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ESPN: Early Ride on the Coaching Carousel

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  • #76
    ebrian wrote: View Post
    But let's be realistic.. at 26 Rudy Gay will not be paid less than he's currently making in his next contract. It will either be the same or more.
    Very interesting point. Much of the Raps future depends on this... I hope he can be extended for less than he's making now. I guess it all depends on the market when his contract is up and the economics/ownership willingness to spend around the league taking into account the new CBA - there are many factors... I really hope BC (or whoever is here after him) doesn't overpay (to the extend of Gay's current deal).

    As for the topic of this thread - I agree there are few elite coaches (Jackson, Sloan, Pop) and the everybody else with their minuses. If we can't have these few elite coaches, let DC do his thing, bringing few bright assistants

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    • #77
      Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
      I can say with zero hesitation that I never heard or read anything against Gay's acquisition due to his salary. That being said please don't take the word 'everybody' literally. It's just a word you use to suggest 'most people'.
      Actually, MANY of us HERE on RR had issues with the trade (before it even happened) BECAUSE of his salary. We knew that it would really put us in a financially tough place. Many viewed it as a last ditch effort for BC to save his job.

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      • #78
        special1 wrote: View Post
        Actually, MANY of us HERE on RR had issues with the trade (before it even happened) BECAUSE of his salary. We knew that it would really put us in a financially tough place. Many viewed it as a last ditch effort for BC to save his job.
        I saw it as both -- Colangelo making a splash to save his job, but also with a genuine thought that it could be a good move. And I agree that a lot was said about his contract; not sure where Eric gets the idea everyone thought it was fine. That wasn't my main concern, though, because I believed that if he played to potential and the team improved as a result, the salary was acceptable.

        Unfortunately, he hasn't played well, and hasn't looked like much of a team player while doing it. He (perhaps understandably; who knows what line he was sold by Colangelo) seems to think he was brought here to save the franchise, that the offense runs through him, and that effort on defense is just a suggestion.

        Toronto will not become a winner with that approach.
        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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        • #79
          jimmie wrote: View Post
          I saw it as both -- Colangelo making a splash to save his job, but also with a genuine thought that it could be a good move. And I agree that a lot was said about his contract; not sure where Eric gets the idea everyone thought it was fine. That wasn't my main concern, though, because I believed that if he played to potential and the team improved as a result, the salary was acceptable.

          Unfortunately, he hasn't played well, and hasn't looked like much of a team player while doing it. He (perhaps understandably; who knows what line he was sold by Colangelo) seems to think he was brought here to save the franchise, that the offense runs through him, and that effort on defense is just a suggestion.

          Toronto will not become a winner with that approach.
          You mean Gay is the new #tradeBargnani?

          The Raptors already had little flexibility as soon as the extension to DeRozan was given. I like the trade but think the talent the Raptors have can be better utilized.

          Also, what free agent was coming to Toronto? I say that seriously and not as a "oh boo hoo Toronto". Notable free agents want a chance to win and make money. Cap space is for more than free agents though as many know and, well, Toronto used space to get a player and talent they likely had no other chance of getting. For years we've been looking for a wing - well, here he is, warts and all.

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          • #80
            Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
            but he is a solid building block
            I have to disagree. If that was remotely true, the Griz would have kept him and traded either Z-Bo or Marc. They didn't.

            He is overpaid (not his fault), but just the way he carries himself, complaining to the refs, shooting long two, on again-off again defense--that is not building block material. Trade him AND Lowry AND Colangelo.

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            • #81
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              You mean Gay is the new #tradeBargnani?

              The Raptors already had little flexibility as soon as the extension to DeRozan was given. I like the trade but think the talent the Raptors have can be better utilized.

              Also, what free agent was coming to Toronto? I say that seriously and not as a "oh boo hoo Toronto". Notable free agents want a chance to win and make money. Cap space is for more than free agents though as many know and, well, Toronto used space to get a player and talent they likely had no other chance of getting. For years we've been looking for a wing - well, here he is, warts and all.
              Too many warts.
              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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              • #82
                unknown guest wrote: View Post
                I have to disagree. If that was remotely true, the Griz would have kept him and traded either Z-Bo or Marc. They didn't.

                He is overpaid (not his fault), but just the way he carries himself, complaining to the refs, shooting long two, on again-off again defense--that is not building block material. Trade him AND Lowry AND Colangelo.
                I like what Rudy brings, but his body language on the court scares me.
                Twitter - @thekid_it

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                • #83
                  I'm not ready to give up on Dwane Casey yet but I'm advocating for some sort of change with his staff -- bring in a lead assistant with NBA coaching experience. Casey needs a veteran voice to listen to because it's well obvious that he struggles with some coaching decisions on the fly.

                  But I can't disregard the fact that all throughout the season, this man has been asked to coach completely different teams, with different lead guards, different go to options, etc. It's not as if when one person goes down, you can slide the next option right away & the system carries on. There hasn't been a consistent line-up for Casey to work with the entire season.

                  That being said, he has a lot of work ahead of him, but I am willing to give him one one more year to see improvement. He gets his team to work hard, he has established a pretty good culture in the locker room & the dysfunction cannot necessarily be attributed from player - coaching relationship, but rather in coaching - management relationship.
                  “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

                  -- Charles Barkley

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                  • #84
                    1. Keep Casey

                    2. No more Rookie Head Coaches - Toronto has suffered through more than enough of that pain.

                    3. That list of suggested retreads shouldn't fill anyone with any more confidence than keeping the Head Coach the team has
                    The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.

                    Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report

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                    • #85
                      I think the two biggest concerns should be bringing back the defensive, hard-nosed style the team had last season, and actually finding plays to run in the half court. It seems like this season we've seen a completely different Casey; and if he's not going back to what we saw year one then I'd be all for letting him go.
                      Perhaps a bit more lineup consistancy in 2013-2014 could see Casey steer the ship like he used to. Either way, Raps should look for an assistant with a playbook.

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                      • #86
                        swingman wrote: View Post
                        I think the two biggest concerns should be bringing back the defensive, hard-nosed style the team had last season, and actually finding plays to run in the half court. It seems like this season we've seen a completely different Casey; and if he's not going back to what we saw year one then I'd be all for letting him go.
                        Perhaps a bit more lineup consistancy in 2013-2014 could see Casey steer the ship like he used to. Either way, Raps should look for an assistant with a playbook.
                        It's possible that the defensive regression has as much to do with the players as the coach. As has been mentioned elsewhere, there was more raw talent on this year's roster than on last year's. So how is it that they underperformed? Well, talent isn't all it takes. My opinion is that the "more talented" guys they've brought in to act as the catalyst for this team getting better seem to have a different mindset -- the positive view would call it "self confidence", "swagger", etc.; the negative view might say "selfishness" or "ego". Complaining to the refs on the regular, freelancing on D and O, etc.

                        Casey's defensive credentials can't really be questioned. What he did with that Dallas championship team, along with how Toronto played last year are enough proof for me that, given the right roster with the right mental makeup, he can develop a top-tier defensive squad. And the complaints about the offense are overwrought; if the defense was performing as it should, then the offense would follow. The strategy this team employs is (supposed to be) all about run-outs and easy hoops, but you can't play that game if you don't get stops and defensive rebounds.

                        I have a really hard time putting this season's failings on Casey. I firmly believe that his plan wasn't being executed on the floor. That's either on the players for lack of talent, or on the players for determining that their way is better than the coach's way. Either way, I'm never in favour of canning a good coach if its the players who don't fit.

                        If Gay and Lowry are the type of guys who just have a hard time co-existing with an authoritative coach -- which is increasingly possible, given their histories in the league -- then what coach could be brought in that would be able to get the most out of them?
                        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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                        • #87
                          special1 wrote: View Post
                          Actually, MANY of us HERE on RR had issues with the trade (before it even happened) BECAUSE of his salary. We knew that it would really put us in a financially tough place. Many viewed it as a last ditch effort for BC to save his job.
                          I personally did not come across any anti-Gay posts but just because I didn't come across them doesn't mean they weren't there. If I came across pro-Gay posts only, they were probably in the majority.

                          As far as his acquisition being BC's last ditch effort to save his job is concerned, that's a matter of opinion. IMO his acquisition is part of BC's effort to rebuild the team after Bosh's departure. Now if people think it's getting frustrating, I totally agree but that's what rebuilding is all about.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • #88
                            unknown guest wrote: View Post
                            I have to disagree. If that was remotely true, the Griz would have kept him and traded either Z-Bo or Marc. They didn't.

                            He is overpaid (not his fault), but just the way he carries himself, complaining to the refs, shooting long two, on again-off again defense--that is not building block material. Trade him AND Lowry AND Colangelo.
                            Just because the Grizzlies did not trade Zack or Marc, doesn't mean Gay is not a solid building block for Raptors. That's like saying that if the Heat trade Bosh because he is the least valuable TO THEM of the big 3, it means that Bosh can't be a solid building block on another team.

                            Regarding the way he carries himself, I don't find anything wrong but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't, It's a matter of opinion.
                            Attitude Is A Choice.

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                            • #89
                              Wow. The poll's gone the other way now...what the hell happened?
                              Twitter - @thekid_it

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                              • #90
                                isaacthompson wrote: View Post
                                Wow. The poll's gone the other way now...what the hell happened?
                                People came to their senses and realized Casey is a good coach.

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