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Thread: Giannis Adetokunbo 6-9 Greek Freak

  1. #121
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    Quote Basilis wrote: View Post
    They ARE Greek. Yes, you laughed at the TRUTH. Meaning, YOUR credibility took a hit.
    I'd like for you to say in your opinion what is the most important deciding factor in determining a player's nationality. Is it where they're born, what their heritage is, what citizenship they hold, where they live, or what national team they play for?

  2. #122
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    You mean the thread where you said that Pappas was better than "any of those players" and the players listed were, amongst others, Rudy Gay and DeRozan?

    You mean the thread where you said comparing Ginobili to Pappas was an insult to Pappas?

    You mean the thread where you listed people like Kurt Rambis to prove that there were Greek impact players in the nba?

    Any trolling you receive is well deserved. Right now we're only replying because you make it fun.
    Kurt Rambis has both Greek blood and Greek citizenship. He played in Greece BEFORE anyone could play in the national league unless they had GREEK BLOOD.

  3. #123
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Basilis wrote: View Post
    But he does have the passport. It's just a formality. He has to wait for it come in the main, just like anyone else. If I go to get a passport, if you do, any of us, we might have to wait. Does not mean you or I don't have a passport, it's just not there yet.

    About Peja........please I am NOT trying to mislead on anything. He said in Greek radio just that, talking about what we are talking about. I was accused (falsely) of making this up and it wa said there is no source anywhere to confirm this.

    So I did a search and the thing I find is what I posted. Where Greece's biggest sports media tells how Peja indeed did just say that he considers himself Greek and not Serbian. Really, how can I be said to be misleading here?
    Please explain to me how I did anything wrong, or how I mislead in any way?
    He does not have his passport. Until it arrives in his hands and he can use it, the issue is not concluded. You can't go to an airport and say "don't worry, I have a passport, it's just not arrived yet"...No. If, for some reason, it was ID you need for something and you don't have it, you can't do the things you need it for. A formality is still a formalit. The process has to go through.

    On the misleading...It's misleading because you never provided a source for the original interview you are talking about. This can be misleading because people will expect you to support THAT statement.

    To take another example, that I'm half making up, but using because he is a very famous foreign player who got his American citizenship. I can say "Hakeem Olajuwon is American", and provide a link to an article, playerfile, whatever kind of legitimate basketball/news site could provide such evidence. It wouldn't be hard. But, if I said "Hakeem Olajuwon said on the radio he considers himself American", I should provide a link to that interview, or transcript of the interview. And it is not quite the same to instead provide an interview of Rudy Tomjonavich (who coached him professionally) or Lenny Wilkens (who coached him for Team USA) talking about Olajuwon's status and statements regarding them.

  4. #124
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    Quote Sig wrote: View Post
    That still doesn't make that person of that ethnicity. You are always what your parents are. You can't change something like that no matter where you've been living.
    So Jeremy Lin is Chinese, Taiwanese, or American then? Which is it? Perhaps you don't realize that nationality isn't a race?

    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Why so serious..?

    Saying the same thing in different ways over and over again is no way to back up any of your claims. The article refers to it as low level, and thats all we know of 2nd division Greek leagues.
    So your ignorance about the league is a justifiable reason for you to say I am full of it, simply because unlike you, I actually do know about the league?

    Right, that makes a lot of sense.............

    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    You have used quotations to mis quote every single member, probably multiple times. Go back through the forum, I was complaining about it for a long time.

    Anyways, if you are right that you translated that quote DIRECTLY, then I want to see the original quote and the original quote's source.
    I gave you the original quote and source. I think I will just put you on ignore, if I can find that option.

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I do understand....You don't watch NCAA basketball enough. And I'm not even the biggest NCAA fan, but there's a reason the top NBA prospects in the world, and most of the NBA prospects in general, come from the NCAA, as do many players in top level European leagues for that matter.

    He IS playign against a low level of competition. You just have to deal with that.
    Then so is every single NCAA player. You just have to deal with it.

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    And for what it's worth, I may have chosen my wording poorly, but to me citizenship is not complete until you have all the documents you could need for it. As such, if I am a foreign national, for example a 2nd generation Greek born in Canada, I am technically (as in legally) a citizen, but I would have no proof of citizenship until I file all the paperwork and get the appropriate identification. If you can't prove you're a citizen, you're effectively not, which is why passports exist.
    You do realize that most people do not have a passport, in whatever country you can think of?
    Last edited by Basilis; Sun Apr 14th, 2013 at 08:18 PM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Basilis wrote: View Post
    So Jeremy Lin is Chinese, Taiwanese, or American then? Which is it? Perhaps you don't realize that nationality isn't a race?



    So your ignorance about the league is a justifiable reason for you to say I am full of it, simply because unlike you, I actually do know about the league?

    Right, that makes a lot of sense.............



    I gave you the original quote and source. I think I will just put you on ignore, if I can find that option.



    Then so is every single NCAA player. You just have to deal with it.
    I also posted that I talked to a friend who is likely an even bigger Greek basketball fan than you. He also thinks the A2 is a bad basketball league full of mostly terrible players. He doesn't let his national pride cloud his judgment. Is his opinion worse than yours? And why's mine? Because I don't live in Greece*? What does that mean about your opinion of the NBA and NCAA, and other leagues in other countries?

    *And if so, wouldn't this be the very definition of prejudice, a thing you are accusing many people of being as you call them racists?
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 14th, 2013 at 08:21 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    I'd like for you to say in your opinion what is the most important deciding factor in determining a player's nationality. Is it where they're born, what their heritage is, what citizenship they hold, where they live, or what national team they play for?
    If they have Greek citizenship and they played in Greece and/or in the national team, then they are Greek. EVERY player I listed falls under that category.

    I am not saying for example that Calathes or Koufos is not American. They are. They are also Greek. One does not trump the other.

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    He does not have his passport. Until it arrives in his hands and he can use it, the issue is not concluded. You can't go to an airport and say "don't worry, I have a passport, it's just not arrived yet"...No. If, for some reason, it was ID you need for something and you don't have it, you can't do the things you need it for. A formality is still a formalit. The process has to go through.

    On the misleading...It's misleading because you never provided a source for the original interview you are talking about. This can be misleading because people will expect you to support THAT statement.

    To take another example, that I'm half making up, but using because he is a very famous foreign player who got his American citizenship. I can say "Hakeem Olajuwon is American", and provide a link to an article, playerfile, whatever kind of legitimate basketball/news site could provide such evidence. It wouldn't be hard. But, if I said "Hakeem Olajuwon said on the radio he considers himself American", I should provide a link to that interview, or transcript of the interview. And it is not quite the same to instead provide an interview of Rudy Tomjonavich (who coached him professionally) or Lenny Wilkens (who coached him for Team USA) talking about Olajuwon's status and statements regarding them.
    When he gets his passport, I will be sure to bump this thread. But I won't be as immature as others here, and say something like, "told ya so".

    So, I am being misleading according to you, for not having a link to something said from Greek radio, even though I totally backed up that it was true with an article that was talking about it........................OK... Wow, that's just absurd.
    Last edited by Basilis; Sun Apr 14th, 2013 at 08:39 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Basilis wrote: View Post
    If they have Greek citizenship and they played in Greece and/or in the national team, then they are Greek. EVERY player I listed falls under that category.

    I am not saying for example that Calathes or Koufos is not American. They are. They are also Greek. One does not trump the other.
    Actually I can accept most of that, though I would say that playing in Greece alone isn't enough to qualify, otherwise every athlete who ever plays in the US would be American. But citizenship and national team, I can agree with.
    I think that if you had come on here and said that you view Stojakovic as both Greek and Croatian, because he holds dual citizenship, most people would have respected that. But the tone that you took made it sound more like you were arguing that he was Greek and not Croatian, even if that's not the argument you were trying to present.

  8. #128
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I also posted that I talked to a friend who is likely an even bigger Greek basketball fan than you. He also thinks the A2 is a bad basketball league full of mostly terrible players. He doesn't let his national pride cloud his judgment. Is his opinion worse than yours? And why's mine? Because I don't live in Greece*? What does that mean about your opinion of the NBA and NCAA, and other leagues in other countries?

    *And if so, wouldn't this be the very definition of prejudice, a thing you are accusing many people of being as you call them racists?
    NCAA Division I is a bad level, and is mostly full of terrible players. What exactly is your point?

  9. #129
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    Quote Basilis wrote: View Post
    So, I am being misleading according to you for not having a link to something said from Greek radio........................OK. Wow, that's just absurd.
    You are being misleading when you don't have a source for something you quote. The information you present needs to align with the sources you provide. You have yet to provide the source for the interview with Peja. From that perspective, you have still just provided evidence that he is Greek, but not provided the source of information you originally presented.

    Again, I tried to point it out using Olajuwon for a different example. You didn't say "Peja is a Greek citizen", you said something like "he was quoted in an interview as saying he considers himself Greek". And then instead of providing a link to that interview or a transcript, or even a different interview with Peja, anything where he is in fact saying what you speak of directly, himself, firsthand to the writer or radio/tv interviewer, you provide an interview of a separate person who make a reference to how Peja considers his culture Greek. If this was a paper, and you were being graded for references, this one would be invalid and you would lose points.

    *And it is not crazy to expect to get a link to a radio interview. You can frequently find the interviews from the Toronto sports radio station after they take place. Or if it's a short interview on any website, it is not unusual to see a transcript, or limited pieces quoted in an internet story.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 14th, 2013 at 08:59 PM.

  10. #130
    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    -My daughter was born outside of canada, when i went to file for paperwork i said i wanted to apply for citizenship, they corrected me and said you're not applying for citizenship,she already has it what you want is a proof of citizenship. That's with her never stepping foot in canada.
    -Proof of citizenship gives you access to all the rights and privileges of a citizen like working and applying for a passport.
    -She still needed a valid canadian passport to get in the country, citizenship is not a traveling document, which is a why a PASSPORT is needed, its a travel document not a proof of citizenship.
    -Steve Nash was not born in Canada, played for the canadian team, and is considered the best CANADIAN bball player in the NBA history.
    -My parents are from country X, but i was born and raised in canada, i identify with both cultures because both those cultures contributed in the person i am today. And the same goes for my friends of arabic, haitian, greek, italian, etc decent. we always identified as Canadian/X

    So to sum it up.
    Citizenship =/= Passport.
    Place of birth =/= National identity.
    Dual citizenship is legal on paper and in peoples heart.
    Us arguing about who should be considered what, is not a factor in the final verdict no matter how we skew our views.

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  12. #131
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    Quote Basilis wrote: View Post
    NCAA Division I is a bad level, and is mostly full of terrible players. What exactly is your point?
    The better teams in NCAA Division I are at a very high level. The NCAA tournament has 64 teams. It is a very large basketball league. It has many good schools which produce excellent teams year after year. Occasionally the talent level on some of these teams borders on the NBA level, where one or several players could be starters in the NBA. Can you say the same for A2? If you do, I know you are not objective.

  13. #132
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Actually I can accept most of that, though I would say that playing in Greece alone isn't enough to qualify, otherwise every athlete who ever plays in the US would be American. But citizenship and national team, I can agree with.
    I think that if you had come on here and said that you view Stojakovic as both Greek and Croatian, because he holds dual citizenship, most people would have respected that. But the tone that you took made it sound more like you were arguing that he was Greek and not Croatian, even if that's not the argument you were trying to present.
    Where did I say playing in Greece made them Greek? I didn't say that. I said Greek citizenship AND playing in Greece. This is nothing like playing in NBA. There are no rules on nationality in NBA.

    In Greece they have strict rules on nationality. 6 of the 12 active players in any game have to be Greek. And you can't just make someone Greek, or "naturalize" them, like you can in FIBA. No, they have to be actually Greek citizens.

    The only way that happens is if they are born in Greece, live there, and go through all the processes to be a full citizen, or if they have Greek blood and are natural born citizens at birth, or if they are not born in Greece, but as KIDS lived in Greece and went through all the path to citizenship.

    And just so you understand this, take the issue of Kurt Rambis.....when he played in Greek League, NO ONE was allowed to play there unless they were a natural born Greek citizen. So, by any measure imaginable, Rambis is Greek.

    I also never claimed that Peja was not Serbian (should be Serbian, not Croatian). I never said any such thing. I only disputed those falsely saying that he isn't Greek. Of course he is Serbian. He's a Serbian-Greek.

    I am disputing the people that are saying he isn't Greek, which is almost every single person here. That's not true. And the people claiming he can't be Greek, because he's Serbian, are obviously being absolutely ridiculous.

    It's like saying that anyone that is Italian American, or Irish American, or whatever, is in no way in hell actually American at all. It's just freaking stupid and is complete nonsense.

    On the topic of what the individual themselves identify with, Peja always has been very clear that he's a Greek in his mind and opinion, and that is why he has lived in Greece since he was 16, married a Greek, his kids were born in Greece, etc.

    This is the point about Seikaly....he has always said he's a Greek in his mind and viewpoint, and nothing else. He lived in Greece even when he was playing in NBA. In fact, you want to know how freaking ridiculous some people are being here? I mean really know how absurd their comments here are?

    The NBA and the Miami Heat both officially recognized Rony Seikaly as a GREEK player. For YEARS, he was listed as a Greek player by them. The even used to call him "Greek Heat" as his nickname. Oh yeah, but in this forum it's being seen as lying, trolling, craziness, whatever, to say he was Greek.

    I mean, Seikaly was called Greek everywhere. EVERYWHERE in USA, he was known as a Greek player. So what in the hell are these people here even talking about?

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    You are being misleading when you don't have a source for something you quote. The information you present needs to align with the sources you provide. You have yet to provide the source for the interview with Peja. From that perspective, you have still just provided evidence that he is Greek, but not provided the source of information you originally presented.

    Again, I tried to point it out using Olajuwon for a different example. You didn't say "Peja is a Greek citizen", you said something like "he was quoted in an interview as saying he considers himself Greek". And then instead of providing a link to that interview or a transcript, or even a different interview with Peja, anything where he is in fact saying what you speak of directly, himself, firsthand to the writer or radio/tv interviewer, you provide an interview of a separate person who make a reference to how Peja considers his culture Greek. If this was a paper, and you were being graded for references, this one would be invalid and you would lose points.

    *And it is not crazy to expect to get a link to a radio interview. You can frequently find the interviews from the Toronto sports radio station after they take place. Or if it's a short interview on any website, it is not unusual to see a transcript, or limited pieces quoted in an internet story.
    OK, I'm not even bothering anymore with this discussion.

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The better teams in NCAA Division I are at a very high level. The NCAA tournament has 64 teams. It is a very large basketball league. It has many good schools which produce excellent teams year after year. Occasionally the talent level on some of these teams borders on the NBA level, where one or several players could be starters in the NBA. Can you say the same for A2? If you do, I know you are not objective.
    Well then, Greek A2 League is also at a very high level.
    Last edited by Basilis; Sun Apr 14th, 2013 at 09:13 PM.

  14. #133
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Let's just nuke Greece and get it over with.

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  16. #134
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    Yeah, I'm done too. I agree with you and give you a suggestion about how you can make your point better, and you respond with a very angry essay that has nothing to do with my post. Hope you have better luck on the next basketball forum you end up on.

  17. #135
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Wasn't he going to leave?

  18. #136
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    holy shit I come back to this forum after God knows how long and find some 12 year old throwing temper tantrums trying to prove who's Greek and who isn't? Time definitely well spent...

  19. #137
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Peja is actually Punjabi


  20. #138
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Let's just nuke Greece and get it over with.
    Why not just let them suffer the fruits of their economy?

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    Give us back our Lithuanian STAUSKAS!!!!!!1111!11!!!!111!!!

    I kid.

  22. #140
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Why not just let them suffer the fruits of their economy?
    Because we keep paying billions in "loans" which will never be paid back.

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