View Poll Results: Who will not return next season?

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  • Landry Fields

    6 21.43%
  • Terrence Ross

    7 25.00%
  • DeMar DeRozan

    15 53.57%
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Thread: SGs: Who will not return next season?

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    I think I've posted about this somewhere else, but I think DeRozan is the least likely to go. Ross is not at all ready to step in at the starting SG position.

    This has nothing to do with how DeMar and Rudy clash etc. BC has shown faith in him with the new contract...if he trades him right after signing him to a huge deal, the backlash he'll receive will be enormous.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The Raptors have too many holes in their roster to think that Fields, Ross, and DeRozan will all be back next season.

    Who do you think will be gone next year?


    **BTW, no AA included because he is a free agent. Only guys under contract (i.e. guaranteed to return at this point) included**
    Landry really hasn't logged any minutes at the 2 all season he has played the 3 and 4 and I don't see that changing going forward. I thing the wing rotation will remain the same next season. PG and PF more important to address IMO

  3. #63
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Ok, first off, I didn't vote, because I'm not convinced BC will be able to pull off the kind of trade I'm ok with.

    On Demar for Millsap...I understand why people want to do it, but the bold is exactly why I don't. This team currently does not have enough talent to seriously consider itself a threat. Getting Millsap would probably create better roster balance, but on a team for which .500 ball would be a huge step forward, I'm not sure how important that is right now. I want to keep Demar, since he is very obviously the best trade chip the team has (partly because of expendability) until the team can use him not just to fill a hole, but upgrade talent.

    I bolded Minnesota because I also wouldn't do the deal people are talking about here. BUT, with Kevin Love having a tough season with some press that's hardly positive, it is a situation I'd keep an eye on for that legit talent upgrade the team still needs. For example, a deal that starts with Bargs + Demar + 1 or 2 1st rd picks for Love + Ridnour + filler. Very longshot, but Minny does need a SG very badly, and if Love wants to go, Bargnani is a cheap 2-year replacement. Throw a small market team a couple of barely protected 1st rounders and I think that deal gets done. Another situation I'd keep my eye on is Boston, where if KG retires and next season doesn't start so well, I'd want Demar available to shop for a guy like Rondo (or possibly another star PG if one becomes available).

    Basically, I don't see the need to trade a shooting guard because we have depth there and holes elsewhere. I only see a "need" to trade if it is to upgrade talent, in which case Demar seems like the logical first building block of any such deal.
    As you say the Minny idea could be a long shot. Love's value is at it's peak. The Boston idea is also slightly in Boston's favour but it may work if Amir or Lowry are sent along with Demar. Rondo has a little bit of an attitude but I'd love to see him a Raptor.

    You're right, losing Demar won't hurt very much 'cause it's only a matter of time before Ross becomes very productive. Gay and Ross can start while Fields and Anderson(unfairly unpopular) can ably back up. Also, let's not forget that Klieza is still a Raptor.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    As you say the Minny idea could be a long shot. Love's value is at it's peak. The Boston idea is also slightly in Boston's favour but it may work if Amir or Lowry are sent along with Demar. Rondo has a little bit of an attitude but I'd love to see him a Raptor.

    You're right, losing Demar won't hurt very much 'cause it's only a matter of time before Ross becomes very productive. Gay and Ross can start while Fields and Anderson(unfairly unpopular) can ably back up. Also, let's not forget that Klieza is still a Raptor.
    Sorry I included Anderson by mistake.
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  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    Landry really hasn't logged any minutes at the 2 all season he has played the 3 and 4 and I don't see that changing going forward. I thing the wing rotation will remain the same next season. PG and PF more important to address IMO
    He has played much more SG in his career than SF/PF.

    PG and PF are definitely weaknesses in the roster. With no draft pick, no cap space, and just the MLE/vet min to use, I'm not sure how the team is going to address those areas without a trade. I'm also not sure how anything of value comes back without giving something up.
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  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Redundancy means nothing if Gay and DeMar actually click together through better offensive sets and chemistry which has been seen in what little sample size they have played together so far.

    Fields is a good rotational player not a starter... Hes here by default if he was on a cheaper contract he would be traded in a heartbeat and roll on further with Gay, DeRozan and Ross....

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Redundancy means nothing if Gay and DeMar actually click together through better offensive sets and chemistry which has been seen in what little sample size they have played together so far.

    Fields is a good rotational player not a starter... Hes here by default if he was on a cheaper contract he would be traded in a heartbeat and roll on further with Gay, DeRozan and Ross....
    Funny how in 3 years in the NBA he has been the starting SG on a playoff team twice. Take off the homer shades.

    Do you think DeMar and Gay have actually clicked? The Raptors record says no, OffRtg and DefRtg also give a big fat no.
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  9. #68
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Fields' and DeRozan's contracts are at the start of something ridiculous, Ross' is too small to get anything of worth in return. You only trade your young prospect for another if it isn't working out, and it's too early to tell right now. Plus you need the other team to have given up on their guy too. You could package him with a larger contract but I can't imagine a Bargs+Ross or Kleiza+Ross yielding much of upgrade at any position.

    As for value, DeRozan is really the only guy to accomplish anything this season so he likely has the best trade value even if his contract is (oops.. I just puked in my mouth). That is, unless you think NBA teams care about dunk contests or what someone did as a rookie two years ago. So if forced to pick, it's probably DeRozan.

    I think this thread hinges on the fate of one Bryan Colangelo. If he's gone, DeRozan is likely gone too. Trading DeRozan now would be Colangelo admitting defeat of one really, really bad contract. Even Fields really. But if you bring in a new guy, he'd have no issue cutting both Fields and DeRozan loose. In fact he'd probably relish that fact that he's clearing out all the messes that Colangelo left behind.
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  10. #69
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    my favorite lineup is

    val
    amir
    fields
    ross
    lowry

    it doesn't happen very much, but when it does, man it's fun to watch. fields is CONSTANTLY cutting while amir and jv take turns screening and rolling to the basket. if ross gets the right coaching and fixes his jumper a bit to be a consistent 3 point shooter the sky is the limit. nevermind what that lineup can do defensively.

    when gay and/or demar are on the court the offense goes stagnant with iso's and quick shots. i really hope rudy comes back next season motivated and not such a dirty pile of laundry on the court.
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  12. #70
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He has played much more SG in his career than SF/PF.

    PG and PF are definitely weaknesses in the roster. With no draft pick, no cap space, and just the MLE/vet min to use, I'm not sure how the team is going to address those areas without a trade. I'm also not sure how anything of value comes back without giving something up.
    The MLE should take care of one of the needs without much problem. It's only the other need that they'd have to address via trade. It's going to be a challenge. Demar and Amir are the most valuable trade chips they have. Amir can't be considered much of a trade chip as he is a PF himself.

    It must be noted that we fans have written off Bargnani even though he has been a reasonably successful PF/C in the course of his career.
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  13. #71
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i really hope rudy comes back next season motivated and not such a dirty pile of laundry on the court.
    An observation I've made is that unlike Demar for example, Rudy depends more on talent than self motivation.
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  14. #72
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Fields' and DeRozan's contracts are at the start of something ridiculous, Ross' is too small to get anything of worth in return. You only trade your young prospect for another if it isn't working out, and it's too early to tell right now. Plus you need the other team to have given up on their guy too. You could package him with a larger contract but I can't imagine a Bargs+Ross or Kleiza+Ross yielding much of upgrade at any position.

    As for value, DeRozan is really the only guy to accomplish anything this season so he likely has the best trade value even if his contract is (oops.. I just puked in my mouth). That is, unless you think NBA teams care about dunk contests or what someone did as a rookie two years ago. So if forced to pick, it's probably DeRozan.

    I think this thread hinges on the fate of one Bryan Colangelo. If he's gone, DeRozan is likely gone too. Trading DeRozan now would be Colangelo admitting defeat of one really, really bad contract. Even Fields really. But if you bring in a new guy, he'd have no issue cutting both Fields and DeRozan loose. In fact he'd probably relish that fact that he's clearing out all the messes that Colangelo left behind.
    I don't think so. This is a really weak year for free agent wings. I think the contract is ridiculous but I believe he would have got in that ball park when looking at who is available.

    As for the defeat, it could be looked at as locking up an asset. A team like Minnesota, for example, is hardly a free agent hot spot and locking DD up for 4 seasons might appeal to them, again just an example. Denver did the same thing with Nene: signed to rich contract they wanted no part of and then shipped him out later.
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  15. #73
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Funny how in 3 years in the NBA he has been the starting SG on a playoff team twice. Take off the homer shades.

    Do you think DeMar and Gay have actually clicked? The Raptors record says no, OffRtg and DefRtg also give a big fat no.
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  16. #74
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Funny how in 3 years in the NBA he has been the starting SG on a playoff team twice. Take off the homer shades.

    Do you think DeMar and Gay have actually clicked? The Raptors record says no, OffRtg and DefRtg also give a big fat no.
    a playoff team beside allstar talent.... take off the delusional shades. Fields is good he isnt AMAZING as you think he is. Fields only played well one season and floundered this year and the year before, with the Raptors yes he brings some good things but lets be real here he is not our long term answer at starting SG the team will be dreadful. Btw Gay and DeRozan have been playing pretty good together... Them being relatively the same player isnt why the Raps have been losing games its the Raps being a joke whenever they sit that is the bench is useless providing no D or O to help the team. Fields also only started because of injuries as well so that isnt really a point...and was useless in all playoff appearances.

    ITs funny how people are hating on Gay nowa guy who quickly came here doesnt know the system and is just playing his game.... Raptors fans ladies and gentlemen...

  17. #75
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    a playoff team beside allstar talent.... take off the delusional shades. Fields is good he isnt AMAZING as you think he is. Fields only played well one season and floundered this year and the year before, with the Raptors yes he brings some good things but lets be real here he is not our long term answer at starting SG the team will be dreadful. Btw Gay and DeRozan have been playing pretty good together... Them being relatively the same player isnt why the Raps have been losing games its the Raps being a joke whenever they sit that is the bench is useless providing no D or O to help the team. Fields also only started because of injuries as well so that isnt really a point...and was useless in all playoff appearances.

    ITs funny how people are hating on Gay nowa guy who quickly came here doesnt know the system and is just playing his game.... Raptors fans ladies and gentlemen...
    Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's

  18. #76
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's
    Theres a big If there and if Fields doesnt get his shot back the Raps are fucked. People are not easy to please DeMar DeRozan is not whats wrong with the Toronto Raptors, Fields doesn't even play well against the opposing teams bench besides grab boards...and play ok Defense.

    Players know Fields cant shoot its only going to bring more attention to Gay and JV in the post having Fields beside Lowry, If his defender is playing him honest he cant do the cuts he does plying with DeRozan.Gay or both he cant take people off the dribble and defenders know he cant shoot is going to make defenders pack the paint even more...Its not a good thing.

  19. #77
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Theres a big If there and if Fields doesnt get his shot back the Raps are fucked. People are not easy to please DeMar DeRozan is not whats wrong with the Toronto Raptors, Fields doesn't even play well against the opposing teams bench besides grab boards...and play ok Defense.

    Players know Fields cant shoot its only going to bring more attention to Gay and JV in the post having Fields beside Lowry, If his defender is playing him honest he cant do the cuts he does plying with DeRozan.Gay or both he cant take people off the dribble and defenders know he cant shoot is going to make defenders pack the paint even more...Its not a good thing.
    I agree with this. We can't base our situation on potential any longer...we're already doing that with JV and Ross. If we really want to get rid of DeRozan, trade him for someone who brings the same tangibles as Fields + a jumper.
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  20. #78
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I voted DeRozan, as I've been pushing for him to be traded ever since the Gay trade. I just think he's the Raptors' best trade asset and would return the best player in trade (combination of age, talent, potential and salary).

    Ross
    - BC said he was "untouchable" at the trade deadline
    - team needs to keep some cheaper players, given that they're already nearly a tax team
    - rookie-scale salary will limit options of player(s) that could be received in trade
    - not enough of a sweetener for a combo deal with Bargnani (I think DeRozan > Bargnani + Ross)

    Fields
    - injury risk and bloated contract make him untradeable
    - worth more to the Raptors if he improves (glue guy similar to Anthony Parker, ideally) than he's worth right now as a trade asset


    I don't like a starting lineup that includes both Gay and DeRozan, since they're both high-volume, low-efficiency shooters. Combined, they take a huge number of shots to score their points. Neither is a great 3pt shooter, neither is a great defender or rebounder (Gay is much better than DeRozan at both) and neither consistently puts up significant assist numbers. Check out their shooting stats since the beginning of March: high-volume, low-efficiency shooting on display... not for the weak of heart!

    DATE (Opponent) / Gay / DeRozan / Combined
    April 6 (Bucks) / 1-10 / 6-14 / 7-24 (29.2%)
    April 5 (Wolves) / 12-23 / 12-23 / 24-46 (52.2%)
    April 3 (Wizards) / 2-8 / 11-21 / 13-29 (44.8%)
    April 1 (Pistons) / 13-18 / 7-17 / 20-35 (57.1%)
    March 31 (Wizards) / 4-10 / 6-18 / 10-28 (35.7%)
    March 29 (Pistons) / 7-14 / 10-20 / 17-34 (50.0%)
    March 27 (Hawks) / 6-14 / 5-14 / 11-28 (39.3%)
    March 23 (Knicks) / DNP / 7-15 / 7-15 (46.7%)
    March 22 (Knicks) / 2-7 / 7-14 / 9-21 (42.9%)
    March 20 (Bobcats) / 8-18 / 7-12 / 15-30 (50.0%)
    March 17 (Heat) / 11-20 / 5-17 / 16-37 (43.2%)
    March 15 (Bobcats) / 11-16 / 1-5 / 12-21 (57.1%)
    March 13 (Celtics) / 7-19 / 5-13 / 12-32 (37.5%)
    March 10 (Cavs) / DNP / 3-13 / 3-13 (23.1%)
    March 8 (Lakers) / 7-26 / 12-18 / 19-44 (43.2%)
    March 6 (Suns) / 2-7 / 7-13 / 9-20 (45.0%)
    March 4 (Warriors) / 10-22 / 6-13 / 16-35 (45.7%)
    March 2 (Bucks) / DNP / 6-21 / 6-21 (28.6%)
    March 1 (Pacers) / 7-16 / 2-10 / 9-26 (34.6%)
    19 GAMES TOTAL / 110-248 (44.4%) / 125-300 (41.7%) / 235-548 (42.9%)
    19 GAMES AVERAGE / - / - / 12.4-28.8 (43%) [with 3 DNP]


    I much prefer a more balanced starting lineup and I think Fields would be an ideal fit with Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas and an upgraded starting PF with a solid low-post offensive game to draw more double-teams (ie: Millsap). Fields provides the best perimeter defense and is the only wing player that can play well off the ball. His shot seems to be returning and if he can consistenly knock down open 3pt shots next season, I can seem him being an Anthony Parker style glue-guy for this Raptors team.

    A DeRozan for Millsap (S&T) deal would seem to be a great fit for both teams, but would be dependent on Millsap wanting to sign with Toronto - Toronto is an up-and-coming team with lots of young talent, which can offer him lots of money (starting at up to $11.975M if traded just for DeRozan) and a starting PF role, so who knows...

    I also think a much improved 2nd unit could be built around Johnson & Ross.

    Ideally Bargnani and the MLE can then be used to address the remaining holes on the roster - backup PG & 4th wing. I even wonder if Bargnani & 2nd round pick would be enough to land Ridnour & Williams from Minnesota?? A trade like that would fill both holes without spending the MLE.

    Bottom line is that DeRozan seems to be the obvious choice to me.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Apr 8th, 2013 at 12:31 PM.

  21. #79
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    I think all three will return next season. If BC is able to trade Bargnani and somehow lands a solid PF in the offseason and still the team falls in a rut during the regular season, we might see one of these three go mid-season. I'd say Demar would probably be it.

    I've seen a couple of Raptors games wherein the feed is from the opposing team, and broadcasters always point out the threat of Demar and Gay playing together. The stats may not show it, but watching Gay and Demar play together clearly shows the Raptors having 2 major offensive threats on the floor at the same time. I think the issue is that both are not exceptional jump shooters, so when one drives and kicks out, the other has no option but to shoot rather than drive, same reason why Lowry has taken so many threes this year.

    Id prefer to start Fields over Demar and let Demar do the scoring on the 2nd unit. Of course that wont be possible due to egos, so most likely we'd see Demar go.

  22. #80
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Theres a big If there and if Fields doesnt get his shot back the Raps are fucked. People are not easy to please DeMar DeRozan is not whats wrong with the Toronto Raptors, Fields doesn't even play well against the opposing teams bench besides grab boards...and play ok Defense.

    Players know Fields cant shoot its only going to bring more attention to Gay and JV in the post having Fields beside Lowry, If his defender is playing him honest he cant do the cuts he does plying with DeRozan.Gay or both he cant take people off the dribble and defenders know he cant shoot is going to make defenders pack the paint even more...Its not a good thing.
    An unhealthy Fields already posts similar shooting percentages from similar distances as DD but he also moves off the ball, plays defense, and rebounds. I disagree with OK defense but even that is a step up from DeMar.

    Your second paragraph make it sound like DeMar is a spot up scoring threat. When has he ever spot up for a jumper? He works off screens, ISOs for pull up jump shots, or in the post. He does not create space for his teammates.
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