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Thread: Next years starting PF now a lock?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    I thought that was Austin Rivers. I used to think AR was a great NBA prospect, but his rookie year has me thinking otherwise.
    His numbers are not all that different than what Ross has put up, He had a solid month Of February and a good start to March before he got hurt, I would not write him off just yet.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I love Amir.. and I think he can and should start, but the team needs another legitimate big. Gray/Acy are just not talented enough in my opinion to play more than 30 minutes.. would like a 3rd big who's a veteran in the league that is also good defensively and can play back to the basket legitimately.

    If Gasol is not available then I'd want to try to see if Okafor would be.
    I agree that the 3rd big spot need an upgrade, a solid vet that can spot start when needed and provide solid leadership with a second unit.

  3. #23
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    I thought that was Austin Rivers. I used to think AR was a great NBA prospect, but his rookie year has me thinking otherwise.
    I can't even explain how happy I am they didn't draft Rivers. I was so low on him in the draft. Usually, a tweener guard excels at something (beyond just shooting) in order to merit a lottery pick...as in they display incredible speed/control, or a legitimate set of PG skills, or capable of defending either position in the backcourt....Rivers is the opposite of all these things. He isn't very fast or quick with the ball, he isn't a great creator and passer, and I'm not sure he could defend me out there...

  4. #24
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    It would be pretty funny to pair up Beasley with Bargnani though. Two players with tonnes of potential that just don't give a sh!t.
    I agree...it would be hilarious. If it happens, hopefully in PHX, it would also work out so well with a tanking strategy, which seems by far like the best plan for them going into next year.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    So there is no development with a relatively young group of players, and getting an upgrade at a key spot or two off the bench means nothing? Also, how many games did Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson and Val start together this year? The chemistry is building and the team is coming together. The starting five is not the whole roster, but I would be happy with that group to start with.
    It's not that I don't think we'll gain some development of young players, it's that I don't believe in the past 3-4 wins we've had against teams that pretty much laid down and gave in. It depends a lot on the schedule, but to me this is a 30-win team that was handed a few freebies towards the end. I think winning 35 next year would be pretty good if the only thing we gain on our roster is experience and youth development.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    His numbers are not all that different than what Ross has put up, He had a solid month Of February and a good start to March before he got hurt, I would not write him off just yet.
    in other words, just like ross, AR has also been just as abysmal and have no real impact on the game at all.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I still think the Raps need a PF who has a legit post-up game. If you look at the best teams in the league, there are three constants. A PG who can penetrate and pass, a wing who can penetrate and shoot threes, and a big who can post-up and defend the paint.(well, except Miami, but theyre not a normal team) As much as i like Amir and as good as he is, he really doesnt attract defenders to clear the way for DD or Gay.
    If the post scoring comes from JV, it won't matter as much. But JV has a ways to go before he refines his post game so here's to hoping that they can bring in Sabonis, Hakeem, Kareem etc. to work with him this summer. It would at the very least speed up his development.

  8. #28
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    While JV is not a finished product, his post game is any thing but raw.

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  12. #31
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I still believe that Johnson is best suited as the team's backup PF / 3rd big, allowing him to sigificantly improve the team's 2nd unit and thrive against the opposition's backups.

    I think players like Millsap, Gasol and Boozer could all potentially fit with the starting lineup better than Johnson, because they're all more polished offensively. I also think they'd be able to fit well next to Valanciunas. Each of them and JV are capable of both posting-up down low or playing in the high-post, where they can run the P&R and hit a short jumper. With JV and the new starting PF both being able to play in the high or low post, with the PF drawing double-teams far more than Johnson does, I think it would do wonders for the Raptors' offensive gameplanning. An upgraded starting PF gives them many more options to run plays through them, will help facilitate better ball movement, will open up driving lanes (for both penetration and drive-and-kicks for open 3pt shots) and would likely result in a guy like Fields to get open for easy looks (defenses will lose him, especially as a result of double-teams and rotating to cover better ball movement).

    Johnson doesn't draw double-teams and tends to drift outside too often. Yes his mid-range shot has improved, but that's really not needed in a starting lineup that is already too in love with long jumpers. Even with him being moved into the 2nd unit, he'll still get lots of playing time as the team's 3rd big, capable of playing C & PF in a 3-big rotation. The team would still have Gray (for matchups against true C's) and Acy (small ball lineups with Johnson at C) as 4th/5th big, though neither would likely play more than spot minutes.

    Of course, it would likely cost the Raptors DeRozan to acquire Millsap (and possibly Gasol). Boozer could potentially be had for the cheapest cost, but he's personally my last choice from those 3 (due primarily to contract amount and length).

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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I still think the Raps need a PF who has a legit post-up game. If you look at the best teams in the league, there are three constants. A PG who can penetrate and pass, a wing who can penetrate and shoot threes, and a big who can post-up and defend the paint.(well, except Miami, but theyre not a normal team) As much as i like Amir and as good as he is, he really doesnt attract defenders to clear the way for DD or Gay.
    I don't disagree that we need a post presence, but why does it have to be a PF? Isn't having JV who is show tremendous growth and some versatility in the post going to accomplish the same thing? I would be nice to have someone who has a bit of both, which I would argue that Amir does.

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  15. #33
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    It's not that I don't think we'll gain some development of young players, it's that I don't believe in the past 3-4 wins we've had against teams that pretty much laid down and gave in. It depends a lot on the schedule, but to me this is a 30-win team that was handed a few freebies towards the end. I think winning 35 next year would be pretty good if the only thing we gain on our roster is experience and youth development.
    So you would assume that a 4 and 19 start is normal. And that every close game and bad call etc. is the norm as well?

  16. #34
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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    While JV is not a finished product, his post game is any thing but raw.
    Didnt care or was intimidated at all by Melo just goes right by him dunk and one walks off like a BAD ASS MOTHER FUCKER. Loved that go JV! Melo is just on the ground like..... travel! ... :|

  17. #35
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    There's no reason to change the starting lineup. For spacing, Amir is comfortable out to mid-range which gives JV space. Do the Raps need to improve their bench? Yes. But IF they move Amir to the bench to improve it, they need to insure that the starting pf doesn't affect floor spacing.

    This team is desperate for a real backup pg, and a solid post player (both could be bench guys). A perfect example would be Scola, but I don't see how they can get him.

    No need to change the starting lineup. Players need to show up in shape... All these wins have been against playoff teams. Maybe 1 or 2 could be considered a fluke, but not 5 of 6. That appears to be more trend than fluke.

  18. #36
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    There's no reason to change the starting lineup. For spacing, Amir is comfortable out to mid-range which gives JV space. Do the Raps need to improve their bench? Yes. But IF they move Amir to the bench to improve it, they need to insure that the starting pf doesn't affect floor spacing.

    This team is desperate for a real backup pg, and a solid post player (both could be bench guys). A perfect example would be Scola, but I don't see how they can get him.

    No need to change the starting lineup. Players need to show up in shape... All these wins have been against playoff teams. Maybe 1 or 2 could be considered a fluke, but not 5 of 6. That appears to be more trend than fluke.
    Chicago was playing without Noah/Gibson and Deng in the first game, and then without Noah/Gibson in the second. Atlanta was playing without Horford. Brooklyn was without Wallace (although that's not that big of a deal). Minnesota/Washington were non-playoff team wins. They got spanked by Milwaukee and lost by 10 to Detroit.

    If they played this well when games mattered and when everyone was healthy then it's not a fluke in my opinion. But wins at the end of the season against teams with their best players are sitting out is not a "real" win in my opinion. Especially when the wins don't matter as much for either team.

  19. #37
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Chicago was playing without Noah/Gibson and Deng in the first game, and then without Noah/Gibson in the second. Atlanta was playing without Horford. Brooklyn was without Wallace (although that's not that big of a deal). Minnesota/Washington were non-playoff team wins. They got spanked by Milwaukee and lost by 10 to Detroit.

    If they played this well when games mattered and when everyone was healthy then it's not a fluke in my opinion. But wins at the end of the season against teams with their best players are sitting out is not a "real" win in my opinion. Especially when the wins don't matter as much for either team.
    I guess our roster was at 100%....

  20. #38
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    There's no reason to change the starting lineup. For spacing, Amir is comfortable out to mid-range which gives JV space. Do the Raps need to improve their bench? Yes. But IF they move Amir to the bench to improve it, they need to insure that the starting pf doesn't affect floor spacing.

    This team is desperate for a real backup pg, and a solid post player (both could be bench guys). A perfect example would be Scola, but I don't see how they can get him.

    No need to change the starting lineup. Players need to show up in shape... All these wins have been against playoff teams. Maybe 1 or 2 could be considered a fluke, but not 5 of 6. That appears to be more trend than fluke.
    I HATE Johnson playing so far from the basket; it's one of the main reasons I'd prefer him to be replaced by a more traditional PF in the starting lineup! One of the big problems with the offense this season has been the fact that it's too perimeter oriented, due to a lack of a consistent inside presence and too many chuckers (Gay, DeRozan and Lowry) who settle for long 2's and 3's.

    When Johnson plays outside, he does nothing to help Valanciunas or the others. The opposing defense is happy to let the chuckers settle for long shots, while Valanciunas is often left fighting 1-on-5 for offensive rebounds.

    The main reason I want a new starting PF is to force the defenses to deal with 2 inside players, one of which (the new PF) draws consistent double-teams. This will create more lanes for dribble-penetration, either to finish at the rim (score and/or get fouled) or to draw-and-kick to open players on the perimeter. The latter will result in either an open 3pt shot or the start of ball movement around the perimeter that forces the defense to switch and cover, ideally resulting in an open high % look.

  21. #39
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I still think the Raps need a PF who has a legit post-up game. If you look at the best teams in the league, there are three constants. A PG who can penetrate and pass, a wing who can penetrate and shoot threes, and a big who can post-up and defend the paint.(well, except Miami, but theyre not a normal team) As much as i like Amir and as good as he is, he really doesnt attract defenders to clear the way for DD or Gay.
    OKC has great interior presence defensively, but Ibaka is mainly a face-up player, and we all know Kendrick Perkins is not an offensive option.

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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    His numbers are not all that different than what Ross has put up, He had a solid month Of February and a good start to March before he got hurt, I would not write him off just yet.
    Check the stats again. Ross' PER is close to double that of Rivers. I was listening to Bill Simmons podcast last week and he called Rivers' season "the worst in the history of the NBA." I haven't watched Rivers enough this year to jump on that bandwagon.

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