View Poll Results: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

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Thread: HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

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  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

    From Stephen Brotherston, the beginning:

    As Toronto Raptors president and general manager Bryan Colangelo awaits a decision from Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment about picking up the option year on his contract, the local media has been generous with their advice on what his future should be.

    Toronto missed the playoffs for the fifth consecutive year during a season when 38 wins was enough to grab eighth place in the Eastern Conference. During the past seven seasons under Colangelo’s guidance, the team has made the postseason only twice and averaged just 34 wins. On the surface at least, the calls for Colangelo’s head on a platter seem to be justified, however, one needs to look at his entire body of work in Toronto before jumping to conclusions.
    ...... and the end:


    If Colangelo has proven anything over the past seven years, it is that he can make deals, even if many of the players acquired seem to get hurt soon after they arrive. Despite this, during the current rebuild, the talent level on the Raptors has improved and this team is poised to make a serious challenge at the postseason once again. Under the circumstances, the outright firing of Colangelo would make little sense. Colangelo has a strong board room and public relations presence and is an excellent choice to represent ownership with the NBA Board of Governors. If ownership believes Colangelo’s past moves entailed a level of risk that they are not comfortable with going forward, the better solution would be to give Stefanski a bigger say in future transactions. This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/should-rap...ryan-colangelo
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  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
    You mean, this isn't enough to sway you back to Colangelo's side:

    The big moves in the summer of 2007 were the signings of free agents Jason Kapono and Jamario Moon and a trade for Carlos Delfino.

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
    I disagree. I don't think that this article was an endorsement, but it does suggest that there is little reason to fire him. Firing Colangelo now is reactionary and not looking to the future IMO. His ability to swing deals is better than anyone we have had in the past, that those transactions have failed to get us beyond the first round of the playoffs is not his fault. All of his moves have been highly touted at the time. Once the rebuild took place he has done exactly what he needed to do, including this year! He traded the draft pick, t get a high quality PG who helps this team now. Its not like we were going to use that pick on anyone who would approach Lowry's abilities. Like everyone said earlier this year, we HAD to miss the playoffs this year to get that 1st rnd pick out of here on an off-year draft. This is an ideal situation. We have talent, we will have picks again.

    The team is in a good position moving forward and now I want a GM who can make a deal to improve this team. BC is that guy.

    The last comment really resonates with me; this franchise NEEDS stability. It has to happen. I'm fine with this current group. Leave it alone MLSE.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote c_bcm wrote: View Post
    I disagree. I don't think that this article was an endorsement, but it does suggest that there is little reason to fire him. Firing Colangelo now is reactionary and not looking to the future IMO. His ability to swing deals is better than anyone we have had in the past, that those transactions have failed to get us beyond the first round of the playoffs is not his fault. All of his moves have been highly touted at the time. Once the rebuild took place he has done exactly what he needed to do, including this year! He traded the draft pick, t get a high quality PG who helps this team now. Its not like we were going to use that pick on anyone who would approach Lowry's abilities. Like everyone said earlier this year, we HAD to miss the playoffs this year to get that 1st rnd pick out of here on an off-year draft. This is an ideal situation. We have talent, we will have picks again.

    The team is in a good position moving forward and now I want a GM who can make a deal to improve this team. BC is that guy.

    The last comment really resonates with me; this franchise NEEDS stability. It has to happen. I'm fine with this current group. Leave it alone MLSE.
    You should read Brotherston's Raptor chats on Mondays at HoopsWorld.com. It is essentially Matt and Leo/Jack talking pieces rehashed. There is not a single thought or idea that has not already been put out by the Raptors/MLSE. I don't mean to be disrespectful to Stephen Brotherston but whatever the Raptors/MLSE are selling, he is buying hand over fist of late. If the Raptors/MLSE really knew what they were doing, would we really be looking at the 5th consecutive year without a playoff berth and would this really have been the 7th best year in franchise history? This article was meant to be a "here is why Colangelo should stay" piece. Unfortunately, it only rehashes 7 years of errors with minimal successes with an end result of a 5 year playoff drought. In the quest for continuity the answer is not the person responsible for 7 years of upheaval.

    There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.
    Can you make that part of you go away?

    If we bring in someone else, you won't need to be curious about what that person does with Bargnani. He will be traded or amnestied. What we get in return for Bargnani will be the same -- Bargnani's last 7 years speak for themselves, there's no way to spin it any other way.
    your pal,
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    If MLSE had decided to go a different route and hire someone else two years ago, it would have made sense. Instead they chose to extend him and allow him to rebuild. When they did so, it was clear what was going to happen. After allowing him to rebuild so far, which was why he got an extension, it makes no sense to fire him. I'm not suggesting that he gets another extension but it only makes sense to pick up his option year. If the team still fails to at least make the play-offs, then don't extend him and start afresh. I know it's frustrating to wait another year but it's the only sensible thing to do IMO.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    If MLSE had decided to go a different route and hire someone else two years ago, it would have made sense. Instead they chose to extend him and allow him to rebuild. When they did so, it was clear what was going to happen. After allowing him to rebuild so far, which was why he got an extension, it makes no sense to fire him. I'm not suggesting that he gets another extension but it only makes sense to pick up his option year. If the team still fails to at least make the play-offs, then don't extend him and start afresh. I know it's frustrating to wait another year but it's the only sensible thing to do IMO.
    I don't understand this perspective. Do you think Colangelo has developed a trojan horse virus, where he will activate the minute he gets fired, and when the next GM who is hired tries to check out our roster, the files will become corrupt and unreadable? Perhaps you think the payroll records, and all the statistics recorded by statisticians and SportsVU will suddenly become locked and only Colangelo has the key? And then they will have to call Colangelo and beg him to unlock the secrets on how to run a franchise properly?
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't understand this perspective. Do you think Colangelo has developed a trojan horse virus, where he will activate the minute he gets fired, and when the next GM who is hired tries to check out our roster, the files will become corrupt and unreadable? Perhaps you think the payroll records, and all the statistics recorded by statisticians and SportsVU will suddenly become locked and only Colangelo has the key? And then they will have to call Colangelo and beg him to unlock the secrets on how to run a franchise properly?
    None of the above.

    I personally wold prefer not to do something AT ALL than to HAVE to leave it half done or incomplete. Same applies when I ask someone to do something for me. That person would appreciate if I allowed him/her to complete the task than being asked to stop half way.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    It's also hilarious that the guy's argument is basically that Toronto should keep him for stability, but the main part of his argument for why BC is good is that he's constantly making moves, which fosters continuous instability.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    The dog with the longest leash will be the one to turn around and bite you back. The MLSE's fascination with Colangelo is astounding. After 7 years and an ample sample size, I think he's a lousy GM. If the franchise really wants a culture change, they should just get rid of BC. I believe holding on to AB7 for too long is enough to warrant letting him go. I prefer Stefanski to take over instead. Oh, for the haters of ES, he drafted Holiday (an all star). As for BC, he doesn't have any - maybe JV but then when that happens, I hope him and his starchy collar would be long gone.

    PS> The holdup at the board level is pretty telling though (re: his option). With no draft picks coming our way, there's not much for him to really do.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    The dog with the longest leash will be the one to turn around and bite you back. The MLSE's fascination with Colangelo is astounding. After 7 years and an ample sample size, I think he's a lousy GM. If the franchise really wants a culture change, they should just get rid of BC. I believe holding on to AB7 for too long is enough to warrant letting him go. I prefer Stefanski to take over instead. Oh, for the haters of ES, he drafted Holiday (an all star). As for BC, he doesn't have any - maybe JV but then when that happens, I hope him and his starchy collar would be long gone.

    PS> The holdup at the board level is pretty telling though (re: his option). With no draft picks coming our way, there's not much for him to really do.
    Seriously.

    However is the whole culture change propaganda a Colangelo talking point? I think it is which is hilarious because, as the GM, he was the person at the top making the decisions for the last 7 years that has put Toronto in the situation it currently resides.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Seriously.

    However is the whole culture change propaganda a Colangelo talking point? I think it is which is hilarious because, as the GM, he was the person at the top making the decisions for the last 7 years that has put Toronto in the situation it currently resides.
    I believe that many people "in the know" agree that the role of the person putting the team together is the most important in any sports franchise. It's not an accident that San Antonio, OKC, Boston, LA (now both) and others like the Atlanta Braves, Green Bay, etc are doing well year after year.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    It's tough to want him fired, because my gut tells me no GM with half a brain takes that job this offseason.

    That said, if ownership is willing to only fire him (as in, retain the rest of the management structure), and then put Stefanski at the top even in the interim for a year or two until it's more attractive to look for a new guy, I'd be ok with that.

    As much as I don't think BC has any clue what he's doing building a team...He makes moves all the time because he builds a team with no real strategy....I do think he has improved the general makeup of the organization. I don't want all that to fall apart just because they want to fire him.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's tough to want him fired, because my gut tells me no GM with half a brain takes that job this offseason.

    That said, if ownership is willing to only fire him (as in, retain the rest of the management structure), and then put Stefanski at the top even in the interim for a year or two until it's more attractive to look for a new guy, I'd be ok with that.

    As much as I don't think BC has any clue what he's doing building a team...He makes moves all the time because he builds a team with no real strategy....I do think he has improved the general makeup of the organization. I don't want all that to fall apart just because they want to fire him.
    Yeah, I like that: give Stefanski the reigns now, but I'd give him the directive of letting the current core the opportunity to succeed as assembled, and if they don't look like a solid playoff team by mid-season, then blow up the roster, move guys for expirings and picks/prospects, and aim for a high draft pick. This team should either be in the playoffs next (and not just sneaking in but a solid six seed or better), or a team drafting in the top 8. Barely missing or barely making the playoffs are the unacceptable outcomes.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    I dont get the Conclusion, "This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks" Because 7 years is not stability ? He's been the GM for 40% of the franchise's history ? which other GM can say that ?and we have been stable, steadily mediocre, the whole point is we dont want to be that anymore.

  17. #17
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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    I dont get the Conclusion, "This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks" Because 7 years is not stability ? He's been the GM for 40% of the franchise's history ? which other GM can say that ?and we have been stable, steadily mediocre, the whole point is we dont want to be that anymore.
    Have we been stable? Has the core ever stayed the same for 2 consecutive years? Only in the transition from Triano to Casey where there was the lockout as well.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Have we been stable? Has the core ever stayed the same for 2 consecutive years? Only in the transition from Triano to Casey where there was the lockout as well.
    And who chooses the core ? the same guy that's been there for 7 years, so if you keep him for another 7 what do you think we're gonna get, the same thing, steadily mediocre, if they pick up his option but dont extend him, what do you think is gonna happen between july 1st and the trade deadline ?

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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    And who chooses the core ? the same guy that's been there for 7 years, so if you keep him for another 7 what do you think we're gonna get, the same thing, steadily mediocre, if they pick up his option but dont extend him, what do you think is gonna happen between july 1st and the trade deadline ?
    I just meant that stability starts with the roster. If a GM can't put together a roster he thinks can compete for more than one season, he shouldn't be a GM. BC has never stuck to any plan or core of players...except Bargnani, who he has defended and stuck with for far too long. Sigh...what a travesty of a situation....

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I just meant that stability starts with the roster. If a GM can't put together a roster he thinks can compete for more than one season, he shouldn't be a GM. BC has never stuck to any plan or core of players...except Bargnani, who he has defended and stuck with for far too long. Sigh...what a travesty of a situation....
    I get what you're saying and agree but the author is campaining for stability in the office and coaching staff. I was pointing out we've had stability in the office we just cant have it anywhere else because he'll blame everyone else. its 2013 and its still Chris Bosh's Fault we're struggling. He never stopped to think that having a roster that relyied on one player was probably why he left in the first place.

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