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HoopsWorld.com: Should the Raptors fire Bryan Colangelo?

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  • #16
    Dino4life wrote: View Post
    I get what you're saying and agree but the author is campaining for stability in the office and coaching staff. I was pointing out we've had stability in the office we just cant have it anywhere else because he'll blame everyone else. its 2013 and its still Chris Bosh's Fault we're struggling. He never stopped to think that having a roster that relyied on one player was probably why he left in the first place.
    This is something that is at the core of why BC is an idiot. He screwed up the situation, just like Mitchell, who he should have just let walk, but he was too afraid of the impact on the franchise's image (I think). Just like he didn't seem sold on Mitchell as a coach, he didn't seem sold on Bosh as a franchise player. Yet not onlly did he keep him, he never even maximized his trade value when he had the chance, and again, it seemed to be mostly out of a fear of perception. BC simply has no foresight, which has to be a key quality in a good GM. He just takes shots in the dark and hopes to hit the bullseye, while also being afraid to make shakeups that come with PR risk.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:04 PM.

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    • #17
      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
      This is something that is at the core of why BC is an idiot. He screwed up the situation, just like Mitchell, who he should have just let walk, but he was too afraid of the impact on the franchise's image (I think). Just like he didn't seem sold on Mitchell as a coach, he didn't seem sold on Bosh as a franchise player. Yet not onlly did he keep him, he never even maximized his trade value when he had the chance, and again, it seemed to be mostly out of a fear of perception. BC simply has no foresight, which has to be a key quality in a good GM. He just takes shots in the dark and hopes to hit the bullseye, while also being afraid to make shakeups that come with PR risk.
      I like the comment about BC having no foresight. However, I don't think he just "takes shots in the dark". He obviously plans his moves with all sorts of metrics and complicated team-building philosophy, which dazzles corporate when delivered with all of his psycho-analysis b-ball philosophy speak.

      Fact is, BC doesn't have the acumen, or the old-school cojones to make the right call, and wrangle winning deals. He's fluff pimped up as Super-executive.

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      • #18
        Pele wrote: View Post
        I like the comment about BC having no foresight. However, I don't think he just "takes shots in the dark". He obviously plans his moves with all sorts of metrics and complicated team-building philosophy, which dazzles corporate when delivered with all of his psycho-analysis b-ball philosophy speak.

        Fact is, BC doesn't have the acumen, or the old-school cojones to make the right call, and wrangle winning deals. He's fluff pimped up as Super-executive.
        I don't know..his moves seem to have a "plan" or "purpose"...but they are clumsy and obvious....

        -Team needs a C, makes a stupid trade sending Rasho and a 1st rd pick for JO. So traded a veteran starting C and a pick that turned into a young starting C (I know they wouldn't have taken Hibbert probably, but just saying), for a former all-star with a bad injury history.
        -Team needs a shooter (or at least that's the thought), he goes out and overpays for Jason Kapono.
        -Team needs a SF, he goes out and overpays for Turkoglu, who I don't know why any GM would think is a good fit next to Bosh and Bargnani. The team didn't need another pick and roll player who can't finish at the rim, they needed a defender and someone who could either shoot or slash very well.
        -Team needs a PG, his fallback option ends up being far better in many ways than his primary option, which was to go sign a near-to-retirement former MVP to a 3 year, 30 + million contract...I love Nash and think we probably would have had a better team this year with him, but it would not have been a very smart move for the franchise in terms of building a team going forward. Every summer there'd be questions about whether he would/should retire and is being paid too much. Again, though it wouldn't be as cancerous, it's a lot like the Turkoglu signing, in the sense that Nash doesn't fit with the identity Casey was building or what the team really needs (barely an upgrade over Jose at this point, with the same strengths/weaknesses). Lowry, while his season has been frustrating, was always a more sensible choice with the coach/roster, a better choice for financial flexibility and has a higher chance of being a move that contributes to a long-term core.

        *So I guess shots in the dark isn't the best analogy....It's more like he has horrible myopia and can only see the biggest, flashiest, most obvious thing to do, and that he just prays it works out. And if that fails, he goes to the next obvious move..

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        • #19
          All I want to know is how can someone who chooses such good suits be such an idiot?
          "Stay steamy"

          - Kobe

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          • #20
            hotfuzz wrote: View Post
            All I want to know is how can someone who chooses such good suits be such an idiot?
            Maybe he has a stylist?

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            • #21
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              If this article was suppose to be an endorsement, it failed. If anything it might have erased any single doubt remaining on what the Raptors should do.
              I disagree. I don't think that this article was an endorsement, but it does suggest that there is little reason to fire him. Firing Colangelo now is reactionary and not looking to the future IMO. His ability to swing deals is better than anyone we have had in the past, that those transactions have failed to get us beyond the first round of the playoffs is not his fault. All of his moves have been highly touted at the time. Once the rebuild took place he has done exactly what he needed to do, including this year! He traded the draft pick, t get a high quality PG who helps this team now. Its not like we were going to use that pick on anyone who would approach Lowry's abilities. Like everyone said earlier this year, we HAD to miss the playoffs this year to get that 1st rnd pick out of here on an off-year draft. This is an ideal situation. We have talent, we will have picks again.

              The team is in a good position moving forward and now I want a GM who can make a deal to improve this team. BC is that guy.

              The last comment really resonates with me; this franchise NEEDS stability. It has to happen. I'm fine with this current group. Leave it alone MLSE.
              Welp, that sucked.

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              • #22
                Pele wrote: View Post
                I like the comment about BC having no foresight. However, I don't think he just "takes shots in the dark". He obviously plans his moves with all sorts of metrics and complicated team-building philosophy, which dazzles corporate when delivered with all of his psycho-analysis b-ball philosophy speak.

                Fact is, BC doesn't have the acumen, or the old-school cojones to make the right call, and wrangle winning deals. He's fluff pimped up as Super-executive.


                +1

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                • #23
                  c_bcm wrote: View Post
                  I disagree. I don't think that this article was an endorsement, but it does suggest that there is little reason to fire him. Firing Colangelo now is reactionary and not looking to the future IMO. His ability to swing deals is better than anyone we have had in the past, that those transactions have failed to get us beyond the first round of the playoffs is not his fault. All of his moves have been highly touted at the time. Once the rebuild took place he has done exactly what he needed to do, including this year! He traded the draft pick, t get a high quality PG who helps this team now. Its not like we were going to use that pick on anyone who would approach Lowry's abilities. Like everyone said earlier this year, we HAD to miss the playoffs this year to get that 1st rnd pick out of here on an off-year draft. This is an ideal situation. We have talent, we will have picks again.

                  The team is in a good position moving forward and now I want a GM who can make a deal to improve this team. BC is that guy.

                  The last comment really resonates with me; this franchise NEEDS stability. It has to happen. I'm fine with this current group. Leave it alone MLSE.
                  You should read Brotherston's Raptor chats on Mondays at HoopsWorld.com. It is essentially Matt and Leo/Jack talking pieces rehashed. There is not a single thought or idea that has not already been put out by the Raptors/MLSE. I don't mean to be disrespectful to Stephen Brotherston but whatever the Raptors/MLSE are selling, he is buying hand over fist of late. If the Raptors/MLSE really knew what they were doing, would we really be looking at the 5th consecutive year without a playoff berth and would this really have been the 7th best year in franchise history? This article was meant to be a "here is why Colangelo should stay" piece. Unfortunately, it only rehashes 7 years of errors with minimal successes with an end result of a 5 year playoff drought. In the quest for continuity the answer is not the person responsible for 7 years of upheaval.

                  There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.

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                  • #24
                    Pick up the option and let him ride out his plan. After this year his plan would have moved into full circulation and judge him on the moves this summer and the performance next year. No sense in bringing a GM when he would already be hogtied because of committed salary and no wiggle room to make it his own team, without blowing it up completely which makes little sense in my opinion.

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                    • #25
                      Honestly, I would love to see a new GM come in, and I would love to see it happen this upcoming season. With a draft that's looking incredibly strong, and a team that's looking incredibly mediocre, it's definitely time for a change. BC is only going to make "win now" moves at this stage, and we're not a "win now" team.
                      If we bring in a new guy I'm confident that he will assess the team and flip what he can for some long term assets. Lowry could become a first round pick for a team looking to take a step forward, Amir could be a crucial piece for a would-be contender.. I would love to have a GM who has the balls to admit that we're broken and that we need a drastic overhaul. That guy can't be BC.

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                      • #26
                        He needs to be fired. We've been "rebuilding" for around 5 years. Simple as that.
                        Twitter - @thekid_it

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                        • #27
                          I'd be ok with Colangelo around for another year if he actually showed the ability to learn from his mistakes. But he doesn't.

                          - He incorrectly pegged Bosh as a franchise player to be built around, and then repeated the mistake with Bargnani.
                          - He competed against nobody by signing Bargnani to an extension, then repeated the mistake with DeRozan.
                          - He gave the head coaching reigns to an unproven/inexperienced coach in Triano, and then repeated the mistake with Casey.

                          I'm going to guess that Colangelo doesn't magically figure out how to build a winner anytime soon. It'll be more of the same next year....and not a single (sane) person will be surprised.

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                          • #28
                            BC's option shouldn't be picked up. Can't argue with results, and the results are are that we've averaged less than 35 wins per season during his time here as GM. He's had more than enough time to rebuild twice now. That along with his refusal to move Bargnani is enough reason to let him go.

                            Sadly, there has been no announcement of his option not having been picked up which might mean that they are planning to pick it up. There was no reason not to announce that MLSE is letting him go unless they plan on holding onto him.

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                            • #29
                              Of course they should fire him. Why is this still a question anymore?

                              I'm tired of hearing the same reasons for keeping him:

                              He's a PR whiz! You know what else is good for PR? Winning.
                              He's a "mover and shaker" in the basketball world! When has this ever actually worked to the advantage of Toronto? And don't say the Rudy Gay trade... Memphis was shopping him around to half the league but no one was willing to eat the salary
                              The organization needs continuity! 7 years in and some people are still worried about pulling the rug out from underneath him? How long should he realistically get to produce even an average team? A decade?

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                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                There is a part of me that does want BC to stick it out for one more year but for just one reason: I really am curious to see what he does with Bargnani and, if he actually trades him, what will he get in return. After fooling a good portion of the fan base for years - me included! and probably himself - I want to see how BC ends it all.
                                Can you make that part of you go away?

                                If we bring in someone else, you won't need to be curious about what that person does with Bargnani. He will be traded or amnestied. What we get in return for Bargnani will be the same -- Bargnani's last 7 years speak for themselves, there's no way to spin it any other way.
                                your pal,
                                ebrian

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