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Thread: What team's offensive package would most suit the Raptors?

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    Default What team's offensive package would most suit the Raptors?

    So Casey saying that our offensive package was built to be similar to what Dallas had around Nowitzki isn't exactly news. We all know what a mistake this was. However, with our new, non-Bargnani core, obviously that offensive package makes even less sense. I am hopeful that the isolation-intensive offense we saw late in the season was simply Casey scrambling to give his guys something easy to learn, and that given an offseason and training camp, he'll put together something more sophisticated (or bring in someone who can). However, it also seems realistic that the best he can do as a non-offense guy is just ripping off another team's schemes.

    Let's say, hypothetically, that our core stays the same going into next season and Casey remains HC. And let's say Casey was looking to copy an offensive package from another NBA team. What (current or past) team's offensive schemes do you think would most suit the Raptors? I'm asking this because for me it's a bit of a head-scratcher. I can't really think of another team's offense that would make perfect sense for the Raptors, although admittedly I don't watch a lot of non-Raptors NBA other than during the playoffs. Any suggestions?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I beleive he said the team is very much like Indiana, so there's my answer.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Indy.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Assuming JV continues to develop in the post, I like a lot of the high/low action Memphis runs with Gasol and Randolph, except in Toronto the roles would be reversed with Val in the low block and Amir in the high post. The Nets also do a lot of stuff with Lopez that Toronto can try and duplicate with Val.

    I love Denver's ball movement which plays into the strengths of their wings. Honestly, I'm not sure what you do to get the most out of Derozan and Gay. The problem, in particular with Derozan, is that he is not a playmaker at all. Gay tries but he can't pass in traffic. That's been a problem of his for years.

    What I don't like is all the ISO stuff and the dependency on mid-range shots. Whatever is done, these issues need to be remedied.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Denver and their constant fastbreaking. We definitely have a team capable of doing that. We'd run teams out of the building, especially in the Eastern conference.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Denver and their constant fastbreaking. We definitely have a team capable of doing that. We'd run teams out of the building, especially in the Eastern conference.
    totally agreed. no reason why we can't be as speedy as denver. even our 'vet' AA is a speedy devil.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Not sure if the Raptors are suited for it but what I would love to see is San Antonio.

    Similarities:

    Penetrating, drive and kick PG - Parker/Lowry

    Low post presence - Duncan/JV (long way to go for JV to reach Duncan, don't kill me, but showing promise)

    Athletic wings - Leonard/Gay, Green/DeRozan

    Depth in bigs - Splitter, Blair, Diaw, Bonner/Amir, Acy, Gray, Raps need another big (and this is a stretch)


    Problems:

    Raptors don't have another creator like Manu.

    Raptors don't have 3 point shooters. The corner three is what the Spurs thrive on but I am optimistic Fields can return to form, Ross can become more consistent, Gay can get back to pre-shoulder injury, and DeRozan can expand his game.... sadly the optimism is likely misplaced.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Houston is a good example as well. They don't have that post presence, but their offense is built around generating as many shots around the rim (and ft's) and as many threepointers as possible: suck em in the paint and lure em out. You need penetrators and threepointshooters and ball movement. A post presence will help, but you need a passing big man. 'Modern' offenses are more and more built around creating as many shots at the rim or from the threepoint line as possible (combined with quickness to go for early chances in transition when the defense isn't set). If you don't have that, you will have great trouble being an effective offensive nba team.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Rockets has great sets, watching the game atm, they're working for them really well and it's thing of a beauty to watch them.
    Edit: Thinking alike, posted before you posted it ;D
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    Raptors Republic Rookie feet85's Avatar
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    The Bucks, we have a duo that are willing to duplicate brandon and monta and chuck up 50 shots a game heck we even have bench players that do that night in and night out (aa and JL3)

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    DC wants us to be like Indiana's defensive capability and offensive ability.

    We're more like an Atlanta, says Josh Lewenberg and I

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    An offense where the ball is constantly being moved around and where players are never seen just standing around (except on ISO) setting multiple off and on-ball screens, doing cuts to the ball and basket. So basically high school basketball.

    I'd like to see them implement a fast-pace system constantly looking for fast breaks which I think would greatly benefit the players on our roster -especially Lowry, that guy plays basketball like a headless chicken- This will not happen with Casey as our coach.

    So to answer your question, Denver would be a great team to emulate.

    P.S. - When D'Antoni gets fired in two weeks, I think hiring him as our head coach would be fucking fantastic.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Sig wrote: View Post
    An offense where the ball is constantly being moved around and where players are never seen just standing around (except on ISO) setting multiple off and on-ball screens, doing cuts to the ball and basket. So basically high school basketball.

    I'd like to see them implement a fast-pace system constantly looking for fast breaks which I think would greatly benefit the players on our roster -especially Lowry, that guy plays basketball like a headless chicken- This will not happen with Casey as our coach.

    So to answer your question, Denver would be a great team to emulate.

    P.S. - When D'Antoni gets fired in two weeks, I think hiring him as our head coach would be fucking fantastic.
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    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    I like what people have been saying about Indy, but I admire them more for their defense. Their O relies heavily on their bigs around the bucket, mainly West...Toronto does not (yet) have much to compare to the likes of David West, or the sheer size of Hibbert. Only comparable i see on each frontline is Amir/Psycho T.

    I like what someone said about Denver--love the way they run the floor, one of my league pass (and 2K) favs since George Karl took over. Very comparable as far as athleticism and quickness goes

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Assuming JV continues to develop in the post, I like a lot of the high/low action Memphis runs with Gasol and Randolph, except in Toronto the roles would be reversed with Val in the low block and Amir in the high post. The Nets also do a lot of stuff with Lopez that Toronto can try and duplicate with Val.

    I love Denver's ball movement which plays into the strengths of their wings. Honestly, I'm not sure what you do to get the most out of Derozan and Gay. The problem, in particular with Derozan, is that he is not a playmaker at all. Gay tries but he can't pass in traffic. That's been a problem of his for years.

    What I don't like is all the ISO stuff and the dependency on mid-range shots. Whatever is done, these issues need to be remedied.
    Agree with the last part there, enjoyed watching the 10 games previous to the Rudy trade than the last 30. Need to clamp down the defense alot so DD and RG can get out on the break, that's where they are best. In the half court, you're right, something needs to be done on D Casey's part to combat this -- more screen options/backdoor/high-low action? I'm sure we'll see less iso stuff next year, not a winning formula

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    Initially I was thinking a system similar to the Billups Pistons. What Coach Karl has done in Denver would be interesting to look at too.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this a lot. And I really think Toronto's talent does not align well enough with any one team to simply copy their offensive package.
    -I also don't get the Indy comparisons. Completely different rosters with nothing in common beyond similarities between George and Gay.
    -I also don't think the Nuggets model really makes sense. They don't have a big like the kind JV will turn out to be. Though the rest of the roster fits somewhat well.
    -Nor does a team like San Antonio, where the skills don't align well enough.

    What I would like to see.....

    Better transition offense. This is obviously something we all want given the athletes on this team. This is the one area where they simply have to be better, no excuses. Roster-wise they may not be a perfect match for Denver, Miami or LAC, but t hey have similarities to all. They have athletic bigs, like Denver or LAC, a tough-minded quick PG (always thought Lowry's ceiling was a poor man's Chris Paul), and wings who are big and athletic like Denver or Miami. Everyone on this team can run and finish. This starts with D, and I fully expect it to be better next season with Casey still around.

    Halfcourt is the big problem. I can't see any similarities that make me want to copy a team. I mean, I'd like to incorporate elements of a better offensive team...Indiana is not. Some thoughts here:

    -If JV improves his passing with the rest of his game, and the team gets another solid post-up big, I would love to see some Princeton-like elements incorporated, especially when Lowry is off the floor (but not necessarily exclusively). Admittedly we want better shooters than we have, but we have to hope for some improvement, and it's a system which is great for off-the-ball motion to free guys up for easy shots. Any offense where the backdoor pass is the bread and butter, with a roster having Gay, Fields, Ross and Demar, should make sense.

    -With Lowry on the floor....actually this is hard to gauge. The last month or so he played much better as a PG. As long as the amount of isos go down, I'm ok with a mix of things. The p'n'r and off-the-ball sets the team runs aren't bad. Toronto isn't an awful offensive team, production-wise. They just have an uninspired system.

    -I'd like to see some of those off-the-ball plays used to open up shots for the wings cut down a bit. I think they lead to isos by default. The team takes 15 seconds to run the play, it frees up some wing, but then if they don't take the shot right away, they ease into an iso with the shotclock winding down. These are horrible plays that need to be cut down, or modified so they don't take too long, and/or have immediate secondary options so the ball doesn't always freeze for an iso.

    -I'd like to see those plays diminished in favor of mixing in some Princeton like elements, and a lot more drive and kicks. Basically anything where the offense isn't initiated by an iso on the wing. I think the p'n'r the team runs is pretty good.

    -Disclaimer: isos are still going to happen a fair amount with Gay and Demar...just have to minimize them as bad plays. An offense heavy on p'n'r', drive and kick, and Princeton-like elements, I think will get everyone involved and maximize skill sets.

    Really, I felt like watching the team in the halfcourt was either a p'n'r, or one of those plays full of off-ball screens to free up a wing for a shot or other opportunity. Like 50/50. It makes things too easy on teh D. You could see the difference JV's emergence made as it forced the D to play him and worry about him, and suddenly everything was much more open on the wings. So yeah, putting the ball in the big's hands for some plays, where I would like Princeton style motion, and having more opportunities for Lowry to penetrate (both with and without screens) should really open things up for everybody.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Apr 25th, 2013 at 08:19 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    My first choice was Indy, but I'm just repeating what Casey said about having similar personnel. If I had to chose a team of my own I would say the Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks. Our bigs will keep us in games with solid defense and it will be up to our wings to win or lose games for us. I suspect that means we would have a similar ceiling as that particular Hawks team did as well.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    My first choice was Indy, but I'm just repeating what Casey said about having similar personnel. If I had to chose a team of my own I would say the Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks. Our bigs will keep us in games with solid defense and it will be up to our wings to win or lose games for us. I suspect that means we would have a similar ceiling as that particular Hawks team did as well.
    What we ran this year was basically the Hawks offense, especially on a bad night, which was horrible btw. They won with transition scoring. If you forced them to play halfcourt, they struggled immensely. Frankly the Raps offense was even better this year, and had even more motion, than those Hawks teams had.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    I don't see how this team can emulate Indy. They have 2 low post scorers while we might have 1, if JV can develop more. David West's post up game is something the Raps can't come close to emulating. Our rosters are just too different for that to really work.

    Same with San Antonio. We don't have the post scoring or the outside shooting, which is basically most of what the Spurs do on offence (with Parker/Manu driving to kick out to the 3).

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