View Poll Results: Who will not return next season?

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28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Landry Fields

    6 21.43%
  • Terrence Ross

    7 25.00%
  • DeMar DeRozan

    15 53.57%
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Thread: SGs: Who will not return next season?

  1. #161
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Gerald Green is also a better finisher.....but that doesn't make him a better player either. I think we need to take a step back from all this talk about Ross being a starter or Fields being a starter NEXT YEAR. It just won't happen without MAJOR improvement.

    Truth is i like to give rookies a bit of slack....its tough being a rookie in the NBA. It's a grown man's game. Rookies don't get any respect from officials and veterans take advantage of their mistakes. That being said, I like Ross' game. He just needs to work on being consistent and aggressive. I think it would be foolish to throw him into the starter's role without seeing significant improvement next year.

    Fields?? Let's put it this way.....I would rather see Ross start over him. Actually, I was screaming for BC to offer *something* to O.J. Mayo. Mayo ended up with a 1 year 5.5 million dollar salary from Dallas. Fields does nothing great....what's his talent?? To me, he's a bench player for a playoff team...an over paid one (notice the constant theme for Bryan Collangelo??). Fields was smart to sign that offer....Hedo Turkglu was smart to sign that contract......Andrea was smart for signing his contract.....BC is the MORON.
    Being able to contribute without the ball.

    That is a talent in and of itself.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  3. #162
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    He can rain three's and he can finish. He's already a better defender too. But i doubt he'll ever get his chance with this team, BC will probably let him walk because of his love for DD and he'll end up torching us for the next decade just like all the other former raptor stars.
    Fields hasnt rained any 3s since middle of his rookie season.....

    I think you mean if we let DD go he will destroy us, Fields isnt destroying anyone I dont see what everyone sees in him hes so mediocre...

  4. #163
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Fields hasnt rained any 3s since middle of his rookie season.....

    I think you mean if we let DD go he will destroy us, Fields isnt destroying anyone I dont see what everyone sees in him hes so mediocre...
    He's not talking about Fields...

  5. #164
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Ross has the tools to be a starting 2 in this league. I do think he still has ways to go & he can start by adding strength & muscle to his frame. He's very athletic (hops, first step, acceleration & top speed) but right now, he settles the in between floaters (which isn't bad) because it must be difficult for a skinny kid to finish around/over full grown men. His shot is shaky but I imagine it improving because he has a good form and release. Defensively, he can improve his awareness but he has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guys. Increasing his strength will also help him in terms of man defense.

    I'm not ready to hand him the starting 2 spot but he does have the tools to be a very good player on both ends. He needs TLC from this organization so we can reap the benefits of his skill set.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

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  6. #165
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote torch19 wrote: View Post
    Ross has the tools to be a starting 2 in this league. I do think he still has ways to go & he can start by adding strength & muscle to his frame. He's very athletic (hops, first step, acceleration & top speed) but right now, he settles the in between floaters (which isn't bad) because it must be difficult for a skinny kid to finish around/over full grown men. His shot is shaky but I imagine it improving because he has a good form and release. Defensively, he can improve his awareness but he has the lateral quickness to stay in front of guys. Increasing his strength will also help him in terms of man defense.

    I'm not ready to hand him the starting 2 spot but he does have the tools to be a very good player on both ends. He needs TLC from this organization so we can reap the benefits of his skill set.
    I agree with all of the above. More consistent minutes next year will be key to his growth.

    Right now, his TLC from the organization is coming in the form of a chair on the bench.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  7. #166
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Fields hasnt rained any 3s since middle of his rookie season.....

    I think you mean if we let DD go he will destroy us, Fields isnt destroying anyone I dont see what everyone sees in him hes so mediocre...
    I was talking about Ross Einstein
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  8. #167
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I was talking about Ross Einstein
    thanks for the compliment

  9. #168
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I agree with your opinion of Ross. I know a lot of people think highly of the guy, but I seriously need to see a lot more out of him before I think he will even be a significant contributor off the bench. Luckily, this is just his first season so he has plenty of time to prove what he is capable of.
    That's why I haven't made any sort of judgement. Once he reaches his 3rd, 4th year, than I'll start to really talk about his potential going forward, and what his role is on this team. I did the same with Derozan, quite frankly, I'm happy. I was never originally happy about drafting Derozan.

    I definitely want Ross to be successful, hell, if he can be a much better player than Derozan, an all-star, than fuck, go ahead and do your thing and help the Raptors win games! My point is, I'm just not sold on Ross, and it looks like it's going to stay that way, with seeing more negative out of positive, and he seems to want to show it that way. Takes some possessions off, silly plays on both ends, not the best basketball IQ. He definitely has the potential, but I'm not ready to buy in because of it.

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    T Mac always looked like that. You can't say he wasn't trying because he actually was you don't put up 30 ppg from not trying. Ross netted 13 points in 18 mins... He's already a better finisher than Derozan
    T-Mac = Tracy McGrady was one of the purest scorers in the entire NBA before injury, look at guys like Melo (no defense, takes multiple possessions off). This isn't much of an argument. Some great scorers never actually tried at 100%, and they never did it 100% of the time, they were just so good.

    Bolded = If you mean dunking, sure. Finishing around the rim (contact layups, hooks, etc), I haven't seen enough of that from Ross to make any sort of judgement. I will admit, I am impressed with the fact that Ross tries to dunk every thing whenever he gets to the rim. Demar needs that mentality. Ross netted 13 points in 18 minutes, great. Derozan "netted" 20 points on 13 shots, got to the free throw line, and took advantage of his match-up. I'll say the shooting guards tonight were more than solid.

    If I may, what made you change your mind on Derozan so drastically? To a guy that has rarely done anything so special for the team this season? Basing lots of love only on potential and sample is not exactly a great reason too; see, Andrea Bargnani - 13 games.

    At this point in time - until proven otherwise - I'm content with Derozan, and I don't mind at ALL seeing Ross gone. If vice versa were to happen, I'd be extremely unhappy. Unless it's Fields that takes the starting spot, and that big man in return is Millsap or equal to.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Thu Apr 11th, 2013 at 02:59 AM.

  10. #169
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    That's why I haven't made any sort of judgement. Once he reaches his 3rd, 4th year, than I'll start to really talk about his potential going forward, and what his role is on this team. I did the same with Derozan, quite frankly, I'm happy. I was never originally happy about drafting Derozan.

    I definitely want Ross to be successful, hell, if he can be a much better player than Derozan, an all-star, than fuck, go ahead and do your thing and help the Raptors win games! My point is, I'm just not sold on Ross, and it looks like it's going to stay that way, with seeing more negative out of positive, and he seems to want to show it that way. Takes some possessions off, silly plays on both ends, not the best basketball IQ. He definitely has the potential, but I'm not ready to buy in because of it.


    T-Mac = Tracy McGrady was one of the purest scorers in the entire NBA before injury, look at guys like Melo (no defense, takes multiple possessions off). This isn't much of an argument. Some great scorers never actually tried at 100%, and they never did it 100% of the time, they were just so good.

    Bolded = If you mean dunking, sure. Finishing around the rim (contact layups, hooks, etc), I haven't seen enough of that from Ross to make any sort of judgement. I will admit, I am impressed with the fact that Ross tries to dunk every thing whenever he gets to the rim. Demar needs that mentality. Ross netted 13 points in 18 minutes, great. Derozan "netted" 20 points on 13 shots, got to the free throw line, and took advantage of his match-up. I'll say the shooting guards tonight were more than solid.

    If I may, what made you change your mind on Derozan so drastically? To a guy that has rarely done anything so special for the team this season? Basing lots of love only on potential and sample is not exactly a great reason too; see, Andrea Bargnani - 13 games.

    At this point in time - until proven otherwise - I'm content with Derozan, and I don't mind at ALL seeing Ross gone. If vice versa were to happen, I'd be extremely unhappy. Unless it's Fields that takes the starting spot, and that big man in return is Millsap or equal to.
    His Defense and ball handling. If his shot isn't falling he's completely useless, he doesn't even go to the rim that often anymore. I liked him a lot when he got drafted by the raptors, i thought he was going to be something special but he looks pretty mediocre to me now. I haven't seen that huge jump i wanted him to take so I have lost faith in him. He can't lead us anywhere but the lottery, he's a 3rd wheel getting paid 40 Mill...

    As for Ross, he's skinny but i've seen him finish multiple floaters and layups with contact. He has better balance and control of the ball than DeRozan. DeMar has great hang time but Ross arguably has better or equal hangtime. Ross has made some crazy shots in the lane against much bigger guys, he just never gets credit for it. I want DeRozan to be a slasher first, jump shooter later. But it seems as the years pass he continues to jack up long 2's instead of driving and finishing.

    I like Ross' potential, which is why i want him to get a larger role next season
    Last edited by NoPropsneeded; Thu Apr 11th, 2013 at 03:38 PM.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  11. #170
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Ross is in his rookie season nobody knows where or how to guard him yet. DeMar had some awesome dunks in his rookie season too and data on him says dont open any lanes for him or else he will make you pay, DeMar compensated with adding some range, he now takes his jumper with utmost confidence. I agree he does fall in love with his jumper but when its money go to it which more often than not it has been DeMar can add some fakes to his game his jumper will now be respected through the league it could help him out. I'll only be happy with a DeMar trade if Ross is put in the starting line up and fed to the fire immediately to grow as a player.

  12. #171
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    Personally, I don't want Ross starting. IF the Raps trade Demar I want him replaced by a more mature, playoff experienced SG. As much as I trust Fields, he's been injury prone and is far more comfortable as a 3 or small 4. Starting Fields at the 2 takes offense out of the starting lineup. I'm okay with the current starters. Demar and Val are probably the easiest to trade. But unless you are getting substantially better I would avoid trading either. The changes this team will make should be with whatever you can get for Bargs, purchased/traded draft picks and minimum contracts.

    We all know what this team needs-- a backup PG (or starting PG), a shooter, and a 4/5. Maybe Acy can relieve some of the needs as a backup big. If Ross continues down his current path maybe he becomes the shooter they need. That leaves a need at the 1. The real issue is that BC will be the person responsible for assessing who should be picked up from Europe, Asia, D League, undrafted NCAA kids, and NBA vets willing to take the minimum.

    During his tenure BC has consistently failed to bring in the appropriate talent through any of these channels minus Garbo, and AP.

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  14. #172
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    His Defense and ball handling. If his shot isn't falling he's completely useless, he doesn't even go to the rim that often anymore. I liked him a lot when he got drafted by the raptors, i thought he was going to be something special but he looks pretty mediocre to me now. I haven't seen that huge jump i wanted him to take so I have lost faith in him. He can't lead us anywhere but the lottery, he's a 3rd wheel getting paid 40 Mill...

    As for Ross, he's skinny but i've seen him finish multiple floaters and layups with contact. He has better balance and control of the ball than DeRozan. DeMar has great hang time but Ross arguably has better or equal hangtime. Ross has made some crazy shots in the lane against much bigger guys, he just never gets credit for it. I want DeRozan to be a slasher first, jump shooter later. But it seems as the years pass he continues to jack up long 2's instead of driving and finishing.

    I like Ross' potential, which is why i want him to get a larger role next season
    First Bold: Not too sure on stats, but free throw shooting has increased whether it be attempts and or percentages. Meaning he's doing something to get to the rim. I've been more impressed with the fact that he uses the post-up more often than not to be able to get closer to the rim. Due to his average ball-handling, the post up becomes effective for him.

    Second Bold: Fair Enough.

    Third Bold: The game has changed so much, that the "mid-ranged game" is now considered to be the "long-two's" game. The mid ranged was one of the best weapons in the NBA, and I'm personally glad to see it. Defenses force you to take those "long-two's" nowadays, but if you're able to hit these shots, it almost becomes flawed to guard a player that way.

    Overall, I do agree with the fact that Ross' athleticism is much better than Derozan's, and that Ross is actually a solid finisher, but I just don't see the ceiling everybody else does.
    I do believe Demar has much room to grow that, due to the fact his ball-handling, shooting, and strength all have it's ways to go, even without these things, he's an NBA starter, and probably an NBA starter on a number of teams.

  15. #173
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Ross is in his rookie season nobody knows where or how to guard him yet. DeMar had some awesome dunks in his rookie season too and data on him says dont open any lanes for him or else he will make you pay, DeMar compensated with adding some range, he now takes his jumper with utmost confidence. I agree he does fall in love with his jumper but when its money go to it which more often than not it has been DeMar can add some fakes to his game his jumper will now be respected through the league it could help him out. I'll only be happy with a DeMar trade if Ross is put in the starting line up and fed to the fire immediately to grow as a player.
    It's extremely hard to read your responses with any seriousness with your lack of punctuation. Just saying. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

  16. #174
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    valanciunas/okafor/gray
    johnson/landry/acy
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    derozan/ross/lucas
    lowry/maynor/telfair

  17. #175
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    First Bold: Not too sure on stats, but free throw shooting has increased whether it be attempts and or percentages. Meaning he's doing something to get to the rim. I've been more impressed with the fact that he uses the post-up more often than not to be able to get closer to the rim. Due to his average ball-handling, the post up becomes effective for him.

    Second Bold: Fair Enough.

    Third Bold: The game has changed so much, that the "mid-ranged game" is now considered to be the "long-two's" game. The mid ranged was one of the best weapons in the NBA, and I'm personally glad to see it. Defenses force you to take those "long-two's" nowadays, but if you're able to hit these shots, it almost becomes flawed to guard a player that way.

    Overall, I do agree with the fact that Ross' athleticism is much better than Derozan's, and that Ross is actually a solid finisher, but I just don't see the ceiling everybody else does.
    I do believe Demar has much room to grow that, due to the fact his ball-handling, shooting, and strength all have it's ways to go, even without these things, he's an NBA starter, and probably an NBA starter on a number of teams.
    I do admire his post up game though. He's getting better and better at it, but he's not the kind of guy to single handedly bring your team back in games. I wish he could develop that killer instinct to be able to do that. I haven't lost all faith in him, he can prove me wrong anytime he wants. He just needs to take more responsibility when we are losing to do everything within his power to wheel us to victory. Thats what i want to see from him
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  18. #176
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I do admire his post up game though. He's getting better and better at it, but he's not the kind of guy to single handedly bring your team back in games. I wish he could develop that killer instinct to be able to do that. I haven't lost all faith in him, he can prove me wrong anytime he wants. He just needs to take more responsibility when we are losing to do everything within his power to wheel us to victory. Thats what i want to see from him
    That's just it though, he has shown he can this season, but with what everyone seems to say about his poor shot creation, that all comes down to the plays being ran for him. Demanding the ball, asking for it every possession is in his power, but quite frankly, that player just isn't Demar. That responsibility is on Rudy.

    Bringing a team back into games single handedly is easier said that done obviously, and there aren't many players that can do so. Demar is not that guy. Rudy might not even be that guy.

  19. #177
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    If ross were put in derozans situations for 4 years I have no doubt that ross would be the much better player. He needs to be given his chance.

  20. #178
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    That's why I haven't made any sort of judgement. Once he reaches his 3rd, 4th year, than I'll start to really talk about his potential going forward, and what his role is on this team. I did the same with Derozan, quite frankly, I'm happy. I was never originally happy about drafting Derozan.

    I definitely want Ross to be successful, hell, if he can be a much better player than Derozan, an all-star, than fuck, go ahead and do your thing and help the Raptors win games! My point is, I'm just not sold on Ross, and it looks like it's going to stay that way, with seeing more negative out of positive, and he seems to want to show it that way. Takes some possessions off, silly plays on both ends, not the best basketball IQ. He definitely has the potential, but I'm not ready to buy in because of it.



    T-Mac = Tracy McGrady was one of the purest scorers in the entire NBA before injury, look at guys like Melo (no defense, takes multiple possessions off). This isn't much of an argument. Some great scorers never actually tried at 100%, and they never did it 100% of the time, they were just so good.

    Bolded = If you mean dunking, sure. Finishing around the rim (contact layups, hooks, etc), I haven't seen enough of that from Ross to make any sort of judgement. I will admit, I am impressed with the fact that Ross tries to dunk every thing whenever he gets to the rim. Demar needs that mentality. Ross netted 13 points in 18 minutes, great. Derozan "netted" 20 points on 13 shots, got to the free throw line, and took advantage of his match-up. I'll say the shooting guards tonight were more than solid.

    If I may, what made you change your mind on Derozan so drastically? To a guy that has rarely done anything so special for the team this season? Basing lots of love only on potential and sample is not exactly a great reason too; see, Andrea Bargnani - 13 games.

    At this point in time - until proven otherwise - I'm content with Derozan, and I don't mind at ALL seeing Ross gone. If vice versa were to happen, I'd be extremely unhappy. Unless it's Fields that takes the starting spot, and that big man in return is Millsap or equal to.

    Once a guy reaches year 3 or 4 your starting to ask whether he can maintain his performance for a career. You should no longer be talking about potential... you know what you have.

    Strangely enough I think Derozan is a great example of it. He's barely changed over the last 3 years.

  21. #179
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Once a guy reaches year 3 or 4 your starting to ask whether he can maintain his performance for a career. You should no longer be talking about potential... you know what you have.

    Strangely enough I think Derozan is a great example of it. He's barely changed over the last 3 years.
    I just don't agree with that, seeing guys like Luol Deng, and Joe Johnson have developed a little later into their careers. Whatever it us, until you reach "basketball old - +30 years" there's always room to grow. Especially with the holes that he has, if he is able to improve them (like he has this season i.e post game, ball-handle, strength) than I don't think it's impossible to see overall improvement.

    If I may, how has Demar barely changed over the last 3 years?

  22. #180
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I just don't agree with that, seeing guys like Luol Deng, and Joe Johnson have developed a little later into their careers. Whatever it us, until you reach "basketball old - +30 years" there's always room to grow. Especially with the holes that he has, if he is able to improve them (like he has this season i.e post game, ball-handle, strength) than I don't think it's impossible to see overall improvement.

    If I may, how has Demar barely changed over the last 3 years?
    Deng's best season was arguably his 3rd year, while Johnson's break out season was his 4th. The most significant change in Johnson was his usage went up when he was put in a 'batman' role in Atlanta. They are, to me anyways, more proof of what I was referring to.

    There are a few players that have significantly changed to the better over time in the NBA, but they are few and far between. Most change very little after there first 3 or 4 years. If anything its their role that changes.

    As for Demar - he's still an inefficient scorer with no range, no handles, barely any defense, that relies on athleticism. The numbers back that up with little difference in his raw per36 and advanced numbers.

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