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HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

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  • #46
    I posted a very similar poll post-draft, pre-lowry. I can't find it now because it got merged into a thread with a million different topics/replies.

    My poll included options like "fire him if we miss the playoffs", "fire him immediately", "don't fire him, playoffs or not", etc. I was completely astonished by the support fans here showed for colangelo during the lifecycle of that poll. Almost nobody wanted him fired then. Some said take action if we missed the playoffs, and the majority (if i remember correctly) said they supported the guy fully.

    So I am quite happy to see that the BC support has waned in these parts. I guess 5 straight lotteries is less acceptable than 4.

    Unfortunately, it's TOO FUCKING LATE! We're now hamstrung with 2 more years of a 10th place roster full of untradeable assets. We're too good to hit the draft jackpot, we're too crap to make the playoffs, we're too maxed out to sign an impact piece, and we don't have the assets to trade for improved talent (unless we sell on Ross/Val). Any GM brought into replace the idiot will essentially man a sinking ship until the 2016 draft.
    Last edited by NoBan; Mon Apr 22, 2013, 02:11 PM.

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    • #47
      NoBan wrote: View Post
      I posted a very similar poll post-draft, pre-lowry. I can't find it now because it got merged into a thread with a million different topics/replies.

      My poll included options like "fire him if we miss the playoffs", "fire him immediately", "don't fire him, playoffs or not", etc. I was completely astonished by the support fans here showed for colangelo during the lifecycle of that poll. Almost nobody wanted him fired then. Some said take action if we missed the playoffs, and the majority (if i remember correctly) said they supported the guy fully.

      So I am quite happy to see that the BC support has waned in these parts. I guess 5 straight lotteries is less acceptable than 4.

      Unfortunately, it's TOO FUCKING LATE! We're now hamstrung with 2 more years of a 10th place roster full of untradeable assets. We're too good to hit the draft jackpot, we're too crap to make the playoffs, we're too maxed out to sign an impact piece, and we don't have the assets to trade for improved talent (unless we sell on Ross/Val). Any GM brought into replace the idiot will essentially man a sinking ship until the 2016 draft.
      DeMar didn't get his extension yet.. that may have been my excuse for keeping him on board.

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      • #48
        As fun as it is to get on the "FIRE BC IMMEDIATELY!!!" bandwagon - and I would tend to agree Colangelo is not the GM Toronto can count on in the stage the Raptors are currently in, the hard part is searching for a replacement.

        ... Although, some of you might just throw up your hands and say, "Well just about anybody would be better than this garbage!!!" and you'd probably be right. Still, the Raptors don't need a less bad GM; they need an average to good one or we'll just be trashing the new GM in a few years.

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        • #49
          planetmars wrote: View Post
          DeMar didn't get his extension yet.. that may have been my excuse for keeping him on board.
          Which is sad because Demar deserves his raise.

          What's incredible funny is that Landry Fields makes 6 million per year, Primo Pastaboy makes 10-11 million per year and Kleiza makes 5 million.

          How can you question the fact that our 2nd best player makes 9.5 million??? This is what's ludicrous with MANY fans online. They're upset that BC wasted 20 million on players that don't/can't play and then get upset when our better players make $$$. I personally think DD would've gotten a bigger raise if BC didn't lock him up.

          Obviously i'm in the minority.

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          • #50
            I think the biggest issue fans have is regardless of whether you think DeRozan "deserves" $9.5 million/year, Colangelo was really bidding against only himself. If you can get away with paying a player, say, $7 million/year, why on earth would you pay him $9.5 million/year? Whether he's worth $7 million/year, $9.5 million/year or $15 million/year, it doesn't change that. Of course, granted, it's just speculation whether Demar would've taken less money, but I would think most signs point to it being a very reasonable guess.

            On a general side note, bad contracts do not justify bad contracts. Again, I'm not saying $9.5 million/year for DeRozan is bad, but Bargnani making $10 million/year wouldn't justify it if it were.

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            • #51
              special1 wrote: View Post
              Which is sad because Demar deserves his raise.

              What's incredible funny is that Landry Fields makes 6 million per year, Primo Pastaboy makes 10-11 million per year and Kleiza makes 5 million.

              How can you question the fact that our 2nd best player makes 9.5 million??? This is what's ludicrous with MANY fans online. They're upset that BC wasted 20 million on players that don't/can't play and then get upset when our better players make $$$. I personally think DD would've gotten a bigger raise if BC didn't lock him up.

              Obviously i'm in the minority.
              The amount of the raise is only part of the problem (and it's still a pretty hefty one).. my problem is that he bid against himself. DeMar was a restricted free agent and the team had his bird rights. Any team could offer him a contract and Bryan could match. DeMar in my opinion would have done better playing in a contract year then if he already had a fat juicy contract waiting for him. DeMar's stock would be worth higher around the league as well since he would have a rookie contract.

              The timing of the signing made no sense, especially after the three seasons we just had. Why give a guy a raise based on potential only? Shouldn't he prove it before he got the dough?

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              • #52
                Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                None of the above.

                I personally wold prefer not to do something AT ALL than to HAVE to leave it half done or incomplete. Same applies when I ask someone to do something for me. That person would appreciate if I allowed him/her to complete the task than being asked to stop half way.
                I know what you mean by what you're saying, but I'm not sure it applies to the Toronto Raptors. This isn't like where you have Albert Einstein writing out a mathematical proof and you don't want to interrupt his work. You're worried that if you replace him halfway, no matter how brilliant the next guy you bring in is, he might not be able to finish the work.



                In the example of the Toronto Raptors, there is no "b" option as seen above. There is only "a". You can bring in a chimpanzee and it will most likely do a better job at completing the task than Bryan Colangelo.
                your pal,
                ebrian

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                • #53
                  Chimp/Casey 2014

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                  • #54
                    Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                    Bosh I think is worth max money but not one a team can be built around. Miami(the way they're built) is the best example. If Bosh was on the present Raps. team along with Gay, it would be quite a team.
                    Maybe it's just me, but I don't think any player is worth max money UNLESS they can be built around as a franchise cornerstone. That's one of the factors that I believe separates a 'max' player from a 'good player who's well paid'.

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                    • #55
                      TRX wrote: View Post
                      As fun as it is to get on the "FIRE BC IMMEDIATELY!!!" bandwagon - and I would tend to agree Colangelo is not the GM Toronto can count on in the stage the Raptors are currently in, the hard part is searching for a replacement.

                      ... Although, some of you might just throw up your hands and say, "Well just about anybody would be better than this garbage!!!" and you'd probably be right. Still, the Raptors don't need a less bad GM; they need an average to good one or we'll just be trashing the new GM in a few years.
                      You have to be optimistic that MANY Gm's can't be worse than 5 straight lottery seasons.....EVEN IF...you have to fire them quickly! You won't get a stud GM while being afraid to get rid of your horrible GM. I'm not at all afraid of the future (new GM). I'm actually scared that BC will set this franchise back more than 3 years before he leaves!

                      I have nightmares that when he's done with us..... our situation will be soooo bad that no real GM will want to come here. I would be fine in handing the reigns to Stefanski for now UNTIL we can fine a permanent replacement. Who knows.....maybe Ed Stefanski can be that guy.

                      I'm currently on the "FIRE BC IMMEDIATELY!!!" bandwagon

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                      • #56
                        People voting to keep BC are like women in an abusive relationship, it's like they can't believe anyone else would want them so they stay with the scumbag because hey it could be worse.

                        We've missed the playoffs 5 years in a row and haven't drafted in the top 3 in 6 years.....it can't get worse.

                        I think that needs to be repeated
                        IT CAN'T GET WORSE!

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                        • #57
                          ebrian wrote: View Post
                          I know what you mean by what you're saying, but I'm not sure it applies to the Toronto Raptors. This isn't like where you have Albert Einstein writing out a mathematical proof and you don't want to interrupt his work. You're worried that if you replace him halfway, no matter how brilliant the next guy you bring in is, he might not be able to finish the work.



                          In the example of the Toronto Raptors, there is no "b" option as seen above. There is only "a". You can bring in a chimpanzee and it will most likely do a better job at completing the task than Bryan Colangelo.
                          Legally it does not apply to the Toronto Raptors or any body for that matter. Morally it does. It's not about being worried or afraid of replacing BC, it's about being fair. I don't know what was spoken between Peddie and BC when the extension was given but it's safe to assume that the following was MLSE's stand- if reasonable improvement in the 'rebuilding' was shown and it seemed like the team was on the verge of making the play-offs, his option would be picked up. I think the team could be a little better but where it stands is not bad and he deserves another year.

                          I have been a sports fan particularly of Toronto teams and I've been hearing "anybody can do a better job than JP, John Furgn Jr, Burke, Babcock and so on and so forth" for a song time. In fact I've said it myself at times. The truth though is that 'it's easier said than done'.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • #58
                            Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                            I have been a sports fan particularly of Toronto teams and I've been hearing "anybody can do a better job than JP, John Furgn Jr, Burke, Babcock and so on and so forth" for a song time. In fact I've said it myself at times. The truth though is that 'it's easier said than done'.
                            Worked well enough for the Leafs

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                            • #59
                              special1 wrote: View Post
                              You have to be optimistic that MANY Gm's can't be worse than 5 straight lottery seasons.....EVEN IF...you have to fire them quickly! You won't get a stud GM while being afraid to get rid of your horrible GM. I'm not at all afraid of the future (new GM). I'm actually scared that BC will set this franchise back more than 3 years before he leaves!

                              I have nightmares that when he's done with us..... our situation will be soooo bad that no real GM will want to come here. I would be fine in handing the reigns to Stefanski for now UNTIL we can fine a permanent replacement. Who knows.....maybe Ed Stefanski can be that guy.

                              I'm currently on the "FIRE BC IMMEDIATELY!!!" bandwagon
                              Just to be clear, I would love to see Colangelo gone as well. I just think you cannot hire just anybody to replace him. You really, really have to be diligent and find a GM that fits instead of settling for just anybody because "they cannot be worse than Colangelo". Seems like an obvious statement, I know, but I think a lot of fans and writers ask "Should Colangelo be fired?", answer yes then pat themselves on the back... but they forget to ask "Who should be hired next?".

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                              • #60
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                Maybe it's just me, but I don't think any player is worth max money UNLESS they can be built around as a franchise cornerstone. That's one of the factors that I believe separates a 'max' player from a 'good player who's well paid'.
                                In most cases, you're right but there are some players who are in between 'good players' and 'franchise players'. Unfortunately these guys command max money. Bosh, Amare, Gay are some that come to mind. From a GM's point of view, if there's one guy of the three named I'd have on my team even for max money, it's Bosh.
                                Attitude Is A Choice.

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