View Poll Results: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

Voters
37. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    28 75.68%
  • No

    9 24.32%
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 71

Thread: HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Posts
    297
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
    I disagree. I don't think that this article was an endorsement, but it does suggest that there is little reason to fire him. Firing Colangelo now is reactionary and not looking to the future IMO. His ability to swing deals is better than anyone we have had in the past, that those transactions have failed to get us beyond the first round of the playoffs is not his fault. All of his moves have been highly touted at the time. Once the rebuild took place he has done exactly what he needed to do, including this year! He traded the draft pick, t get a high quality PG who helps this team now. Its not like we were going to use that pick on anyone who would approach Lowry's abilities. Like everyone said earlier this year, we HAD to miss the playoffs this year to get that 1st rnd pick out of here on an off-year draft. This is an ideal situation. We have talent, we will have picks again.

    The team is in a good position moving forward and now I want a GM who can make a deal to improve this team. BC is that guy.

    The last comment really resonates with me; this franchise NEEDS stability. It has to happen. I'm fine with this current group. Leave it alone MLSE.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Pele wrote: View Post
    I like the comment about BC having no foresight. However, I don't think he just "takes shots in the dark". He obviously plans his moves with all sorts of metrics and complicated team-building philosophy, which dazzles corporate when delivered with all of his psycho-analysis b-ball philosophy speak.

    Fact is, BC doesn't have the acumen, or the old-school cojones to make the right call, and wrangle winning deals. He's fluff pimped up as Super-executive.


    +1

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,662
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote c_bcm wrote: View Post
    I disagree. I don't think that this article was an endorsement, but it does suggest that there is little reason to fire him. Firing Colangelo now is reactionary and not looking to the future IMO. His ability to swing deals is better than anyone we have had in the past, that those transactions have failed to get us beyond the first round of the playoffs is not his fault. All of his moves have been highly touted at the time. Once the rebuild took place he has done exactly what he needed to do, including this year! He traded the draft pick, t get a high quality PG who helps this team now. Its not like we were going to use that pick on anyone who would approach Lowry's abilities. Like everyone said earlier this year, we HAD to miss the playoffs this year to get that 1st rnd pick out of here on an off-year draft. This is an ideal situation. We have talent, we will have picks again.

    The team is in a good position moving forward and now I want a GM who can make a deal to improve this team. BC is that guy.

    The last comment really resonates with me; this franchise NEEDS stability. It has to happen. I'm fine with this current group. Leave it alone MLSE.
    You should read Brotherston's Raptor chats on Mondays at HoopsWorld.com. It is essentially Matt and Leo/Jack talking pieces rehashed. There is not a single thought or idea that has not already been put out by the Raptors/MLSE. I don't mean to be disrespectful to Stephen Brotherston but whatever the Raptors/MLSE are selling, he is buying hand over fist of late. If the Raptors/MLSE really knew what they were doing, would we really be looking at the 5th consecutive year without a playoff berth and would this really have been the 7th best year in franchise history? This article was meant to be a "here is why Colangelo should stay" piece. Unfortunately, it only rehashes 7 years of errors with minimal successes with an end result of a 5 year playoff drought. In the quest for continuity the answer is not the person responsible for 7 years of upheaval.

    There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter imaginelino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    258
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Pick up the option and let him ride out his plan. After this year his plan would have moved into full circulation and judge him on the moves this summer and the performance next year. No sense in bringing a GM when he would already be hogtied because of committed salary and no wiggle room to make it his own team, without blowing it up completely which makes little sense in my opinion.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie Garbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Honestly, I would love to see a new GM come in, and I would love to see it happen this upcoming season. With a draft that's looking incredibly strong, and a team that's looking incredibly mediocre, it's definitely time for a change. BC is only going to make "win now" moves at this stage, and we're not a "win now" team.
    If we bring in a new guy I'm confident that he will assess the team and flip what he can for some long term assets. Lowry could become a first round pick for a team looking to take a step forward, Amir could be a crucial piece for a would-be contender.. I would love to have a GM who has the balls to admit that we're broken and that we need a drastic overhaul. That guy can't be BC.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,585
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    He needs to be fired. We've been "rebuilding" for around 5 years. Simple as that.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,654
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

    - He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.
    - He competed against nobody by signing Bargnani to an extension, then repeated the mistake with DeRozan.
    - He gave the head coaching reigns to an unproven/inexperienced coach in Triano, and then repeated the mistake with Casey.

    I'm going to guess that Colangelo doesn't magically figure out how to build a winner anytime soon. It'll be more of the same next year....and not a single (sane) person will be surprised.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    BC's option shouldn't be picked up. Can't argue with results, and the results are are that we've averaged less than 35 wins per season during his time here as GM. He's had more than enough time to rebuild twice now. That along with his refusal to move Bargnani is enough reason to let him go.

    Sadly, there has been no announcement of his option not having been picked up which might mean that they are planning to pick it up. There was no reason not to announce that MLSE is letting him go unless they plan on holding onto him.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,222
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Of course they should fire him. Why is this still a question anymore?

    I'm tired of hearing the same reasons for keeping him:

    He's a PR whiz! You know what else is good for PR? Winning.
    He's a "mover and shaker" in the basketball world! When has this ever actually worked to the advantage of Toronto? And don't say the Rudy Gay trade... Memphis was shopping him around to half the league but no one was willing to eat the salary
    The organization needs continuity! 7 years in and some people are still worried about pulling the rug out from underneath him? How long should he realistically get to produce even an average team? A decade?

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.
    Can you make that part of you go away?

    If we bring in someone else, you won't need to be curious about what that person does with Bargnani. He will be traded or amnestied. What we get in return for Bargnani will be the same -- Bargnani's last 7 years speak for themselves, there's no way to spin it any other way.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    856
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If MLSE had decided to go a different route and hire someone else two years ago, it would have made sense. Instead they chose to extend him and allow him to rebuild. When they did so, it was clear what was going to happen. After allowing him to rebuild so far, which was why he got an extension, it makes no sense to fire him. I'm not suggesting that he gets another extension but it only makes sense to pick up his option year. If the team still fails to at least make the play-offs, then don't extend him and start afresh. I know it's frustrating to wait another year but it's the only sensible thing to do IMO.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,682
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I've always been 50/50 on Colangelo, but once he gave DeMar that extension, it was it for me. DeMar is a nice guy, and wish him a lot of success, but there was absolutely no reason to give him an extension that early and for that value. It was mind boggling at the time, and actually quite embarrassing.

    Outside of that extension you have 5 years without playoffs; the mishandling of Bosh; over valued contracts; and no concrete vision (for example, he tanks hard one year only to go all in for playoffs the next season and fail).

    This guy had cap space, a perennial all-star on the roster, and a #1 pick. He has 2 playoff losses in 7 years to show for it and as a team 8th worst in win/loss percentage for the pass 7 years. He's mediocre at being mediocre. He has failed. He does not deserve another year.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Posts
    297
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

    - He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.
    - He competed against nobody by signing Bargnani to an extension, then repeated the mistake with DeRozan.
    - He gave the head coaching reigns to an unproven/inexperienced coach in Triano, and then repeated the mistake with Casey.

    I'm going to guess that Colangelo doesn't magically figure out how to build a winner anytime soon. It'll be more of the same next year....and not a single (sane) person will be surprised.
    Why isn't Bosh a franchise player? He's a top 20 player, there are 30 teams in the league. Is it the idea of "Franchise player" that needs revisiting? The old pattern of team-building is to get the best player on your team surrounded by players that complement them. But I think this falls apart when the supporting players don't complement each other as much as they complement the "franchise player". I would have to disagree with you on Bargs, I don't think he was ever labelled as a franchise player. He was certainly the best player on the team in 2011/2012, but its not like that tenure lasted long enough to try a build a team around him.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

    - He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.
    I actually think that the Bosh situation has a lot to do with luck. Every GM has to face the same sort of thing, it just depends on what falls into your lap at the time, and how much resources you have to work with.

    In the NBA, only 4-5 guys actually deserve the max contract. As in, a player who will eat up this much of your overall salary and will actually deliver. But inevitably there will be 10-15 guys who end up getting it, and still another 10-15 guys who think they deserve it and get pretty close to it. If you're in Camp B, then you're just one of the unlucky few who ended up with a guy, either through draft or trade or inherited when you got hired, that will get the max (no one will question it), but that player will never take you anywhere.

    Even if you know that player won't take you anywhere, it won't matter because he's taken such a huge chunk of your payroll that you have no other choice but to build around that player.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,483
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This team has enjoyed little continuity over its 18 year history; itís time for some stability in both the executive and coaching ranks.
    Late to the party but....

    They want continuity by keeping around a GM that changes players every time he gets a haircut? I bet anything that over the last 7 years we have had more players on our roster than any other team in the league, and I can't imagine it even being close.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    If MLSE had decided to go a different route and hire someone else two years ago, it would have made sense. Instead they chose to extend him and allow him to rebuild. When they did so, it was clear what was going to happen. After allowing him to rebuild so far, which was why he got an extension, it makes no sense to fire him. I'm not suggesting that he gets another extension but it only makes sense to pick up his option year. If the team still fails to at least make the play-offs, then don't extend him and start afresh. I know it's frustrating to wait another year but it's the only sensible thing to do IMO.
    I don't understand this perspective. Do you think Colangelo has developed a trojan horse virus, where he will activate the minute he gets fired, and when the next GM who is hired tries to check out our roster, the files will become corrupt and unreadable? Perhaps you think the payroll records, and all the statistics recorded by statisticians and SportsVU will suddenly become locked and only Colangelo has the key? And then they will have to call Colangelo and beg him to unlock the secrets on how to run a franchise properly?
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,483
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    In the NBA, only 4-5 guys actually deserve the max contract. As in, a player who will eat up this much of your overall salary and will actually deliver. But inevitably there will be 10-15 guys who end up getting it, and still another 10-15 guys who think they deserve it and get pretty close to it. If you're in Camp B, then you're just one of the unlucky few who ended up with a guy, either through draft or trade or inherited when you got hired, that will get the max (no one will question it), but that player will never take you anywhere.

    Even if you know that player won't take you anywhere, it won't matter because he's taken such a huge chunk of your payroll that you have no other choice but to build around that player.
    I disagree with this, lots of players (I'd say around 20-25 players) deserve max contracts because max contracts have a cap. Lebron probably deserves $30 mil a season but it's not allowed, so he gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 20 gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 16.5 gets 16.5 as well.

    Bosh deserved (and still does) max because again he's better than the amount that max contracts pay, he's just not one of the 4 guys in the league that can take you far in the playoffs without a great coach and great supporting staff. BC's failing wasn't in believing in Bosh, it was in not making the team good enough to allow him to win in the playoffs while he was here.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I disagree with this, lots of players (I'd say around 20-25 players) deserve max contracts because max contracts have a cap. Lebron probably deserves $30 mil a season but it's not allowed, so he gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 20 gets his 16.5 and the guy that deserves 16.5 gets 16.5 as well.

    Bosh deserved (and still does) max because again he's better than the amount that max contracts pay, he's just not one of the 4 guys in the league that can take you far in the playoffs without a great coach and great supporting staff. BC's failing wasn't in believing in Bosh, it was in not making the team good enough to allow him to win in the playoffs while he was here.
    I'm not sure if you realize that your opinion is exactly the same as mine.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,483
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure if you realize that your opinion is exactly the same as mine.
    The 2nd part yes, I just disagreed that Bosh is always called out as being not worth a max contract.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    762
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Of course they should fire him. Why is this still a question anymore?

    I'm tired of hearing the same reasons for keeping him:

    He's a PR whiz! You know what else is good for PR? Winning.
    He's a "mover and shaker" in the basketball world! When has this ever actually worked to the advantage of Toronto? And don't say the Rudy Gay trade... Memphis was shopping him around to half the league but no one was willing to eat the salary
    The organization needs continuity! 7 years in and some people are still worried about pulling the rug out from underneath him? How long should he realistically get to produce even an average team? A decade?
    please see above

    Why is this still a question?? Are we all effin losers in Toronto?? If so, we deserve BC. Can you imagine if BC was hired by LA or Boston, or even New York??? Matter of fact - If BC was the GM for any other team, HE would've been fired at least 4 years ago! I don't understand it..... Is it a Canadian thing?? Are we just too nice? Get this loser out of here.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •