His ORTG, among regulars, is only topped by Amir.

    Question: Has Dwayne Casey ever come out and said, "Man, you know, if Derozan could shoot better than 43% from the field or make a 3 or if Alan Anderson didn't shoot 39% from the field we'd have won that game? Or if Rudy didn't go 4-17 we'd have had a chance." If so, I'd love to see it.

    My point was never about handling the rookies' minutes or to question whether they make mistakes. My issue was with the coach publicly pinning a loss (and the recent losing in general) on two rookies. One of whom hardly plays and another guy that has been, over the last month or so, one of the team's most effective players.
    Maybe I'm off here because I never listened to the interview, but the players you mentioned in the bold are what they are at this point. They are poor shooters and there is no changing that during the course of the game so you have to roll with what you got. However JV was playing an integral role defesively agaist Detroit's strength which is their post players. For example if JV was where he should be in the defensive scheme and contests a shot and the shooter hits his shot anyways then you tip your hat to him and say it's no ones fault that they guy made the shot, but if JV isn't where he should be and the guy makes that same shot open and uncontested then there is an issue. If JV is continually not where he needs to be defensively and the Raptors were still in the play off hunt then hell yeah they should yank him.

  11. Like p00ka liked this post
  12. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,536
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Yeah, if DeMar is laughing about how many mistakes JV is making then clearly we fans with our rosey coloured glasses might as well be watching a brick wall instead of the game on tv 'cause we are obviously missing something. Nah, I maintain it's the pro's that are crazy and we're all right on the money.
    Dude, your sarcasm is so subtle I nearly missed it entirely!

    To everyone else -- Jonas is playing more minutes than most big guys do in their rookie year. Okay, so Casey threw him under the bus and that can be seen as unprofessional. I don't see Jonas crying about it. This isn't Andrea Bargnani who shoots poorly because his fans rightfully booed him. Jonas is a man, he can handle it.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  13. #49
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,289
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Dude, your sarcasm is so subtle I nearly missed it entirely!

    To everyone else -- Jonas is playing more minutes than most big guys do in their rookie year. Okay, so Casey threw him under the bus and that can be seen as unprofessional. I don't see Jonas crying about it. This isn't Andrea Bargnani who shoots poorly because his fans rightfully booed him. Jonas is a man, he can handle it.
    My beef is how DC has changed his management of the rookies since being eliminted from playoff contention. I thought this team was still in a (re)building phase, where individual player development and on-court chemistry among the core players moving forward was paramount, with victories and standings being secondary. There was never any talk of playoffs from ownership/management, which is why I don't understand/agree with this current approach not being the approach to this season from day one.

  14. Like white men can't jump liked this post
  15. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,536
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I guess you meant *hasn't*.

    I agree in full extent, that we should be playing the rookies and young guys extensively at this point. But that never happens. Look around the league -- unless a starter/vet has been shut down for injuries, teams simply do not employ the let's-develop-our-young-guys-by-giving-them-copious-minutes-now-that-the-games-don't-matter-anymore strategy.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  16. #51
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,289
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I guess you meant *hasn't*.

    I agree in full extent, that we should be playing the rookies and young guys extensively at this point. But that never happens. Look around the league -- unless a starter/vet has been shut down for injuries, teams simply do not employ the let's-develop-our-young-guys-by-giving-them-copious-minutes-now-that-the-games-don't-matter-anymore strategy.
    No, I did mean to say "has", since he has admitted to changing his approach. On a competitive team that is realistically thinking playoffs, I would agree wholeheartedly with rookies having to earn their court time. However, on rebuilding teams, the high draft picks typically get lots of playing time to develop on-court in real game situations. Plus, I think there's a wide gap between the amount of time the Raptors' rookies were getting the first half of the season (often < 15 MPG, with many DNPs) and 'starters minutes'. This Raptors team was never realistically going to challenge for playoffs this year - both last year and this year SHOULD have been treated like building years (essentially 'tank' by developing young players ahead of worrying about a winning record)... the blame for that not being the case falls to both BC & DC, I think.

  17. #52
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    3,919
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think that people are a little too in love Jonas. We shouldn't jump to conclusion. Wasn't everybody on this forum saying that we should take anything that happen in the last 15 games serious? Casey might just have a point I like to know what a record is when Jonas plays 25+ minutes. I love Jonas too but, the coach does trust in key moments it has to be for a reaso..

  18. #53
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,289
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I think that people are a little too in love Jonas. We shouldn't jump to conclusion. Wasn't everybody on this forum saying that we should take anything that happen in the last 15 games serious? Casey might just have a point I like to know what a record is when Jonas plays 25+ minutes. I love Jonas too but, the coach does trust in key moments it has to be for a reaso..
    My argument is that trust is earned and if somebody is never given the opportunity to earn that trust, how can they ever possibly hope to be trusted? It's a 'chicken and the egg' argument, I get it.

  19. #54
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    5,826
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I think that people are a little too in love Jonas. We shouldn't jump to conclusion. Wasn't everybody on this forum saying that we should take anything that happen in the last 15 games serious? Casey might just have a point I like to know what a record is when Jonas plays 25+ minutes. I love Jonas too but, the coach does trust in key moments it has to be for a reaso..
    Ok, DC defensive coach, he doesn't like rookie defense, this is it. He never seen ( JV ) that speed, talent in Europe. NBA is different animal for him, especially in the defense event. Anyway, I like this kid so much, he still has plenty of thinks to develop ( yup. ) but I hope he'll continue work hard and prove either its DC or other coach that they are wrong not playing him 30+ mins every game. It's very hard to find kid like this with 4.2L motor. ( Yes, I'm fan of Faried too. )

    By the way, take a look at Tristan T PER 15.77 and JV PER 15.59 ! We have to like this.

  20. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,887
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    People are defending Casey?? Why? His rotations, apart from just rookies, have been horrible all season. Questionable subs at questionable times. A very obvious disdain for players he doesn't see as effective for whatever reason, perhaps because they're young. Saw it with JJ (who was obviously to blame though). Saw it with Ed (who improved signficantly but was still "worse" than Bargs to Casey until Bargs got injured). Seeing it now with Jonas (who deserves a longer leash) and Ross (who probably doesn't).

    Casey gets stubbornly attached to the vision he has of the team and how it needs to be successful. When he came here, he clearly decided that was going to be with Andrea and Demar being the key players on the team. As things went on, you can just sub out Andrea, and put Rudy and Alan in his place. Anderson does make fewer mistakes than Ross, but he's also far from perfect. He was allowed to play himself out of a dreadful slump post-Gay trade that I honestly thought would have him nailed to the bench for the rest of the year given how Casey was treating his other guys. And I'm not even saying he should've played Ross, but he had other pieces, like Fields to name one, who he could've used instead. And Fields is a great example of why there's no accountability in Casey's system, because he's one of the most mistake-free players we have, especially on D, and he gets no burn.

    *Accountability is important, and I think it's the biggest problem with Casey's coaching, and it affects everything..rotations, offensive and defensive execution. It shakes confidence, makes guys press, makes others complacent....it's not good for the team. Guys have generally, I think, not known what's expected of them consistently. Not just rookies, but basically everyone except for Casey's "guys", which are Amir, Demar, Rudy (now), Andrea (still, really, he's just injured), Alan....that's it. Jose was one before as well. At times, I think it has affected Lowry, Ross, Fields, Lucas, Ed (when he was here), Jonas, Kleiza....I think many players on the team would not be willing to put up with another year of Casey if he keeps the same inconsistent approach.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 4th, 2013 at 04:44 PM.

  21. Like Fully, CalgaryRapsFan liked this post
  22. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1,189
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    People are defending Casey?? Why? His rotations, apart from just rookies, have been horrible all season. Questionable subs at questionable times. A very obvious disdain for players he doesn't see as effective for whatever reason, perhaps because they're young. Saw it with JJ (who was obviously to blame though). Saw it with Ed (who improved signficantly but was still "worse" than Bargs to Casey until Bargs got injured). Seeing it now with Jonas (who deserves a longer leash) and Ross (who probably doesn't).

    Casey gets stubbornly attached to the vision he has of the team and how it needs to be successful. When he came here, he clearly decided that was going to be with Andrea and Demar being the key players on the team. As things went on, you can just sub out Andrea, and put Rudy and Alan in his place. Anderson does make fewer mistakes than Ross, but he's also far from perfect. He was allowed to play himself out of a dreadful slump post-Gay trade that I honestly thought would have him nailed to the bench for the rest of the year given how Casey was treating his other guys. And I'm not even saying he should've played Ross, but he had other pieces, like Fields to name one, who he could've used instead. And Fields is a great example of why there's no accountability in Casey's system, because he's one of the most mistake-free players we have, especially on D, and he gets no burn.

    *Accountability is important, and I think it's the biggest problem with Casey's coaching, and it affects everything..rotations, offensive and defensive execution. It shakes confidence, makes guys press, makes others complacent....it's not good for the team. Guys have generally, I think, not known what's expected of them consistently. Not just rookies, but basically everyone except for Casey's "guys", which are Amir, Demar, Rudy (now), Andrea (still, really, he's just injured), Alan....that's it. Jose was one before as well. At times, I think it has affected Lowry, Ross, Fields, Lucas, Ed (when he was here), Jonas, Kleiza....I think many players on the team would not be willing to put up with another year of Casey if he keeps the same inconsistent approach.
    I'm not defending Casey, I'm calling bullshit on the OP and his summary of what Casey said. I'd be fine with Casey being fired, I don't think he's done a great job, but he sure as shit didn't say what the OP is implying.

  23. Like white men can't jump liked this post
  24. #57
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,887
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I'm not defending Casey, I'm calling bullshit on the OP and his summary of what Casey said. I'd be fine with Casey being fired, I don't think he's done a great job, but he sure as shit didn't say what the OP is implying.
    Yeah, he didn't say things in such a bad way, but it still was poor form to say what he did, especially about the Pistons game. Maybe he just needed to slow down and think, because while Ross maybe wasn't much help, JV was arguably the biggest reason they were in that game at all, and why they won the first meeting against Detroit.

    To me something just smells off about Casey's coaching this season, and it starts with how he's handling the guys.

  25. Like JimiCliff liked this post
  26. #58
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,559
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Demar Derozan has averaged 37 MPG. Rudy Gay has average 35 MPG. Lowry, ~30MPG. In fact, even AA has averaged more MPG (24) than Val (23.5). Of the current roster, Val is 10th in terms of USG%. His DRTG is beaten only by Amir and Gay (among regulars) and tied with Lowry. His ORTG, among regulars, is only topped by Amir.

    Question: Has Dwayne Casey ever come out and said, "Man, you know, if Derozan could shoot better than 43% from the field or make a 3 or if Alan Anderson didn't shoot 39% from the field we'd have won that game? Or if Rudy didn't go 4-17 we'd have had a chance." If so, I'd love to see it.

    My point was never about handling the rookies' minutes or to question whether they make mistakes. My issue was with the coach publicly pinning a loss (and the recent losing in general) on two rookies. One of whom hardly plays and another guy that has been, over the last month or so, one of the team's most effective players.
    This is Colangelo all over again. We saw this when he had Sam Mitchell be easy on Bargs during his tenure...he's protecting his star players because that's what he's getting paid to do.

    To convince me that he's a capable NBA coach, he needs to hold all players accountable and single out guys in the media rooms and press conferences. When Rudy and DeMar have these 5-17 games and so on, he needs to stop with the bullshitting like, "oh, we didn't hustle to the boards" or "we need to run back on defense". Only will he earn my respect when he goes to the mic and says, like you said, "Yeah, Rudy sucked tonight. It happens."

    Just a proposition, but maybe it'll motivate the players if they know he'll start publicly singling them out after horrific outings.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  27. #59
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,873
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Yeah, if DeMar is laughing about how many mistakes JV is making then clearly we fans with our rosey coloured glasses might as well be watching a brick wall instead of the game on tv 'cause we are obviously missing something. Nah, I maintain it's the pro's that are crazy and we're all right on the money.
    These two pros have devoted a large part of their offensive philosophy (the coach with his schemes, and the player with his choice of 'weapon' to develop/in-game execution) to long two point jump shots, which is commonly known as the worst shot in basketball. This simple fact makes me question any strategic ideas that they have.

    And Demar is a pro because of he's a freak athlete. You don't have to watch him play for very long to see that natural basketball IQ isn't one of his gifts.

  28. #60
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    1,524
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Anyone who`s interested watch April 3 interview. He gives lots of attention to JV and the rookie situation.

    You guys need to relax on the Casey hate. He has played JV plenty for a rookie and makes guys accountable(Ross is bad so no minutes. JV improves= more minutes.) so they have to earn minutes. IMO that`s the way it should be.

    That said...Quincy Acy is his BFF.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

  29. Like Rapstor4Life liked this post
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •