View Poll Results: Who will not return next season?

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  • Landry Fields

    6 21.43%
  • Terrence Ross

    7 25.00%
  • DeMar DeRozan

    15 53.57%
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Thread: SGs: Who will not return next season?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I think all three will return next season. If BC is able to trade Bargnani and somehow lands a solid PF in the offseason and still the team falls in a rut during the regular season, we might see one of these three go mid-season. I'd say Demar would probably be it.

    I've seen a couple of Raptors games wherein the feed is from the opposing team, and broadcasters always point out the threat of Demar and Gay playing together. The stats may not show it, but watching Gay and Demar play together clearly shows the Raptors having 2 major offensive threats on the floor at the same time. I think the issue is that both are not exceptional jump shooters, so when one drives and kicks out, the other has no option but to shoot rather than drive, same reason why Lowry has taken so many threes this year.

    Id prefer to start Fields over Demar and let Demar do the scoring on the 2nd unit. Of course that wont be possible due to egos, so most likely we'd see Demar go.
    That is interesting.

    But then Ross becomes redundant.
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  2. #82
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's
    You should probably change your Avatar...... the Dumbest thing you ever said was Fields is better than Demar starting with Gay. Are you serious???? Honestly, how so? Where's the evidence of this? Fields has played limited minutes because he can't shoot, misses layups and NOBODY even tries to guard him.

    ALSO

    When did Rudy become this great passer??
    Why do you think fields will even be useful? Are you that impressed by his play to declare him a starter?

    Fields is a scrub - to be bluntly honest. He's not a starter. You and Matt52 can hope for the best all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he sucked last year and he sucks this year. He's damaged goods and he's overpaid. We need to get rid of him and keep Demar (If possible).

    PLUS - When it comes to the ball movement..... Who is to blame for that?? Doesn't Lowry and Casey have more to blame? "Here Rudy, Here Demar ....now go get us a basket" THATS what i see every game. Jose got others involved (see ED and AMIR) and i know he would've built good chemistry with JV as well. Please take off your homer glasses for a second here......DD is fine, he'll be better.

    I would honestly get rid of Lowry and Gay (an overpaid less efficient version of Demar).

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is interesting.

    But then Ross becomes redundant.
    Hhhmm, that is true.

    Unless Ross plays the 3.

  4. #84
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    An unhealthy Fields already posts similar shooting percentages from similar distances as DD but he also moves off the ball, plays defense, and rebounds. I disagree with OK defense but even that is a step up from DeMar.
    Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.

    As far the starting SG goes, I'd rather see Ross be the one.
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  5. #85

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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's
    Maybe we should expect the coach to create an offence where his players move without the ball rather than expect the players to do so themselves. Fields comes from Harvard and evidently plays the game in a much smarter fashion than anyone else on this team and is the only one who moves without the ball. This team needs a better coach whose offence is predicated on ball movement. On that note bring in Brian Shaw. To answer the post, I don't see any reason why all three aren't here next year. Gay is probably not the answer long-term (although I would love to be surprised) and this team's success will hinge on the development of Valanciunas et al.

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  7. #86
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.

    As far the starting SG goes, I'd rather see Ross be the one.
    I agree, but it doesn't need to be done from a player at the same position. I'd like to see DeRozan traded for a more offensively proven starting PF, to provide a more consistent low-post threat that is capable of drawing double-teams. This would also give the Raps another option for running their game, which could help improve overall team ball movement. With an upgraded starting PF and an improved Valanciunas (in addition to Gay & Lowry), there should be no shortage of offense.

    Also, with one less player in the lineup that needs the ball in his hands, it should give Lowry more opportunity to use his dribble (ie: his natural game). He's turning into a good playmaker, but it's often come at the expense of his own offense, since he's so focused on getting other players involved and deferring to Gay & DeRozan.

    That lineup needs a guy who can play off the ball and knock down open 3pt shots that come about as a result of ball movement - Fields could provide that. Plus, Fields would be a huge defensive upgrade over DeRozan.

    Ross is better suited for 6th man sparkplug at this point. The starting lineup doesn't need his offense and he's still making too many rookie mistakes to be relied upon as a starter. I think it would be good for his long-term confidence to develop in the 2nd unit, where there's much less pressure on him.

  8. #87
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Funny how in 3 years in the NBA he has been the starting SG on a playoff team twice. Take off the homer shades.

    Do you think DeMar and Gay have actually clicked? The Raptors record says no, OffRtg and DefRtg also give a big fat no.
    I hate to do this to you.....BUT you have some DUFF Beer Homer glasses on if you seriously think Landry Fields is a starter. I like fields....BUT he's a scrub plain and simple. He's not worth his pay cheque (EVERYONE knows this Matt!) Is this what you've come to? Is Landry Fields now the answer?

    Have you even watched him play in the playoffs??? Check his stats in the playoffs that you speak of...

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/landry...eer_stats.html

    Let's here the excuses.....

    YOU wanted the inefficient Rudy Gay (you even managed to convince some of us that it was the right thing to do). Did you see what it did to our "flexibility"?? If i'm not mistaken you also liked the Lowry trade (giving up our 1st rounder)......Look what this did for us.....We're a freaking lottery team dude! I'm an optimistic person at heart.....BUT this is the least optimistic i've ever been about this team.

    Fields is a scrub right now. He was never that good to begin with! Please be honest......no more kool aid! Next your going to say that Andrea Bargnani is going to bounce back and give us a good year next year. LOL

    This is what i know.... DD >>>>>>>LF. Without telling us who would come back in a trade......how the fcuk does LF starting at SG improve our team??? Are we really HOPING again?? Do we not remember what happens when hope gets in the way of reality?

  9. #88

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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Hhhmm, that is true.

    Unless Ross plays the 3.
    This idea of Ross playing the three is crazy, the guy weighs something like 185 on a good day and doesn't have the body to put on weight.

  10. #89
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.
    I don't agree that you have to replace scoring with scoring (just look at swapping Gay for Prince in Memphis). Especially when you talk about a scorer who doesn't create a lot of space for others. For instance, I think a line-up with Channing Frye (right corner man) and someone like Anderson (left corner man - as mainly spot up shooter and defender) spreading the floor, lots of PnR with Valanciunas/Lowry, combined with post-ups (Gay and Valanciunas) and Lowry driving and dishing would be a worse offensive team.

  11. #90
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.

    As far the starting SG goes, I'd rather see Ross be the one.
    I disagree that DeRozan's offence would need to be replaced in any trade involving him, whether it be from a return of another SG or a PF as CalgaryRapsFan suggested. If he was moved, I would argue his offence production could be displaced (?) to other members of the team. Assuming the team next year has better offensive flow and ball movement, Fields would easily pick up 8-10ppg being a starter. JV will also be producing more next year, that's a given barring injury. Furthermore, if Lowry was being utilized appropriately, he would score more and help pick up the missing offensive production left by Demar's departure. The team would have to play much different than it does now, and that's a good thing either way, but I'm sure the 17ppg can be made up elsewhere on the roster.

  12. #91
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I disagree that DeRozan's offence would need to be replaced in any trade involving him, whether it be from a return of another SG or a PF as CalgaryRapsFan suggested. If he was moved, I would argue his offence production could be displaced (?) to other members of the team. Assuming the team next year has better offensive flow and ball movement, Fields would easily pick up 8-10ppg being a starter. JV will also be producing more next year, that's a given barring injury. Furthermore, if Lowry was being utilized appropriately, he would score more and help pick up the missing offensive production left by Demar's departure. The team would have to play much different than it does now, and that's a good thing either way, but I'm sure the 17ppg can be made up elsewhere on the roster.
    I agree, especially when you consider that on the season, DeRozan has averaged 15.0 shots to score those 17.6 PPG. He's shooting 43.5% overall and just 23.6% from 3pt. Heck, if you just gave his 15 shots to Valanciunas down low, I'd be willing to bet he'd score at least those 18 points! It's all about efficiency... one volume scorer is manageable, but an offense built around 2 volume scorers is a joke.

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  14. #92
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I hate to do this to you.....BUT you have some DUFF Beer Homer glasses on if you seriously think Landry Fields is a starter. I like fields....BUT he's a scrub plain and simple. He's not worth his pay cheque (EVERYONE knows this Matt!) Is this what you've come to? Is Landry Fields now the answer?

    Have you even watched him play in the playoffs??? Check his stats in the playoffs that you speak of...

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/landry...eer_stats.html

    Let's here the excuses.....

    YOU wanted the inefficient Rudy Gay (you even managed to convince some of us that it was the right thing to do). Did you see what it did to our "flexibility"?? If i'm not mistaken you also liked the Lowry trade (giving up our 1st rounder)......Look what this did for us.....We're a freaking lottery team dude! I'm an optimistic person at heart.....BUT this is the least optimistic i've ever been about this team.

    Fields is a scrub right now. He was never that good to begin with! Please be honest......no more kool aid! Next your going to say that Andrea Bargnani is going to bounce back and give us a good year next year. LOL

    This is what i know.... DD >>>>>>>LF. Without telling us who would come back in a trade......how the fcuk does LF starting at SG improve our team??? Are we really HOPING again?? Do we not remember what happens when hope gets in the way of reality?
    You hate to do what? Look short sighted? Mission accomplished.

    Fields has been a starter and when healthy is likely to be a starter again. Is he a star? Hell no. But he is capable of doing a lot of things DeMar does not.

    I did want Gay. Still want Gay. Don't want an offense surrounded by Gay running ISOs. More post ups, more ball movement creating driving lanes.

    Did you look at the Raptors "flexibility" prior to Gay trade? It was shot out of the water with the DeRozan extension. Gay did not hinder Raptors flexibility, it was already gone.

    Yes, I did like the Lowry trade. I'd also like to see Lowry play healthy and with a coach not trying to clone him in to Jose. The Lowry Toronto traded for is not the Lowry Toronto has asked to suit up.

    You and I both share disappointment and lack of optimism with the team - common ground.

    I think you should read through the thread. Fields is a scrub right now but he is showing improvements after a degenerative injury that had been ongoing for the better part of 2 years. To say he was never good to begin with is foolish, in my opinion. With a healthy elbow shooting 50%fg, 40%3pt, 75%ft, 6.4 rebounds per game... that is not scrub. That is efficient dirty work.

    Bargnani bounce back? Please. #tradeBargnani

    This is what I know..... Rudy Gay is better than DeMar and they have similar offensive games - except Gay is a much better rebounder and defender. How does LF starting at SG improve the team? Because there is only one ball on the court. You need guys who don't need the ball to be effective... that is not DeMar and it is very much LF. You need complimentary pieces - DeMar is not. "Your turn, my turn" basketball is doing what for Toronto exactly?

    Without telling you exactly what comes back DeMar is the best trade chip Toronto has. This team has been going nowhere for 5 years and that is likely to continue at the current pace.

    Opinions can change as circumstances change. I'm not hyping hope, I've got likttle. What I asked was who do you think is not to return from 3 wings. You don't like my opinion? Cool. There is an ignore feature you should look in to.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Apr 8th, 2013 at 01:57 PM.
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  16. #93
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree, especially when you consider that on the season, DeRozan has averaged 15.0 shots to score those 17.6 PPG. He's shooting 43.5% overall and just 23.6% from 3pt. Heck, if you just gave his 15 shots to Valanciunas down low, I'd be willing to bet he'd score at least those 18 points! It's all about efficiency... one volume scorer is manageable, but an offense built around 2 volume scorers is a joke.
    And that is the heart of the matter.

    This is not about who is a better "player". It is about who do you want to work with moving foward - Rudy or DeMar? I'd go Rudy. With that settled, who fits better around Rudy - Ross, Fields, or DeRozan? Of the 3, DeRozan is the worst. How does the team get better - trade is only realistic option - who is best trade chip? DeRozan.
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  18. #94
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I don't agree that you have to replace scoring with scoring (just look at swapping Gay for Prince in Memphis). Especially when you talk about a scorer who doesn't create a lot of space for others. For instance, I think a line-up with Channing Frye (right corner man) and someone like Anderson (left corner man - as mainly spot up shooter and defender) spreading the floor, lots of PnR with Valanciunas/Lowry, combined with post-ups (Gay and Valanciunas) and Lowry driving and dishing would be a worse offensive team.
    To make my point clear, it's safe to say that Gay, JV and Lowry/somebody else equally good are going to be starters next year. This leaves the team with two spots. One of the two must be the second scoring option along with Gay. The only way the team can get such a guy is if they give up something of value. Demar.
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  19. #95
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    To make my point clear, it's safe to say that Gay, JV and Lowry/somebody else equally good are going to be starters next year. This leaves the team with two spots. One of the two must be the second scoring option along with Gay. The only way the team can get such a guy is if they give up something of value. Demar.
    Why? Lowry can score, Valanciunas can score. I don't agree that you have to think in terms of second or third scorers. You need a team of players that complement each other well and if you have a team with Lowry, Gay and Valanciunas and you add two players with range you should be able to get enough good shots.

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  21. #96
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    An unhealthy Fields already posts similar shooting percentages from similar distances as DD but he also moves off the ball, plays defense, and rebounds. I disagree with OK defense but even that is a step up from DeMar.

    Your second paragraph make it sound like DeMar is a spot up scoring threat. When has he ever spot up for a jumper? He works off screens, ISOs for pull up jump shots, or in the post. He does not create space for his teammates.

    Fields misses layups and has hit little to no jumpers all season... the only time he does score is on cuts and dunks because there are better offensive players out there taking attention away from him how many times has he been wide open to miss whatever he attempts unless he is already in motion? Countless. Im sorry I just dont see what everyone else sees in Fields beside the little things he does thats why he is a bench player.. His injury as well is a big lingering one it doesnt go away hes going to be having it looked at every so often..

    At the end of the day its about making the team better, Id rather DeMar moved for something good and Ross start in his place and have Fields remain off the bench until his contract is up and he just leaves T.dot or stays for a new cheaper deal.
    Last edited by Rapstor4Life; Mon Apr 8th, 2013 at 02:31 PM.

  22. #97
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Why? Lowry can score, Valanciunas can score. I don't agree that you have to think in terms of second or third scorers. You need a team of players that complement each other well and if you have a team with Lowry, Gay and Valanciunas and you add two players with range you should be able to get enough good shots.
    JV particularly has shown signs of being an effective scorer. IMO though Raps. will be sensible in waiting for a little while before making him a definite 1st or 2nd scoring option.

    Regarding my original post, I just wanted to mention that I'm not against acquiring the 2nd option by giving up a combination of other players. It's difficult, that's all
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    I know Matt52 doesn't need my support but he can have it anyway. Landry Fields will start next season AND he will change the way basketball is played in this town. Now there's two of us.

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  25. #99
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Fields misses layups and has hit little to no jumpers all season... the only time he does score is on cuts and dunks because there are better offensive players out there taking attention away from him how many times has he been wide open to miss whatever he attempts unless he is already in motion? Countless. Im sorry I just dont see what everyone else sees in Fields beside the little things he does thats why he is a bench player.. His injury as well is a big lingering one it doesnt go away hes going to be having it looked at every so often..

    At the end of the day its about making the team better, Id rather DeMar moved for something good and Ross start in his place and have Fields remain off the bench until his contract is up and he just leaves T.dot or stays for a new cheaper deal.
    There is a site called stats.nba.com you should look in to. They shoot the same percent from 8 feet and in.... even with a bum elbow.

    You know all those flailing no-calls Devlin goes on about? They are missed field goal attempts.

    The bold works too.
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I disagree that DeRozan's offence would need to be replaced in any trade involving him, whether it be from a return of another SG or a PF as CalgaryRapsFan suggested.
    Sorry my post suggested the above but I didn't mean that. I think his offence must be replaced but not necessarily in a trade involving him. It's just easier to acquire such a player by trading him. If a combination of other players can be sent to acquire such a player, why not.

    As far as other players being 2nd options is concerned, I see JV developing into that guy but I think Raps. should wait.
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