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Thread: Next years starting PF now a lock?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Default Next years starting PF now a lock?

    I was not always sold on Amir's ability to be a high quality starter in the NBA, but he has proven me wrong.

    Here are his number form this year as a starter. As of today he has started 37 games so we have a nice sample size.
    35 minutes per game, 54% from the field 79% free throw shooter, 9.5 rebounds per game with 1.8 assists, 1.1 steals and 1.8 blocks, he caps it all off scoring over 12 points per game.

    I think that putting Amir beside a improving Jonas will be a great starting unit, adding a solid versatile vet that can play with either one and the front court could be set. I know there is always talk about adding a guy like Milsap or Josh Smith, but I think with the amount of scoring we are going to get from the 2 and 3 spots, a PF that wants to put up bigger numbers may not be the best fit.

    I am happy with the projected starters for next year, I think an upgrade at back-up PG is needed and a quality 3rd big and the team will really be ready to make some noise, it may not be pretty, but I think we are close!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    I was not always sold on Amir's ability to be a high quality starter in the NBA, but he has proven me wrong.

    Here are his number form this year as a starter. As of today he has started 37 games so we have a nice sample size.
    35 minutes per game, 54% from the field 79% free throw shooter, 9.5 rebounds per game with 1.8 assists, 1.1 steals and 1.8 blocks, he caps it all off scoring over 12 points per game.

    I think that putting Amir beside a improving Jonas will be a great starting unit, adding a solid versatile vet that can play with either one and the front court could be set. I know there is always talk about adding a guy like Milsap or Josh Smith, but I think with the amount of scoring we are going to get from the 2 and 3 spots, a PF that wants to put up bigger numbers may not be the best fit.

    I am happy with the projected starters for next year, I think an upgrade at back-up PG is needed and a quality 3rd big and the team will really be ready to make some noise, it may not be pretty, but I think we are close!
    I still like him as first big off the bench for a number of reasons:

    1) energy - balls out all the time
    2) flexibility - can play PF or C
    3) team first mentality

    His stats off the bench are also impressive. These stats are not a true indication of his contribution off the bench because you had Bargnani and Davis taking minutes earlier in the season:

    43 games
    23.6 minutes
    8.3 points
    3.3-5.8 .576 fg%
    1.5-2.3 .673 FT%
    2.5/3.4/6.0 reb
    1.2 ast
    0.9 blk
    0.9 stl
    1.0 to

    I also don't think DeRozan and Gay is sustainable. Oh how I wish it could be true but right now I have too many memories of the Raptors ending seasons on high notes when the games no longer matter and the carry over never happens. If DD and Rudy can both shoot over 35% from 3 and the offense evolves in to more drive and kick, then I am on the DD/Gay bandwagon.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If DD and Rudy can both shoot over 35% from 3 and the offense evolves in to more drive and kick, then I am on the DD/Gay bandwagon.
    Absolutely. Hell, if DD/Gay can both shoot over 35% from 3, then this is (dare I say it?) a good team. Is that likely? I'm not sure. Even with Gay's struggles this year and the past couple years, he is at 34% for his career, and did have one season at almost 40%. It would be fantastic if his form of the past few weeks continues. As for Derozan, all we ever hear about him is how hard he works. Really hoping somebody directs him to the 3 point line for 1000 shots/day all summer long.

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    I see Bargnani as next season's starting PF. He's got potential.




    ....I'm not serious...

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Absolutely. Hell, if DD/Gay can both shoot over 35% from 3, then this is (dare I say it?) a good team. Is that likely? I'm not sure. Even with Gay's struggles this year and the past couple years, he is at 34% for his career, and did have one season at almost 40%. It would be fantastic if his form of the past few weeks continues. As for Derozan, all we ever hear about him is how hard he works. Really hoping somebody directs him to the 3 point line for 1000 shots/day all summer long.
    These are the types of comments that make me understand why fan expectations are way too high all the time. This idea simply doesn't make DeMar a better shooter. I've stated this before so I won't go into huge detail but I'll sum up with practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. He needs to improve quality of his shot, not the quantity. He could shoot a million 3s a day, it won't matter unless his technique improves first. Same goes for Gay and every other athlete. That being said, it takes time to improve quality. Expectations are often for a player to have significantly improved on one aspect of his game over the summer. That is only realistic if he's working on it properly and diligently and even still, might not happen for a while. Change takes time.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

    @clericalbeats

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
    He could shoot a million 3s a day, it won't matter unless his technique improves first.
    This would be a valid point if his technique was actually fundamentally broken (i.e. Fields post-injury). That's not the case. At this point, he needs to do the same thing he does inside the 3pt range, from behind the line.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I still like him as first big off the bench for a number of reasons:

    1) energy - balls out all the time
    2) flexibility - can play PF or C
    3) team first mentality


    His stats off the bench are also impressive. These stats are not a true indication of his contribution off the bench because you had Bargnani and Davis taking minutes earlier in the season:

    43 games
    23.6 minutes
    8.3 points
    3.3-5.8 .576 fg%
    1.5-2.3 .673 FT%
    2.5/3.4/6.0 reb
    1.2 ast
    0.9 blk
    0.9 stl
    1.0 to

    I also don't think DeRozan and Gay is sustainable. Oh how I wish it could be true but right now I have too many memories of the Raptors ending seasons on high notes when the games no longer matter and the carry over never happens. If DD and Rudy can both shoot over 35% from 3 and the offense evolves in to more drive and kick, then I am on the DD/Gay bandwagon.
    Why not keep his energy and versatility in the starting line-up? Lets look for a guy like Luis Scola, Carl Landry, Marreese Speights as a first big off the bench. Amir is a Horace Grant/Anotio Davis type guy, he has earned it.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Why not keep his energy and versatility in the starting line-up? Lets look for a guy like Luis Scola, Carl Landry, Marreese Speights as a first big off the bench. Amir is a Horace Grant/Anotio Davis type guy, he has earned it.
    Two of my top 3 options, along with Ersan Ilyasova.

    I wouldn't be upset if this team got a big name/salary guy, but I don't think it's necessary, especially if the cost is giving up other young assets like Ross or DD. I think it would be taking the wrong long-term strategy. That's why for those guys, my biggest preference is Gasol, as his commitment is the shortest.

    *I also think for Scola and Ilyasova especially, they can both start in different situations than Amir. So it would be more like JV always starts at C, and whoever makes the most sense on any given night at PF between Amir and whoever else. All guys have great team-first attitudes as well.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Apr 17th, 2013 at 09:44 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Two of my top 3 options, along with Ersan Ilyasova.

    I wouldn't be upset if this team got a big name/salary guy, but I don't think it's necessary, especially if the cost is giving up other young assets like Ross or DD. I think it would be taking the wrong long-term strategy. That's why for those guys, my biggest preference is Gasol, as his commitment is the shortest.

    *I also think for Scola and Ilyasova especially, they can both start in different situations than Amir. So it would be more like JV always starts at C, and whoever makes the most sense on any given night at PF between Amir and whoever else. All guys have great team-first attitudes as well.
    I think Scola would be a better fit. He has a good post-up game (but boozer's better) and is a wide body defender. He has a good mid-range jumper and is a good passer for a bigman. Specially with the Raps who has players who move well without the ball.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Two of my top 3 options, along with Ersan Ilyasova.

    I wouldn't be upset if this team got a big name/salary guy, but I don't think it's necessary, especially if the cost is giving up other young assets like Ross or DD. I think it would be taking the wrong long-term strategy. That's why for those guys, my biggest preference is Gasol, as his commitment is the shortest.

    *I also think for Scola and Ilyasova especially, they can both start in different situations than Amir. So it would be more like JV always starts at C, and whoever makes the most sense on any given night at PF between Amir and whoever else. All guys have great team-first attitudes as well.
    Would you be willing to do this trade - Scola and Beasley for DD?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Would you be willing to do this trade - Scola and Beasley for DD?
    No...I wouldn't trade a cancerous tumor for Beasley. Ok, obviously exaggerating, but yeah, Beasley is like the worst player in the world.

    Honestly, considering some simple facts:
    -PHX is very very bad. They are clearly tanking for next year. If they don't, they're stupid.
    -Scola does not want to play for a bad team, and didn't really have a choice because he was claimed off amnesty
    -Bargnani for Scola + filler (even Beasley) is a much more logical deal, IMO. It keeps PHX bad enough to tank, frees up some roster space and possibly cap space as well.

    Possible configuration, assuming they're trying to suck:
    Bargnani + Lucas (option picked up and traded) for Luis Scola + Channing Frye (or Beasley, hopefully Frye)
    -possibly send them a 2nd rd pick as well...no 1st rders in this trade of vets and scrubs.
    -I feel like they may want Lucas, with a young PG on their team in Marshall, and no experienced backup behind Dragic
    -sidenote: other likely assets they could trade are one of the Morris' and Shannon Brown. I'd take that instead of Frye/Beasly, but I think they'll save them for a deal that could bring back a better player than Bargs.
    -I don't think they care about Frye now, post health issues. Add that Scola can't be happy in that situation, and Bargs needs a change of scenery, and Bargs makes sense for them if he's replacing those 2. They'd still have the Morris' at PF, and Gortat at C.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Apr 17th, 2013 at 11:01 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Why not keep his energy and versatility in the starting line-up? Lets look for a guy like Luis Scola, Carl Landry, Marreese Speights as a first big off the bench. Amir is a Horace Grant/Anotio Davis type guy, he has earned it.
    Mainly because you don't want a drop off when the 2nd unit comes in and he can play both PF and C - especially against the 2nd units of the league. I am not questioning his ability to start.

    I think it was Buddahfan years ago lost his shit on me for my insistence of Amir off the bench. I don't say that as a slight and I don't think his contribution is any less than if he started. Amir coming off the bench, if I were calling the shots, would be about 30 minutes per game with the starter getting roughly the same and JV pushing 34/35 minutes leaving the leftovers for a guy like Acy.

    Let me be clear on one thing: I am a huge fan of Amir.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I still like him as first big off the bench for a number of reasons:

    1) energy - balls out all the time
    2) flexibility - can play PF or C
    3) team first mentality
    While I agree with you with what he can bring, do those benifits mean any more off the bench than as a starter?

    I personally don't really care if he starts or comes off the bench. Amir's per minute production is amazingly consistent regardless of whether he starts or not. I think, generally speaking, the more minutes this team gets from Amir the better they'll be. He should be getting starter minutes (ie. approx 36 a game) and him being on the team means they don't necessarily need another 'starting calibre' PF. Therefore the few resources the team has could be used for something more benificial.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    If Demar can push his 3 point percentage to 30% or better that would be huge, shooting 35% is a tough goal, it would put him firmly in the top 100 shooter in the league.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    It's a lock if you want the exact same team on the floor as this season. We'll win about 35 games.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    It's a lock if you want the exact same team on the floor as this season. We'll win about 35 games.
    So there is no development with a relatively young group of players, and getting an upgrade at a key spot or two off the bench means nothing? Also, how many games did Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson and Val start together this year? The chemistry is building and the team is coming together. The starting five is not the whole roster, but I would be happy with that group to start with.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    So there is no development with a relatively young group of players, and getting an upgrade at a key spot or two off the bench means nothing? Also, how many games did Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson and Val start together this year? The chemistry is building and the team is coming together. The starting five is not the whole roster, but I would be happy with that group to start with.
    It's not that I don't think we'll gain some development of young players, it's that I don't believe in the past 3-4 wins we've had against teams that pretty much laid down and gave in. It depends a lot on the schedule, but to me this is a 30-win team that was handed a few freebies towards the end. I think winning 35 next year would be pretty good if the only thing we gain on our roster is experience and youth development.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    It's not that I don't think we'll gain some development of young players, it's that I don't believe in the past 3-4 wins we've had against teams that pretty much laid down and gave in. It depends a lot on the schedule, but to me this is a 30-win team that was handed a few freebies towards the end. I think winning 35 next year would be pretty good if the only thing we gain on our roster is experience and youth development.
    So you would assume that a 4 and 19 start is normal. And that every close game and bad call etc. is the norm as well?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    it's a lock if you want the exact same team on the floor as this season. We'll win about 35 games.
    ..lol

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    I was not always sold on Amir's ability to be a high quality starter in the NBA, but he has proven me wrong.

    Here are his number form this year as a starter. As of today he has started 37 games so we have a nice sample size.
    35 minutes per game, 54% from the field 79% free throw shooter, 9.5 rebounds per game with 1.8 assists, 1.1 steals and 1.8 blocks, he caps it all off scoring over 12 points per game.

    I think that putting Amir beside a improving Jonas will be a great starting unit, adding a solid versatile vet that can play with either one and the front court could be set. I know there is always talk about adding a guy like Milsap or Josh Smith, but I think with the amount of scoring we are going to get from the 2 and 3 spots, a PF that wants to put up bigger numbers may not be the best fit.

    I am happy with the projected starters for next year, I think an upgrade at back-up PG is needed and a quality 3rd big and the team will really be ready to make some noise, it may not be pretty, but I think we are close!
    I still think the Raps need a PF who has a legit post-up game. If you look at the best teams in the league, there are three constants. A PG who can penetrate and pass, a wing who can penetrate and shoot threes, and a big who can post-up and defend the paint.(well, except Miami, but theyre not a normal team) As much as i like Amir and as good as he is, he really doesnt attract defenders to clear the way for DD or Gay.

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