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Thread: Raptors Free Agent targets?

  1. #21

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    I don't think most people on this forum realize how important Amir Johnson is to our defensive rotations. Ask yourselves, how many times have we seen a game turn around when Amir goes down/is taken out? Hell we wouldn't have been up by 20 at half last night if it weren't for Amir's 6 blocks, it would have just been open lanes all game. With Boozer, we'd be getting a horrible team defender who might help us on offense but would need the ball in his hands taking away from Jonas, Rudy and Demar as well as Ross. Amir is exactly the high-efficiency guy we need on offense, the type who doesn't need set plays to score. Plus, he's our best defender and rebounder and is starting to hit some long jumpers.

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  3. #22
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    No, people respect Amir here. The issue is whether he does his thing as a starter or if he improves the bench. The Raptor bench is BAD. Amir could be the first sub on for the PF or C position. That would dramatically improve the bench. I don't think that's necessary, if the Raps get a solid low cost big then all of Amir's pluses stays with the starters and they save a bit of money. Other's don't think that's viable, hence, they want to bring in a PF like Boozer.

    No one is under estimating Amir's presence on this team.

    Welcome to RR.

  4. #23
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote [email protected] wrote: View Post
    I don't think most people on this forum realize how important Amir Johnson is to our defensive rotations. Ask yourselves, how many times have we seen a game turn around when Amir goes down/is taken out? Hell we wouldn't have been up by 20 at half last night if it weren't for Amir's 6 blocks, it would have just been open lanes all game. With Boozer, we'd be getting a horrible team defender who might help us on offense but would need the ball in his hands taking away from Jonas, Rudy and Demar as well as Ross. Amir is exactly the high-efficiency guy we need on offense, the type who doesn't need set plays to score. Plus, he's our best defender and rebounder and is starting to hit some long jumpers.

    Amir is greatly appreciated on this team.

    He can play 30 minutes coming off the bench just like he can starting.

    As was mentioned, the Raps bench sucks. He is a great benefit coming off it because he can play both PF and C plus he is a total class act, team player who plays balls out. Those guys are in short supply in starting lineups and pretty much non-existent coming off the bench.
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  5. #24
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    If boozer is on the table for bargs you make that trade and don't look back. I think Amir absolutely has earned the starting spot, and if we don't land a PF who can score down low and in the high post like booze you roll with him. But if you can get booze you do cuz Amir will still see 30mins like most ppl who've wtched all season have noted. Then you go after a back up pg someone like earl watson ( believe hes a FA and wouldn't be expensive) or CJ miles ( prolly won't leave bkn but you can try). Those are the type of back up pgs you need.

    I think if we can't trade bargs we amnesty him, and make a run at a veteran rotational PF like elton brand and a shooter or back up pg like korver/dunleavy or watson/miles.

    One more thing, despite devin harris' inconsistencies over the years ..hes a MAJOR upgrade to anything we currently have.
    Last edited by C-Low; Thu Apr 18th, 2013 at 03:20 AM.

  6. #25
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    Boozer's contract is a bit too scary for what you're getting as a player and personality imo. Since we are talking about trade possibilities as much as free agents I would love to see the Raptor's put a package together to try and get one of the true beasts of the East which nobody talks about, Al Horford. Horford next to JV and Amir would give us one of, if not the best front court in the East.

  7. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Boozer's contract is a bit too scary for what you're getting as a player and personality imo. Since we are talking about trade possibilities as much as free agents I would love to see the Raptor's put a package together to try and get one of the true beasts of the East which nobody talks about, Al Horford. Horford next to JV and Amir would give us one of, if not the best front court in the East.
    I think it would take trading JV to Atlanta to get Horford back. I think they love Horford over there and will not be giving him away cheaply.

  8. #27
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Boozer's contract is a bit too scary for what you're getting as a player and personality imo. Since we are talking about trade possibilities as much as free agents I would love to see the Raptor's put a package together to try and get one of the true beasts of the East which nobody talks about, Al Horford. Horford next to JV and Amir would give us one of, if not the best front court in the East.
    I don't think you get Horford without giving up JV.
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  9. #28
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    Guys just because Amir CAN start doesn't mean the team is best served by it. He will give you the exact same energy and effort off the bench. I can not tell you how important a deep bench is come playoff time. He will still play starters minutes, he may even be on the floor at the end of games. Just remember there are 96 minutes to go around between the 4 and 5 positions, and to not have any drop off is huge.

  10. #29
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    Someone work out a boozer trade where we also get Butler. Sweet sweet Butler.
    @jerboat

  11. #30
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I think it would take trading JV to Atlanta to get Horford back. I think they love Horford over there and will not be giving him away cheaply.
    I agree that trading for Horford wouldn't be easy, but considering since he's come to ATL, Danny Ferry has unloaded both the Joe Johnson contract as well as Marvin Williams, and not made an attempt to resign Josh Smith to an extension it's clear he's trying to unload salary to go after a "big fish" in the off season, aka Dwight Howard. If he strikes out he will be looking to the summer of 2015 when LeBron along with a plethora of other star players become free agents.

    If trading Bargnani plus our first rounder in next years draft gets him further under the salary cap as well as increases the chances of Atlanta's pick being higher (via tanking) the move may make sense to him. Two shots at Wiggins is a good thing for a team looking to rebuild.

    Another scenario which may play out is that if we are approaching next years trade deadline and the season is going the same way as this years is then a team like ATL that is looking to make big moves in free agency would really covet Rudy Gay's contract. Actually any team looking to go after free agents in the year of LeBron free agency would covet that contract, so perhaps a Gay for Horford and filler would be appealing to both teams at that point.

  12. #31
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    Horford only gets moved for Dwight Howard. I thought this was obvious. Atlanta has been rumored since last year to be after Dwight. Now, I don't think he will choose to go to Atlanta, but the Hawks have to keep the only asset they have to use in such a deal. Yes, I know Dwight is a free agent, but a player of his calibre gets re-signed for whatever max he gets with his "current" team even if he wants to go. So Howard basically is either signed by LA, or signed and traded by LA. This makes the teams that can chase him the ones that actually have an asset (beyond picks) to take back. I mean, LA would clearly take Horford and a couple of picks rather than lose Howard for nothing, and Howard would rather get the extra money. Although I think Howard stays in LA.

  13. #32
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I agree that trading for Horford wouldn't be easy, but considering since he's come to ATL, Danny Ferry has unloaded both the Joe Johnson contract as well as Marvin Williams, and not made an attempt to resign Josh Smith to an extension it's clear he's trying to unload salary to go after a "big fish" in the off season, aka Dwight Howard. If he strikes out he will be looking to the summer of 2015 when LeBron along with a plethora of other star players become free agents.

    If trading Bargnani plus our first rounder in next years draft gets him further under the salary cap as well as increases the chances of Atlanta's pick being higher (via tanking) the move may make sense to him. Two shots at Wiggins is a good thing for a team looking to rebuild.

    Another scenario which may play out is that if we are approaching next years trade deadline and the season is going the same way as this years is then a team like ATL that is looking to make big moves in free agency would really covet Rudy Gay's contract. Actually any team looking to go after free agents in the year of LeBron free agency would covet that contract, so perhaps a Gay for Horford and filler would be appealing to both teams at that point.
    I agree with the rationale, but not with what ATL will take back. If the core of the deal is Bargnani, I think you're looking at giving up Ross as well. Atlanta is desperate for young talent on the wings, and you can't give up one of the most solid and consistent frontcourt players in the league for Bargnani and the uncertainty of a pick.

    You can't just tank, you need to still amass assets. I mean if they tanked and got the 6th pick, and no good player came of it, they'd have basically no young core whatsoever, and will have missed on the best draft in a decade, being stuck sucking for 2-3 more years and hoping a gem falls into their lap in the draft in one of those years. Atlanta can't afford that. They struggle with attendance as a good team. A 3-5 year rebuild might see them lose a lot of money and leave the city.

  14. #33
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    I was thinking that Ferry, as a Popovich deciple is trying to build through the draft. Only Horford would remain as part of the winning Hawks era next season, and if you move him it's full on tank mode because there is a really good chance that Josh Smith moves on over the summer. I'm thinking that first round picks are something Ferry would value very much along with getting further under the salary cap.

    Just looking at other options besides the Boozer/Gasol trades which I'm not really that trilled about. I'd love to see Horford and JV man the paint for Toronto.

  15. #34
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I was thinking that Ferry, as a Popovich deciple is trying to build through the draft. Only Horford would remain as part of the winning Hawks era next season, and if you move him it's full on tank mode because there is a really good chance that Josh Smith moves on over the summer. I'm thinking that first round picks are something Ferry would value very much along with getting further under the salary cap.

    Just looking at other options besides the Boozer/Gasol trades which I'm not really that trilled about. I'd love to see Horford and JV man the paint for Toronto.
    Horford is still young and a great player. I think Ferry could turn Smith into multiple assets - ie: good young talent and draft picks. Plus, they will have plenty of cap space to add additional talent over the next few offseasons.

    I don't think his intention is to go into full tank mode, but rather is a 2-option re-tooling plan: Option 1 is to keep Smith and use him to lure Howard; Option 2 is to use Smith as trade bait if Howard declines.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Horford is still young and a great player. I think Ferry could turn Smith into multiple assets - ie: good young talent and draft picks. Plus, they will have plenty of cap space to add additional talent over the next few offseasons.

    I don't think his intention is to go into full tank mode, but rather is a 2-option re-tooling plan: Option 1 is to keep Smith and use him to lure Howard; Option 2 is to use Smith as trade bait if Howard declines.
    Smith is a free agent now isn't he? The trend as of late with free agents is that they don't agree to sign and trades so that it gives them more freedom to chose their destination. I think Ferry just let him walk which gives you an idea of what his priorities are, ie. getting under salary cap.

  17. #36
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Smith is a free agent now isn't he? The trend as of late with free agents is that they don't agree to sign and trades so that it gives them more freedom to chose their destination. I think Ferry just let him walk which gives you an idea of what his priorities are, ie. getting under salary cap.
    The new CBA makes it more advantageous to wait until free agent to sign contract (3 year extension versus 4 year as UFA).

    Reportedly, Hawks offered 3 years and over $15M per season.
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  18. #37
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I think the forum would be really well served if any of our cap knowledgeable people could break down picks/cap/amnesty/tpe/provisions rules re: sign and trades etc, specific to the Raptors. I think it would go a long way to informing MOST of the debates we are going to be having up until October

  19. #38
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The new CBA makes it more advantageous to wait until free agent to sign contract (3 year extension versus 4 year as UFA).

    Reportedly, Hawks offered 3 years and over $15M per season.
    That's to whose advantage though? The player or the team? I would think Ferry's mentality is that he values the salary coming off the books more so than anything he perceives he could get for Smith if he is willing to take the chance that Smith walks. Another reason why I think ATL is going into a rebuild through the draft mode more so than a Denver type reloading of talent.

  20. #39
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    How does that work?

    Bargnani's salary will be $10.75M, which means the Raps could take back up to $13.5375M [(10.75*1.25)+0.1], but Boozer will be making $15.3M. Given that the Raps will be far over the cap, don't they need to stay within the confines of the formula?
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sorry, amnesty Kleiza first. But even with that you are still correct. I thought the threshold was when the luxury tax implications came in... I was wrong.

    Bargnani's trade value is actually $11.28 due to his 5% trade kicker.

    Interesting how JL3's contract added makes up the difference. Still saves $2.5M ($6.25 salary and tax) for the Bulls which is good but more importantly sees $4.8M come off their 2014-15 payroll to sign Mirotic. JL3 was a favourite in the locker room and of Thibs, too.



    But yeah, I was wrong on the one for one.... and I"ve said that in a few other threads.... sorry.

    Oh, I forgot this yesterday. Boozer for Bargnani straight up if the salary cap/luxury tax rates increase by $2.07M. Larry Coon has talked about $5M increase.

    $72.95 - current commitments
    $68.35 - amnesty Kleiza

    $70.3 - current luxury tax

    $15.3 - Boozer
    $11.28 - Bargnani after 5% trade kicker

    $68.35 - post amnesty
    $4.02 - difference in Boozer and Bargnani
    $72.37 - add Boozer, minus Bargnani

    $2.07M increase in luxury tax makes Boozer for Bargnani, one for one possible.
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  21. #40
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Oh, I forgot this yesterday. Boozer for Bargnani straight up if the salary cap/luxury tax rates increase by $2.07M. Larry Coon has talked about $5M increase.

    $72.95 - current commitments
    $68.35 - amnesty Kleiza

    $70.3 - current luxury tax

    $15.3 - Boozer
    $11.28 - Bargnani after 5% trade kicker

    $68.35 - post amnesty
    $4.02 - difference in Boozer and Bargnani
    $72.37 - add Boozer, minus Bargnani

    $2.07M increase in luxury tax makes Boozer for Bargnani, one for one possible.
    Thanks for the update Matt.

    I thought the "(outgoing salary * 1.25) + 100k" rule was in effect if the team was over the salary cap number though, as opposed to the luxury tax number (which is what your breakdown seems to imply).

    That's why I thought that even if the Raptors were to shed the salaries of Kleiza (via amnesty), Lucas (via declined team option) and Gray (via declined player option), and if the salary/luxury tax rates were to increase, the Raps still wouldn't be able to do a straight-up Bargnani/Boozer deal.

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