Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Off season makeover: Good Bye DeRozan, GoodBye Andrea, GoodBye Casey, Good Bye Kleiza

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,983
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Off season makeover: Good Bye DeRozan, GoodBye Andrea, GoodBye Casey, Good Bye Kleiza

    **Assumption Toronto sends 2013 pick to OKC**

    Amnesty Kleiza. Why? More wiggle room with possible trades and sign and trades as it gets them $4.6M away from the $74M threshold (which is likely to rise as well as cap and luxury tax level).

    Fire Casey. Why? Serious regression on D. Brutal (is)O. Doesn't like young players.

    Trade 1:
    Derozan, 2014 2nd rd pick for Ridnour/Barea, Williiams, 1st rd pick (Smart or Burke).

    Trade 2:
    Bargnani for Boozer, 1st rd pick (Giannis Adetokunbo - Euro Stash)

    Mini-MLE. Dorrell Wright. Good 3pt shooter, rebounder, and defender.

    Veteran minimum. Re-sign Alan Anderson..... BUT only if Casey is not returning.



    Lineup:

    PG: Lowry, Ridnour/Barea, Burke/Smart
    SG: Fields, Ross, Anderson
    SF: Gay, Williams, Wright
    PF: Boozer, Acy
    C: JV, Johnson, Gray


    I like the balance in this roster:

    Positional - 3 pgs. 5 wings. 5 bigs. 1 tweener 3/4 in Williams.

    Experience/youth - Lowry/Barea can handle guard allowing Burke/Smart to adjust to NBA if needed. If Burke/Smart much better than expected, Lowry is a trade chip.... Or put Lowry as backup moving forward.

    Now/future - Balanced roster to compete now and in the future. Williams may put it together and become a full time PF when Boozer departs/traded or he might be a tweener off the bench allowing for matchup nightmares. Adetokunbo is under contract for 4 seasons in Spain with a cheap buyout to go to the NBA. Williams, Ross, JV, and Acy are young and only (hopefully) going to get better while able to contribute now. *Williams actually nearly 4 months younger than Ross*

    Clean slate past 2015: New additions of Barea, Williams, and Boozer all off the books for 2015. Only players on a contract beyond 2014-2015 would be Ross, JV, Acy, and Burke/Smart.


    This type of roster allows Raps to be competitive for 2 more seasons allowing current youth to transition to veterans on team in a competitive environment.


    If something like the above happened, I'd be extremely happy.... so it is not likely to happen!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. Like ceez liked this post
  3. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,831
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    **Assumption Toronto sends 2013 pick to OKC**

    Amnesty Kleiza. Why? More wiggle room with possible trades and sign and trades as it gets them $4.6M away from the $74M threshold (which is likely to rise as well as cap and luxury tax level).

    Fire Casey. Why? Serious regression on D. Brutal (is)O. Doesn't like young players.

    Trade 1:
    Derozan, 2014 2nd rd pick for Ridnour/Barea, Williiams, 1st rd pick (Smart or Burke).

    Trade 2:
    Bargnani for Boozer, 1st rd pick (Giannis Adetokunbo - Euro Stash)
    I like the idea of a trade with Minny, but I think we'd be lucky for a return of Williams and Brandon Roy, and no first round pick.

  4. #3
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    **Assumption Toronto sends 2013 pick to OKC**

    Amnesty Kleiza. Why? More wiggle room with possible trades and sign and trades as it gets them $4.6M away from the $74M threshold (which is likely to rise as well as cap and luxury tax level).

    Fire Casey. Why? Serious regression on D. Brutal (is)O. Doesn't like young players.

    Trade 1:
    Derozan, 2014 2nd rd pick for Ridnour/Barea, Williiams, 1st rd pick (Smart or Burke).

    Trade 2:
    Bargnani for Boozer, 1st rd pick (Giannis Adetokunbo - Euro Stash)

    Mini-MLE. Dorrell Wright. Good 3pt shooter, rebounder, and defender.

    Veteran minimum. Re-sign Alan Anderson..... BUT only if Casey is not returning.



    Lineup:

    PG: Lowry, Ridnour/Barea, Burke/Smart
    SG: Fields, Ross, Anderson
    SF: Gay, Williams, Wright
    PF: Boozer, Acy
    C: JV, Johnson, Gray


    I like the balance in this roster:

    Positional - 3 pgs. 5 wings. 5 bigs. 1 tweener 3/4 in Williams.

    Experience/youth - Lowry/Barea can handle guard allowing Burke/Smart to adjust to NBA if needed. If Burke/Smart much better than expected, Lowry is a trade chip.... Or put Lowry as backup moving forward.

    Now/future - Balanced roster to compete now and in the future. Williams may put it together and become a full time PF when Boozer departs/traded or he might be a tweener off the bench allowing for matchup nightmares. Adetokunbo is under contract for 4 seasons in Spain with a cheap buyout to go to the NBA. Williams, Ross, JV, and Acy are young and only (hopefully) going to get better while able to contribute now. *Williams actually nearly 4 months younger than Ross*

    Clean slate past 2015: New additions of Barea, Williams, and Boozer all off the books for 2015. Only players on a contract beyond 2014-2015 would be Ross, JV, Acy, and Burke/Smart.


    This type of roster allows Raps to be competitive for 2 more seasons allowing current youth to transition to veterans on team in a competitive environment.


    If something like the above happened, I'd be extremely happy.... so it is not likely to happen!
    It's not a bad plan. Still for my tastes (future geared), there's a lot riding on Williams (a bust so far, and even more so if you watched his lazy ass play a couple of nights ago), and a couple of draft picks. I know the team will have flexibility, but I'd still only feel good if one of the guys, most likely an incoming pick, showed obvious ability to become an all-star. Pretty risky moves (not from talent lost, just in terms of long-term gain).

    The way I see it, this team has one major priority for the next 2 years...Secure a legit, hopefully all-star piece, next to JV where they can both stick around for many years. I don't see Gay as that piece, even if he's pretty close. I say within the next 2 years so that they can still have the chance to evaluate any piece with Gay and JV, and whatever other pieces (Ross, Fields, Amir, etc.) are around.

    *I should probably add that part of my concern is I don't care much for capspace. I understand they could legitimately add the piece I want via free agency in 2015, but they're already slated to haev quite a bit of space....Regardless, after years and years, and paying attention to other teams too, free agency is mostly a crapshoot. A team almost always overpays for a player, and then just has to hope the player lives up to the contract. I always feel like there are far more bad contracts given out than good. Best hope is to secure a top-tier player through a draft or trade, I think. So yeah, it comes back to one(or both) of the incoming picks being a special player....so if that happened, I would be ok with the deal in hindsight, but still would presently have a hard time pulling the trigger.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 7th, 2013 at 10:14 AM.

  5. #4
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I hate the situation the team is in....they basically are stuck going into win-now mode, building a "better" team on the fly, but every move you make in that direction makes it more complicated to be sure they're on the right long-term path. What's worse is that for a team to go into winning mode and not sacrifice the future usually takes very good management, which the Raps have not had. I like that your plan tries to meet both criteria, but it does indeed feel unlikely...

  6. #5
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,983
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's not a bad plan. Still for my tastes (future geared), there's a lot riding on Williams (a bust so far, and even more so if you watched his lazy ass play a couple of nights ago), and a couple of draft picks. I know the team will have flexibility, but I'd still only feel good if one of the guys, most likely an incoming pick, showed obvious ability to become an all-star. Pretty risky moves (not from talent lost, just in terms of long-term gain).

    The way I see it, this team has one major priority for the next 2 years...Secure a legit, hopefully all-star piece, next to JV where they can both stick around for many years. I don't see Gay as that piece, even if he's pretty close. I say within the next 2 years so that they can still have the chance to evaluate any piece with Gay and JV, and whatever other pieces (Ross, Fields, Amir, etc.) are around.

    *I should probably add that part of my concern is I don't care much for capspace. I understand they could legitimately add the piece I want via free agency in 2015, but they're already slated to haev quite a bit of space....Regardless, after years and years, and paying attention to other teams too, free agency is mostly a crapshoot. A team almost always overpays for a player, and then just has to hope the player lives up to the contract. I always feel like there are far more bad contracts given out than good. Best hope is to secure a top-tier player through a draft or trade, I think. So yeah, it comes back to one(or both) of the incoming picks being a special player....so if that happened, I would be ok with the deal in hindsight, but still would presently have a hard time pulling the trigger.
    That is the risk with any rebuild or draft pick though.

    To secure that piece next to JV you need assets. I think the best way to acquire that player (given a straight up tank/rebuild does not appear to be an option right now) is to get young players with potential.

    I think Burke is going to be special. I'd love to get him. That is not based on the hype of late - always thought that.

    I think Adetokunbo could be special too. His late growth spurt, physical attributes, and skill set reminds me of a Paul George/Nic Batum/Kawhi Leonard hybrid.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #6
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is the risk with any rebuild or draft pick though.

    To secure that piece next to JV you need assets. I think the best way to acquire that player (given a straight up tank/rebuild does not appear to be an option right now) is to get young players with potential.

    I think Burke is going to be special. I'd love to get him. That is not based on the hype of late - always thought that.

    I think Adetokunbo could be special too. His late growth spurt, physical attributes, and skill set reminds me of a Paul George/Nic Batum/Kawhi Leonard hybrid.
    I just think for Demar especially, he could easily be a part to get an already established piece, but of course this is risky as well, mostly depending on one such player becoming available and TO being able to swing a deal. In the end, I believe there are two ways to acquire such talent for most teams, and that is through drafts and trades. Both are risky. Free agency is a crapshoot where your best hope is finding a complimentary piece and hopefully not overpaying for them.

    I do think Burke looks really solid, at worst. I also think Adetokunbo looks really good from the few highlights I've seen, and would love to find a way to get him and stash him. This could be a seller's draft though, and I wouldn't mind just trying to target them in general and hopefully not have to give up Demar. Especially Adetokunbo. Way too intriguing not to consider, but definitely gettable since he's very likely not lottery-bound. The Bargnani part of your plan, I'm obviously totally ok with. The Demar part, less so. And I do think that they don't have to be pulled off together at all.

  8. #7
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,554
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    **Assumption Toronto sends 2013 pick to OKC**

    Amnesty Kleiza. Why? More wiggle room with possible trades and sign and trades as it gets them $4.6M away from the $74M threshold (which is likely to rise as well as cap and luxury tax level).

    Fire Casey. Why? Serious regression on D. Brutal (is)O. Doesn't like young players.

    Trade 1:
    Derozan, 2014 2nd rd pick for Ridnour/Barea, Williiams, 1st rd pick (Smart or Burke).

    Trade 2:
    Bargnani for Boozer, 1st rd pick
    (Giannis Adetokunbo - Euro Stash)

    Mini-MLE. Dorrell Wright. Good 3pt shooter, rebounder, and defender.

    Veteran minimum. Re-sign Alan Anderson..... BUT only if Casey is not returning.



    Lineup:

    PG: Lowry, Ridnour/Barea, Burke/Smart
    SG: Fields, Ross, Anderson
    SF: Gay, Williams, Wright
    PF: Boozer, Acy
    C: JV, Johnson, Gray


    I like the balance in this roster:

    Positional - 3 pgs. 5 wings. 5 bigs. 1 tweener 3/4 in Williams.

    Experience/youth - Lowry/Barea can handle guard allowing Burke/Smart to adjust to NBA if needed. If Burke/Smart much better than expected, Lowry is a trade chip.... Or put Lowry as backup moving forward.

    Now/future - Balanced roster to compete now and in the future. Williams may put it together and become a full time PF when Boozer departs/traded or he might be a tweener off the bench allowing for matchup nightmares. Adetokunbo is under contract for 4 seasons in Spain with a cheap buyout to go to the NBA. Williams, Ross, JV, and Acy are young and only (hopefully) going to get better while able to contribute now. *Williams actually nearly 4 months younger than Ross*

    Clean slate past 2015: New additions of Barea, Williams, and Boozer all off the books for 2015. Only players on a contract beyond 2014-2015 would be Ross, JV, Acy, and Burke/Smart.


    This type of roster allows Raps to be competitive for 2 more seasons allowing current youth to transition to veterans on team in a competitive environment.


    If something like the above happened, I'd be extremely happy.... so it is not likely to happen!
    Woah woah woah. Unless this has money implications, there's no way Bulls are giving up that much for a deadbeat.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  9. #8
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,030
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I like the plan but I would revise one aspect of it.

    Instead of drafting a PG, who would be the third PG off the bench (with Lowry/Ridnour or Barea) I would draft either Shabazz or Oladipo to take over Fields starting spot. Oladipo brings more intangibles, defense, and spot up shooting, so I would prefer a line up like this:

    Lowry/Ridnour
    Oladipo/ Ross
    Rudy/ Wright
    Boozer/ Fields/ Acy
    JV/ Amir

    Wright, Oladipo, Ross, and Rudy are all really diverse in skill set and very athletic.
    Boozer and JV at the front court would be killer
    Lowry and Ridnour is a very solid PG rotation that compliments eachother!
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  10. #9
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,030
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Now if Bargnani for Boozer isnt possible, Bargnani for Hawes and a 2nd round would be my preference. Hawes is 24, 7'1'', rebounds, and hits at a much higher percentage than Bargs. Hawes - Amir - JV would be awesome.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  11. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Woah woah woah. Unless this has money implications, there's no way Bulls are giving up that much for a deadbeat.
    Any trade involving Chicago and Boozer is a money trade. This is a simple truth. They are not trying to unload Boozer to upgrade their roster, they are doing it to save money. This makes them a bit unpredictable....they're obviously not going to shake things up too much, but if they're desperate to get under the tax, I can see them potentially unloading a pick...They're a deep, talented playoff team with few holes and a clogged payroll. Adding a rookie could just mean adding guaranteed money to them, which they'd rather not do.

  12. #11
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Now if Bargnani for Boozer isnt possible, Bargnani for Hawes and a 2nd round would be my preference. Hawes is 24, 7'1'', rebounds, and hits at a much higher percentage than Bargs. Hawes - Amir - JV would be awesome.
    Hawes is probably even worse defensively than Bargs though (when Bargs tries that is). I'm not totally against Hawes because I'm ok with just about anything that rids us of Bargs and doesn't screw us too much, but it would still mean signing a decent PF or being comfortable giving primary backup duties to Acy, because Hawes at the 4 is a problem.

  13. #12
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,554
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Any trade involving Chicago and Boozer is a money trade. This is a simple truth. They are not trying to unload Boozer to upgrade their roster, they are doing it to save money. This makes them a bit unpredictable....they're obviously not going to shake things up too much, but if they're desperate to get under the tax, I can see them potentially unloading a pick...They're a deep, talented playoff team with few holes and a clogged payroll. Adding a rookie could just mean adding guaranteed money to them, which they'd rather not do.
    Oh right. Thanks for clarification.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  14. #13
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,983
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Woah woah woah. Unless this has money implications, there's no way Bulls are giving up that much for a deadbeat.
    It is all about the money implications.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #14
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,983
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I like the plan but I would revise one aspect of it.

    Instead of drafting a PG, who would be the third PG off the bench (with Lowry/Ridnour or Barea) I would draft either Shabazz or Oladipo to take over Fields starting spot. Oladipo brings more intangibles, defense, and spot up shooting, so I would prefer a line up like this:

    Lowry/Ridnour
    Oladipo/ Ross
    Rudy/ Wright
    Boozer/ Fields/ Acy
    JV/ Amir

    Wright, Oladipo, Ross, and Rudy are all really diverse in skill set and very athletic.
    Boozer and JV at the front court would be killer
    Lowry and Ridnour is a very solid PG rotation that compliments eachother!
    I don't see Fields as a backup PF.

    A wing rotation of Ross (22), Fields (24), Gay (26) can play together for a few years and all are diverse. Then throw in Adetokunbo in a few years (wet dream 1: Raps actually get his rights; wet dream 2: he actually becomes awesome).

    Lowry is an UFA after next season and Ridnour is already 32. I like the idea of getting a PG with the potential Burke or Smart has.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #15
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,030
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I don't see Fields as a backup PF.

    A wing rotation of Ross (22), Fields (24), Gay (26) can play together for a few years and all are diverse. Then throw in Adetokunbo in a few years (wet dream 1: Raps actually get his rights; wet dream 2: he actually becomes awesome).

    Lowry is an UFA after next season and Ridnour is already 32. I like the idea of getting a PG with the potential Burke or Smart has.
    I put fields there more for small ball purposes, a 4 man rotation of Boozer - JV - Amir - Acy with Fields playing a few minutes during small ball is still a balanced roster. And I simply cant trust the SG spot to Ross and Fields alone. I would prefer to draft an SG to strengthen that position.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  17. #16
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,983
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I put fields there more for small ball purposes, a 4 man rotation of Boozer - JV - Amir - Acy with Fields playing a few minutes during small ball is still a balanced roster. And I simply cant trust the SG spot to Ross and Fields alone. I would prefer to draft an SG to strengthen that position.
    If Casey was gone, I'd be happy with Anderson returning. He is useful, he just needs a leash.

    You could get some small ball going with Lowry and Ridnour/Barea playing the guard positions too.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #17
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If Casey was gone, I'd be happy with Anderson returning. He is useful, he just needs a leash.

    You could get some small ball going with Lowry and Ridnour/Barea playing the guard positions too.
    Agreed. Man, so much of Anderson staying has to do with me not trusting Casey to use him as he should. I believe the GM needs to take AA out of the equation. I don't have a problem with AA's skills, just how he gets used.

  19. #18
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,692
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I could definitely see the wolves trading for Demar. They're pretty thirsty for a starting SG.

    Also, Khan.
    @jerboat

  20. #19
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,554
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    T-Wolves still have Shved as well, I think they're hoping he can grow into something as well.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  21. #20
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,983
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    T-Wolves still have Shved as well, I think they're hoping he can grow into something as well.
    Likely a giant Barea? Wolves have a lot of PG's and combo guards but no real SG. Budinger is more of a SF in my opinion.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •