View Poll Results: Should Dwane Casey be fired?

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    29 49.15%
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Thread: ESPN: Early Ride on the Coaching Carousel

  1. #61
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I actually don't believe that.. I posted this in another thread, and evidence shows that Brown plays a lot of rookies, and gives them heavy minutes. In Philly he gave a lot of minutes to AI and Stackhouse. In Detroit Prince played over 32 mpg. In Indiana, Dale Davis as a sophomore played the most minutes on the team.

    Charlotte was a different story, but they had guys like Morrison, Hollins, Brown and Dudley.
    Johnny Davis coached AI in his rookie season, John Lucas coached Stackhouse in his rookie season, and Rick Carlisle coached Tayshaun Prince in his rookie season.

    Also, Dale Davis was coached by Bob Hill in the sophomore season he led the Pacers in minutes that you just cited.

    So, actually, not a single thing in this post is true.

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  3. #62
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Sprechen wrote: View Post
    He should not be fired. To say most people want him gone is misleading. More people than not who have responded to this thread want him gone. I think his popularity is still pretty high. I'd rather see Kyle Lowry gone first.
    Throw Gay in there with Lowry and I'm with you.

    If Colangelo is gone, Casey should stay, and the new GM should attempt to bring in guys that fit the vision, versus trying to find a coach that can play nice with guys who don't (or can't) embrace the vision. If Toronto had Lebron, or anything remotely close, I would entertain the notion that a coach is needed who can build a system that suits such an elite player.

    Neither Gay nor Lowry are such an elite talent. The "system" should not be modified to minimize their flaws. If Casey's system is one that CAN win (and my opinion is that it is, given other teams' success with a strong defense + run-outs approach) then find players who fit, preferably by divesting yourself of those who don't.

    If this team moves forward believing that Rudy Gay can take them to the promised land, we're all in for another frustrating few years before another blow-up/rebuild, IMO, regardless of who's coaching.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  4. #63
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    Johnny Davis coached AI in his rookie season, John Lucas coached Stackhouse in his rookie season, and Rick Carlisle coached Tayshaun Prince in his rookie season.

    Also, Dale Davis was coached by Bob Hill in the sophomore season he led the Pacers in minutes that you just cited.

    So, actually, not a single thing in this post is true.

    I was looking at BBR, and when I saw years of experience as "1" I assumed rookie, not sophomore. Okay either way, he gives Sophomore a lot of playing time, and the team will most likely not have any rookies next year but 3 sophomores in Ross, JV and Acy. If there is talent he will play them.

  5. #64
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Honestly I'm sick and tired of this leniency bullshit. Being lenient to bargs, BC, triano, etc, where did that get us?

    Make the hard moves. Casey has proven time and again he doesnt have what it takes to be a playoff coach.

  6. #65
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    Butch Carter!

  7. #66
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Throw Gay in there with Lowry and I'm with you.
    For years Raptors brass and fans were desperately awaiting a quality SF. In fact there were all kinds of trade ideas to acquire Gay. When he finally arrived, it was like a dream come true and now you're talking about wanting him gone? I'm not saying that he is our franchise player but he is a solid building block. Yes his present contract over pays him a little but hopefully his extension won't.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  8. #67
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    For once, I didn't really read through the whole thread before giving my input, but I think one of the most important things is the Raptors need a coach who will trust the young players and instill confidence in them and help them develop. Some of the coaches people threw out are really good coaches, but have a notoriously tight leash for players, both on the court and off (Skiles, Brown, etc). That's not what the Raptors need.

    I will freely admit I have a bias here as someone who also follows the Suns (really, I followed whatever team Nash was on), but I really like what Alvin Gentry was able to do with Dragic and the legitimate ten-deep rotation he was able to maintain in Phoenix until this season. You could argue it was Nash who really helped his teammates blossom, but I think Gentry does a nice job with young players and with a lot of the Raptor's success riding on Valanciunas' development - and Ross to a lesser extent, that'll be really important moving forward.

    EDIT: Equally important though... I don't think the Raptors can hire just a head coach and be done with it. There are only a few amazing head coaches. Beyond that, every coach has flaws and any head coach the Raptors hire is going to have to be complemented with great assistants. If they can kind of hire a head coach and surround him with other former head coaches as assistants to balance out those flaws, that'd be ideal to me.
    Last edited by TRX; Wed Apr 10th, 2013 at 12:07 AM.

  9. #68
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    For years Raptors brass and fans were desperately awaiting a quality SF. In fact there were all kinds of trade ideas to acquire Gay. When he finally arrived, it was like a dream come true and now you're talking about wanting him gone? I'm not saying that he is our franchise player but he is a solid building block. Yes his present contract over pays him a little but hopefully his extension won't.
    Rudy Gay has been very frustrating so far. I like what he brings and at this point honestly he's been the best SF we've had in ages. But let's be realistic.. at 26 Rudy Gay will not be paid less than he's currently making in his next contract. It will either be the same or more.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  10. #69
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    I was reading the "Morning Coffee: April 10th Edition" *shout out to Sam Holako for doing this every day* and read an article from the toronto sun.


    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/04/09...ke-bulls-style

    Basically, I thought it was very interesting to read the comments made by Dwane Casey regarding the team he had during the middle of the year.

    “That’s something I thought the middle team we had (Calderon starting at point guard, Amir Johnson, Ed Davis holding down the paint) did a heck of a job at. Defensively our numbers were (improved) but again, you have to coach the team that you have.”

    Isn't this a shot at BC?? I always thought that he never gave his coaches the proper tools to succeed. He would leave a hole in the roster every year. Then he would make a trade to cover up that hole and open up another hole elsewhere. The guy has NO PLAN. If so, his plans always fail as we've missed the playoffs for 5 straight years (the longest in franchise history). Also, we've never been out of the first round with BC leading this team.

    I say we keep DC and give him a competent GM to work with. FIRE BC. We owe Dwane a chance to work with a GM that acquires players that fit this team and the culture moving forward.

    No matter who comes in to coach this team..... His hands will always be tied with the roster that BC provides.

  11. #70
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay has been very frustrating so far. I like what he brings and at this point honestly he's been the best SF we've had in ages. But let's be realistic.. at 26 Rudy Gay will not be paid less than he's currently making in his next contract. It will either be the same or more.
    Exactly. He's not going to get cheaper, and he's not going to markedly improve on his career numbers.

    He is most definitely not a franchise player. He may be the best Toronto has had in ages at the position -- but that is saying very little. He is a "solid building block", but he's unaffordable in that role, and worse, doesn't believe that's his role; he clearly sees himself as this team's franchise player and alpha dog. Worse still, I think Colangelo agrees.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  12. #71
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay has been very frustrating so far. I like what he brings and at this point honestly he's been the best SF we've had in ages. But let's be realistic.. at 26 Rudy Gay will not be paid less than he's currently making in his next contract. It will either be the same or more.
    About his high salary, everybody knew it and were still excited about his acquisition. It's possible he will be paid the same money again. That will mean that he'll be over paid again and I agree he'll be a little expensive. Unfortunately he is one of those border line stars. Performance wise though, I'm not disappointed at all. Yes he is having some struggles like any new player would have when he tries to gel with his new team, but time will take care of that.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  13. #72
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    About his high salary, everybody knew it and were still excited about his acquisition. It's possible he will be paid the same money again. That will mean that he'll be over paid again and I agree he'll be a little expensive. Unfortunately he is one of those border line stars. Performance wise though, I'm not disappointed at all. Yes he is having some struggles like any new player would have when he tries to gel with his new team, but time will take care of that.
    I can say with zero hesitation that is untrue.

  14. #73
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I can say with zero hesitation that is untrue.
    I can say with zero hesitation that I never heard or read anything against Gay's acquisition due to his salary. That being said please don't take the word 'everybody' literally. It's just a word you use to suggest 'most people'.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  15. #74
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I'm not disappointed with Gay but I do find his play frustrating. He's shooting at a really, really low percentage for a guy who's going to be taking a lot of shots. This situation is a bit reminiscent of post-Jordan days with the Bulls. They desperately needed a "go-to" guy and they got him in the form of Jalen Rose. But Rose was a horribly inefficient player, and was making too much.

    Gay's got to make better decisions -- perhaps having another teammate who can actually shoot might help so that he doesn't just hoist it up when he shouldn't (Jalen had Reggie Miller in Indiana). Aside from that I'm happy with his play and his role on the team. I can live with it so long as we improve in other areas.. at least you can't say now that we desperately need to upgrade SF. Gay is here and he's probably here for good. If he asks for more money, only Colangelo will be crazy enough to match.

    And besides, I think the only way for Toronto to own a player of his (stature?) is to give him a boatload of money. At this point I'd rather have Chris Bosh, but you play the hand you're dealt. I guess what I'm saying is I can live with overpaying Gay. Besides there's still a few other overpaid players that I think we can live without.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  16. #75
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I can say with zero hesitation that I never heard or read anything against Gay's acquisition due to his salary. That being said please don't take the word 'everybody' literally. It's just a word you use to suggest 'most people'.

    I just don't know what to say if you never heard or read anything that was against the Gay trade due to salary.....

  17. #76
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    But let's be realistic.. at 26 Rudy Gay will not be paid less than he's currently making in his next contract. It will either be the same or more.
    Very interesting point. Much of the Raps future depends on this... I hope he can be extended for less than he's making now. I guess it all depends on the market when his contract is up and the economics/ownership willingness to spend around the league taking into account the new CBA - there are many factors... I really hope BC (or whoever is here after him) doesn't overpay (to the extend of Gay's current deal).

    As for the topic of this thread - I agree there are few elite coaches (Jackson, Sloan, Pop) and the everybody else with their minuses. If we can't have these few elite coaches, let DC do his thing, bringing few bright assistants

  18. #77
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I can say with zero hesitation that I never heard or read anything against Gay's acquisition due to his salary. That being said please don't take the word 'everybody' literally. It's just a word you use to suggest 'most people'.
    Actually, MANY of us HERE on RR had issues with the trade (before it even happened) BECAUSE of his salary. We knew that it would really put us in a financially tough place. Many viewed it as a last ditch effort for BC to save his job.

  19. #78
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Actually, MANY of us HERE on RR had issues with the trade (before it even happened) BECAUSE of his salary. We knew that it would really put us in a financially tough place. Many viewed it as a last ditch effort for BC to save his job.
    I saw it as both -- Colangelo making a splash to save his job, but also with a genuine thought that it could be a good move. And I agree that a lot was said about his contract; not sure where Eric gets the idea everyone thought it was fine. That wasn't my main concern, though, because I believed that if he played to potential and the team improved as a result, the salary was acceptable.

    Unfortunately, he hasn't played well, and hasn't looked like much of a team player while doing it. He (perhaps understandably; who knows what line he was sold by Colangelo) seems to think he was brought here to save the franchise, that the offense runs through him, and that effort on defense is just a suggestion.

    Toronto will not become a winner with that approach.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  20. #79
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    I saw it as both -- Colangelo making a splash to save his job, but also with a genuine thought that it could be a good move. And I agree that a lot was said about his contract; not sure where Eric gets the idea everyone thought it was fine. That wasn't my main concern, though, because I believed that if he played to potential and the team improved as a result, the salary was acceptable.

    Unfortunately, he hasn't played well, and hasn't looked like much of a team player while doing it. He (perhaps understandably; who knows what line he was sold by Colangelo) seems to think he was brought here to save the franchise, that the offense runs through him, and that effort on defense is just a suggestion.

    Toronto will not become a winner with that approach.
    You mean Gay is the new #tradeBargnani?

    The Raptors already had little flexibility as soon as the extension to DeRozan was given. I like the trade but think the talent the Raptors have can be better utilized.

    Also, what free agent was coming to Toronto? I say that seriously and not as a "oh boo hoo Toronto". Notable free agents want a chance to win and make money. Cap space is for more than free agents though as many know and, well, Toronto used space to get a player and talent they likely had no other chance of getting. For years we've been looking for a wing - well, here he is, warts and all.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  21. #80
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    but he is a solid building block
    I have to disagree. If that was remotely true, the Griz would have kept him and traded either Z-Bo or Marc. They didn't.

    He is overpaid (not his fault), but just the way he carries himself, complaining to the refs, shooting long two, on again-off again defense--that is not building block material. Trade him AND Lowry AND Colangelo.

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