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Thread: Front office drama: "I never tried to fire Casey." - Colangelo

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    Steven Simmons is a no-talent hack. He is awful on The Reports. Hodge & Arthur carry that show.

    But, I wouldn't put anything past our idiot GM either.

    I choose not to believe Simmons' report because so many other TO media members are connected at MSLE and nobody corroborated the story.
    Um, Eric Koreen and Bruce Arthur both corroborated the story in December. And again this morning on Twitter (Koreen, anyway).
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  2. #22
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    I am still pissed that there was no strategic management of last season's end weeks (some people call it tanking) so we might have had a shot at a player like Lilliard. Does anyone remember who N. Jersey played in one of those last games against the Raps...nobodies...when they had already traded their draft pick. Wouldnt have surprised me if their thinking was that having a higher pick go to Portland in effect weakens the Raps. How would Lilliard looked on the Raps and still have our pick this year? This is the NBA and teams like the Raps can realistically only get their best thru the draft.

  3. #23
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Um, Eric Koreen and Bruce Arthur both corroborated the story in December. And again this morning on Twitter (Koreen, anyway).
    My bad. The report is probably true then. That's a bit of a can of worms then, innit? Problems:

    GM without power to make coaching staff decisions
    GM willing to uproot any potential stability after building a roster of young players
    GM looking for a scapegoat despite failures pre-dating coach's tenture
    GM out of sync with ownership AND coaching staff
    Key players assembled by the same GM are locked in for at least 2 more years

    Ooof.

  4. #24
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    I think we can all agree here that BC is a guy that wouldn't give up this easily

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I am still pissed that there was no strategic management of last season's end weeks (some people call it tanking) so we might have had a shot at a player like Lilliard. Does anyone remember who N. Jersey played in one of those last games against the Raps...nobodies...when they had already traded their draft pick. Wouldnt have surprised me if their thinking was that having a higher pick go to Portland in effect weakens the Raps. How would Lilliard looked on the Raps and still have our pick this year? This is the NBA and teams like the Raps can realistically only get their best thru the draft.
    NJ's draft pick was protected so they were tanking in an attempt (hope) that they'd keep it.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I am still pissed that there was no strategic management of last season's end weeks (some people call it tanking) so we might have had a shot at a player like Lilliard. Does anyone remember who N. Jersey played in one of those last games against the Raps...nobodies...when they had already traded their draft pick. Wouldnt have surprised me if their thinking was that having a higher pick go to Portland in effect weakens the Raps. How would Lilliard looked on the Raps and still have our pick this year? This is the NBA and teams like the Raps can realistically only get their best thru the draft.
    Even if they got the 6th pick, the Raptors would have drafted Barnes, not Lillard. So the chase for Nash would have still happened... Fields would have been signed... Lowry would have been traded for the 2013 pick... and Bryan would have still had a hard on for Gay. Nothing would have changed except we would have had Barnes instead of Ross neither of which would have gotten a lot of minutes.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Even if they got the 6th pick, the Raptors would have drafted Barnes, not Lillard. So the chase for Nash would have still happened... Fields would have been signed... Lowry would have been traded for the 2013 pick... and Bryan would have still had a hard on for Gay. Nothing would have changed except we would have had Barnes instead of Ross neither of which would have gotten a lot of minutes.
    Why do you say that? I always thought that Lillard was top on their board.

    *And I say that as someone who wasn't high on him in the draft.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 18th, 2013 at 06:53 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Maybe. When the team was 4-17 Colangelo went on TV during a game and said it wasn't a talent issue, which pointed the finger squarely at the coaching staff. Then, just to cover his bases, he also took that opportunity to throw his #5 overall pick and future of the franchise under the bus, back over him, and then park on his legs.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Colangelo was politicking all season and blaming various people for his failures. It's been his M.O. for 5 years and it's worked. He's ran through a laundry list of coaches and players only to fail with every single Frankenstein monster he's created, yet, here he is and there is no indication he is going anywhere.

    My guess would be that they'll keep BC for one more year, he'll keep Casey, the team will start slow and Casey will be gone mid-season. Then, Colangelo can blame next season's failure on having to bring in a new coach who needs a full training camp. And back on the merry-go-round we go....
    Couldn't disagree more. I don't this BC called out the coaching staff at all but the players not being able or willing to execute the game plan during the opening stretch of the season. I think he was right frankly. I at no time has BC throw Val under any bus.

  9. #29
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I wonder if Simmons will lose his access to the Raptors like Feschuk apparently did. Don't want to cross Bryan, or else...
    Is it crossing Bryan or just blatantly lying? I would ban him too.

  10. #30
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    ...at no time has BC throw Val under any bus.
    I remember the interview and I don't remember BC doing that either. The team finished 30-29 since the 4-19 start. Colangelo is a born salesman, so there's a good chance he's going to stay. Personally, I don't care if BC stays or gets fired. The rebuild is done and these are the players (for the most part) that'll try to get the team in the playoffs next year. Anybody they hire will not make any major changes in terms of personnel. Casey's job would be another matter.
    Last edited by Michel G; Thu Apr 18th, 2013 at 10:27 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Just keep lowering the bar. After 7 seasons, we are now at the point where just making the playoffs next year, even if just for one year and in 8th place, would be considered a massive success.

    It's funny cause after the 2008 season, I remember fans being hugely disappointed they couldn't get past Orlando into the second round of the playoffs and had seemingly maxed out as an Atlanta type team. Now, 5 years later, no one even talks about winning a playoff series anymore.
    Oh so true.

    Just making the playoffs next year would be considered some major accomplishment now.lol

    It's a joke. Colangelo has made this team irrelevant on so many levels. What bothers me the most is what constitutes success now for this franchise. Good job Bryan.

  12. #32
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    Steve Simmons is notorious for making baseless remarks and I think this is one of them.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  13. #33
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    Steve Simmons is notorious for making baseless remarks and I think this is one of them.
    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Um, Eric Koreen and Bruce Arthur both corroborated the story in December. And again this morning on Twitter (Koreen, anyway).
    Hey Eric could you do us all a favor and read the thread that you're commenting on? Your "accusation" has already been rebuffed.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Hey Eric could you do us all a favor and read the thread that you're commenting on? Your "accusation" has already been rebuffed.
    Not that I care, but the claim that Colangelo tried to get Casey fired back in December, by reporters who cited front office sources, hasn't been rebuffed anywhere, by anyone, other than Colangelo himself. One of the reporters reiterated yesterday that those stories were 100% factual. So basically it's a "he said, she said" situation. Believe whichever side you want.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Hey Eric could you do us all a favor and read the thread that you're commenting on? Your "accusation" has already been rebuffed.
    Colangelo is denying a rebuffed accusation is what you're saying. BC on his own accord texted Simmons to challenge the accusation. Simmons has not gotten back to BC and never will.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  16. #36
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    What is he supposed to do? Give up his sources to a company that bullies journalists? Please, for something to run in print and be corroborated by multiple journalists it is a lock that it is fact. If it wasn't lawsuits would be flying. All BC is trying to do is find a mole/s.

  17. #37
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    I better elaborate. A story like this the journalist would have to give the report to their editor with details of who his sources are, how accurate those sources have been in the past, etc. The fact that multiple journalists are agreeing with the report it indicates that there are either multiple sources or an extremely reliable source that all of them (trusted and non-trusted journalist) use because he/she/its information is consistently accurate.

  18. #38
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    This isn't really that big of a story to me, even if it's 100% true. Why wouldn't BC toss around the idea of firing Casey after such a terrible start? I truly believe that Colangelo thought the team would be a serious contender for the playoffs in the East and when they fell flat on their face to start the year, I'm sure the subject of a coaching change was definitely brought up.

    Now, whether Colangelo was being completely delusional when he had this team penciled in for ~45 wins before the season began is a completely different topic. However it doesn't surprise me that the idea of firing Casey got kicked around. It's not exactly Phil Jackson we're talking about here. The team was terrible record wise, had a handful of late game collapses and the locker room situation seemed dire as well (team only meeting; Bargnani and Lowry get called out)... would anyone have been shocked if Casey got the axe? Plus Colangelo undoubtedly had eyes on saving his own ass, and blaming DC for the team's shortcomings would have certainly deflected a lot of attention elsewhere.

  19. #39
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Maybe. When the team was 4-17 Colangelo went on TV during a game and said it wasn't a talent issue, which pointed the finger squarely at the coaching staff. Then, just to cover his bases, he also took that opportunity to throw his #5 overall pick and future of the franchise under the bus, back over him, and then park on his legs.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Colangelo was politicking all season and blaming various people for his failures. It's been his M.O. for 5 years and it's worked. He's ran through a laundry list of coaches and players only to fail with every single Frankenstein monster he's created, yet, here he is and there is no indication he is going anywhere.

    My guess would be that they'll keep BC for one more year, he'll keep Casey, the team will start slow and Casey will be gone mid-season. Then, Colangelo can blame next season's failure on having to bring in a new coach who needs a full training camp. And back on the merry-go-round we go....
    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    Couldn't disagree more. I don't this BC called out the coaching staff at all but the players not being able or willing to execute the game plan during the opening stretch of the season. I think he was right frankly. I at no time has BC throw Val under any bus.
    Exactly CT2010!!!! To say that "pointed the finger squarely at the coaching staff" is simplistic foolishness, imo. Gee, any chance that the "it wasn't a talent issue" statement could have pointed at players not playing up to their potential, players needing time to get to know each other, along with injuries, being reference to it not being about talent? It amazes me that so many people interpreted that as such. It's one thing to criticize reality, but another to twist a few words someone says into such certainty of insanity.

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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    What is he supposed to do? Give up his sources to a company that bullies journalists? Please, for something to run in print and be corroborated by multiple journalists it is a lock that it is fact. If it wasn't lawsuits would be flying. All BC is trying to do is find a mole/s.
    We're not talking of a trade rumour or an allegation of somebody doing something. When you directly accuse somebody of doing something you have to be able to back it up with proof. Anybody can make an accusation and refuse to prove it with excuses like 'can't reveal the source 'cause being a journalist I may get bullied'.

    Simmons was simply creating a stir for attention. Nobody would or should believe otherwise until proved.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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