View Poll Results: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

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Thread: HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

    From Stephen Brotherston, the beginning:

    As Toronto Raptors president and general manager Bryan Colangelo awaits a decision from Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment about picking up the option year on his contract, the local media has been generous with their advice on what his future should be.

    Toronto missed the playoffs for the fifth consecutive year during a season when 38 wins was enough to grab eighth place in the Eastern Conference. During the past seven seasons under Colangelo’s guidance, the team has made the postseason only twice and averaged just 34 wins. On the surface at least, the calls for Colangelo’s head on a platter seem to be justified, however, one needs to look at his entire body of work in Toronto before jumping to conclusions.
    ...... and the end:


    If Colangelo has proven anything over the past seven years, it is that he can make deals, even if many of the players acquired seem to get hurt soon after they arrive. Despite this, during the current rebuild, the talent level on the Raptors has improved and this team is poised to make a serious challenge at the postseason once again. Under the circumstances, the outright firing of Colangelo would make little sense. Colangelo has a strong board room and public relations presence and is an excellent choice to represent ownership with the NBA Board of Governors. If ownership believes Colangelo’s past moves entailed a level of risk that they are not comfortable with going forward, the better solution would be to give Stefanski a bigger say in future transactions. This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/should-rap...ryan-colangelo
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
    You mean, this isn't enough to sway you back to Colangelo's side:

    The big moves in the summer of 2007 were the signings of free agents Jason Kapono and Jamario Moon and a trade for Carlos Delfino.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    It's also hilarious that the guy's argument is basically that Toronto should keep him for stability, but the main part of his argument for why BC is good is that he's constantly making moves, which fosters continuous instability.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    The dog with the longest leash will be the one to turn around and bite you back. The MLSE's fascination with Colangelo is astounding. After 7 years and an ample sample size, I think he's a lousy GM. If the franchise really wants a culture change, they should just get rid of BC. I believe holding on to AB7 for too long is enough to warrant letting him go. I prefer Stefanski to take over instead. Oh, for the haters of ES, he drafted Holiday (an all star). As for BC, he doesn't have any - maybe JV but then when that happens, I hope him and his starchy collar would be long gone.

    PS> The holdup at the board level is pretty telling though (re: his option). With no draft picks coming our way, there's not much for him to really do.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    It's tough to want him fired, because my gut tells me no GM with half a brain takes that job this offseason.

    That said, if ownership is willing to only fire him (as in, retain the rest of the management structure), and then put Stefanski at the top even in the interim for a year or two until it's more attractive to look for a new guy, I'd be ok with that.

    As much as I don't think BC has any clue what he's doing building a team...He makes moves all the time because he builds a team with no real strategy....I do think he has improved the general makeup of the organization. I don't want all that to fall apart just because they want to fire him.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    The dog with the longest leash will be the one to turn around and bite you back. The MLSE's fascination with Colangelo is astounding. After 7 years and an ample sample size, I think he's a lousy GM. If the franchise really wants a culture change, they should just get rid of BC. I believe holding on to AB7 for too long is enough to warrant letting him go. I prefer Stefanski to take over instead. Oh, for the haters of ES, he drafted Holiday (an all star). As for BC, he doesn't have any - maybe JV but then when that happens, I hope him and his starchy collar would be long gone.

    PS> The holdup at the board level is pretty telling though (re: his option). With no draft picks coming our way, there's not much for him to really do.
    Seriously.

    However is the whole culture change propaganda a Colangelo talking point? I think it is which is hilarious because, as the GM, he was the person at the top making the decisions for the last 7 years that has put Toronto in the situation it currently resides.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Seriously.

    However is the whole culture change propaganda a Colangelo talking point? I think it is which is hilarious because, as the GM, he was the person at the top making the decisions for the last 7 years that has put Toronto in the situation it currently resides.
    I believe that many people "in the know" agree that the role of the person putting the team together is the most important in any sports franchise. It's not an accident that San Antonio, OKC, Boston, LA (now both) and others like the Atlanta Braves, Green Bay, etc are doing well year after year.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    I dont get the Conclusion, "This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks" Because 7 years is not stability ? He's been the GM for 40% of the franchise's history ? which other GM can say that ?and we have been stable, steadily mediocre, the whole point is we dont want to be that anymore.

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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    I dont get the Conclusion, "This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks" Because 7 years is not stability ? He's been the GM for 40% of the franchise's history ? which other GM can say that ?and we have been stable, steadily mediocre, the whole point is we dont want to be that anymore.
    Have we been stable? Has the core ever stayed the same for 2 consecutive years? Only in the transition from Triano to Casey where there was the lockout as well.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Have we been stable? Has the core ever stayed the same for 2 consecutive years? Only in the transition from Triano to Casey where there was the lockout as well.
    And who chooses the core ? the same guy that's been there for 7 years, so if you keep him for another 7 what do you think we're gonna get, the same thing, steadily mediocre, if they pick up his option but dont extend him, what do you think is gonna happen between july 1st and the trade deadline ?

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's tough to want him fired, because my gut tells me no GM with half a brain takes that job this offseason.

    That said, if ownership is willing to only fire him (as in, retain the rest of the management structure), and then put Stefanski at the top even in the interim for a year or two until it's more attractive to look for a new guy, I'd be ok with that.

    As much as I don't think BC has any clue what he's doing building a team...He makes moves all the time because he builds a team with no real strategy....I do think he has improved the general makeup of the organization. I don't want all that to fall apart just because they want to fire him.
    Yeah, I like that: give Stefanski the reigns now, but I'd give him the directive of letting the current core the opportunity to succeed as assembled, and if they don't look like a solid playoff team by mid-season, then blow up the roster, move guys for expirings and picks/prospects, and aim for a high draft pick. This team should either be in the playoffs next (and not just sneaking in but a solid six seed or better), or a team drafting in the top 8. Barely missing or barely making the playoffs are the unacceptable outcomes.

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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    And who chooses the core ? the same guy that's been there for 7 years, so if you keep him for another 7 what do you think we're gonna get, the same thing, steadily mediocre, if they pick up his option but dont extend him, what do you think is gonna happen between july 1st and the trade deadline ?
    I just meant that stability starts with the roster. If a GM can't put together a roster he thinks can compete for more than one season, he shouldn't be a GM. BC has never stuck to any plan or core of players...except Bargnani, who he has defended and stuck with for far too long. Sigh...what a travesty of a situation....

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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    I dont get the Conclusion, "This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; it’s time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks" Because 7 years is not stability ? He's been the GM for 40% of the franchise's history ? which other GM can say that ?and we have been stable, steadily mediocre, the whole point is we dont want to be that anymore.
    When have we been mediocre? We've missed the playoffs for 5 straight years....we're a a lottery team under collangelo OR a first round exit......we dont wanna suck anymore! Mediocre is a step up from where we are IMO!

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I just meant that stability starts with the roster. If a GM can't put together a roster he thinks can compete for more than one season, he shouldn't be a GM. BC has never stuck to any plan or core of players...except Bargnani, who he has defended and stuck with for far too long. Sigh...what a travesty of a situation....
    I get what you're saying and agree but the author is campaining for stability in the office and coaching staff. I was pointing out we've had stability in the office we just cant have it anywhere else because he'll blame everyone else. its 2013 and its still Chris Bosh's Fault we're struggling. He never stopped to think that having a roster that relyied on one player was probably why he left in the first place.

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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    I get what you're saying and agree but the author is campaining for stability in the office and coaching staff. I was pointing out we've had stability in the office we just cant have it anywhere else because he'll blame everyone else. its 2013 and its still Chris Bosh's Fault we're struggling. He never stopped to think that having a roster that relyied on one player was probably why he left in the first place.
    This is something that is at the core of why BC is an idiot. He screwed up the situation, just like Mitchell, who he should have just let walk, but he was too afraid of the impact on the franchise's image (I think). Just like he didn't seem sold on Mitchell as a coach, he didn't seem sold on Bosh as a franchise player. Yet not onlly did he keep him, he never even maximized his trade value when he had the chance, and again, it seemed to be mostly out of a fear of perception. BC simply has no foresight, which has to be a key quality in a good GM. He just takes shots in the dark and hopes to hit the bullseye, while also being afraid to make shakeups that come with PR risk.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 21st, 2013 at 02:04 PM.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    This is something that is at the core of why BC is an idiot. He screwed up the situation, just like Mitchell, who he should have just let walk, but he was too afraid of the impact on the franchise's image (I think). Just like he didn't seem sold on Mitchell as a coach, he didn't seem sold on Bosh as a franchise player. Yet not onlly did he keep him, he never even maximized his trade value when he had the chance, and again, it seemed to be mostly out of a fear of perception. BC simply has no foresight, which has to be a key quality in a good GM. He just takes shots in the dark and hopes to hit the bullseye, while also being afraid to make shakeups that come with PR risk.
    I like the comment about BC having no foresight. However, I don't think he just "takes shots in the dark". He obviously plans his moves with all sorts of metrics and complicated team-building philosophy, which dazzles corporate when delivered with all of his psycho-analysis b-ball philosophy speak.

    Fact is, BC doesn't have the acumen, or the old-school cojones to make the right call, and wrangle winning deals. He's fluff pimped up as Super-executive.

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    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    I like the comment about BC having no foresight. However, I don't think he just "takes shots in the dark". He obviously plans his moves with all sorts of metrics and complicated team-building philosophy, which dazzles corporate when delivered with all of his psycho-analysis b-ball philosophy speak.

    Fact is, BC doesn't have the acumen, or the old-school cojones to make the right call, and wrangle winning deals. He's fluff pimped up as Super-executive.
    I don't know..his moves seem to have a "plan" or "purpose"...but they are clumsy and obvious....

    -Team needs a C, makes a stupid trade sending Rasho and a 1st rd pick for JO. So traded a veteran starting C and a pick that turned into a young starting C (I know they wouldn't have taken Hibbert probably, but just saying), for a former all-star with a bad injury history.
    -Team needs a shooter (or at least that's the thought), he goes out and overpays for Jason Kapono.
    -Team needs a SF, he goes out and overpays for Turkoglu, who I don't know why any GM would think is a good fit next to Bosh and Bargnani. The team didn't need another pick and roll player who can't finish at the rim, they needed a defender and someone who could either shoot or slash very well.
    -Team needs a PG, his fallback option ends up being far better in many ways than his primary option, which was to go sign a near-to-retirement former MVP to a 3 year, 30 + million contract...I love Nash and think we probably would have had a better team this year with him, but it would not have been a very smart move for the franchise in terms of building a team going forward. Every summer there'd be questions about whether he would/should retire and is being paid too much. Again, though it wouldn't be as cancerous, it's a lot like the Turkoglu signing, in the sense that Nash doesn't fit with the identity Casey was building or what the team really needs (barely an upgrade over Jose at this point, with the same strengths/weaknesses). Lowry, while his season has been frustrating, was always a more sensible choice with the coach/roster, a better choice for financial flexibility and has a higher chance of being a move that contributes to a long-term core.

    *So I guess shots in the dark isn't the best analogy....It's more like he has horrible myopia and can only see the biggest, flashiest, most obvious thing to do, and that he just prays it works out. And if that fails, he goes to the next obvious move..

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    All I want to know is how can someone who chooses such good suits be such an idiot?
    "Duh! Winning"
    - Charlie Sheen

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    Quote hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    All I want to know is how can someone who chooses such good suits be such an idiot?
    Maybe he has a stylist?

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