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Thread: Mackenzie on Raptors: DeRozan's losing battle

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Default Mackenzie on Raptors: DeRozan's losing battle

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...losing-battle/

    ďI swear, I promise you, I donít even think about it. Sometimes teammates joke around with me, but I donít remember until they joke around with it. I really play this game for the love of the game. Itís just exciting to me to go out and play basketball in front of thousands of people at the highest level in the world. I really honestly donít think about it. Iím thankful for it. Iím happy to be here for another four years because I want to be the guy who stuck here through the tough times.Ē

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    That's kind of a weird quote to include from the article (which is pretty good, I recommend everyone reads it). I didn't even understand what he was talking about since you didn't include any context (he's discussing his contract extension in that quote).

    I'd have included this quote:

    “One thing about next season, I know for a fact we’ll be in the playoffs,” he said. “No question. I’ve been saying I hope, but we’re going to make it. We’ve got the talent to do it.”

    Asked if that was a guarantee he wants to stamp his name beside, he nodded emphatically.

    “I’m dedicating my summer to that. Period.”
    Anyways, not sure what kind of discussion you were trying to get going with the quote you included, but thanks for the link to the article. Nice to hear more about how loyal DD is to Toronto and how he goes into the gym late night to work on his 3 ball.

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    Great article - terrible headline.

    It's hard not to like DeRozan for his approach to the game, and his hard work. I get a little frustrated with some fans who keep saying that DD has hit his ceiling and doesn't have much room to grow as a player. If he continues to work hard and develops a bona fide 3-pt shot, and continues to work on his handles and moves, he is going to become an increasingly valuable player.

    He's class all the way.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    DD All Day, the man is 24 still improving, hard working, and wants to be here. i dont get why people would want to trade him when there's still bigger holes to fill.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    If DeMar can shoot 36% from three, consistently fill the boxscore with more than points, and become average on defense.... well, he'd probably be my favourite Raptor of all time.

    It is hard not to like the guy. I do believe he is sincere when he speaks about Toronto which is more than I can say for most other athletes when talking about the city they play for.... I'm a cynical guy, what can I say?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If DeMar can shoot 36% from three, consistently fill the boxscore with more than points, and become average on defense.... well, he'd probably be my favourite Raptor of all time.

    It is hard not to like the guy. I do believe he is sincere when he speaks about Toronto which is more than I can say for most other athletes when talking about the city they play for.... I'm a cynical guy, what can I say?
    That's one of the wonders of our time. We want everybody to see the 'right' thing all the time. We give plenty of media-training to learn them to say what we want to hear. And we certainly don't want them to be honest all the time. But because of it we can't believe anything we hear and we get cynical because so many times what we wanted to hear and what was told us because we wanted it to be said, isn't the truth and we know it.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    That's one of the wonders of our time. We want everybody to see the 'right' thing all the time. We give plenty of media-training to learn them to say what we want to hear. And we certainly don't want them to be honest all the time. But because of it we can't believe anything we hear and we get cynical because so many times what we wanted to hear and what was told us because we wanted it to be said, isn't the truth and we know it.
    How did this conversation become about Colangelo?

    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    How did this conversation become about Colangelo?

    I always have to think about him with this stuff; I did have him in mind...

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    That's one of the wonders of our time. We want everybody to see the 'right' thing all the time. We give plenty of media-training to learn them to say what we want to hear. And we certainly don't want them to be honest all the time. But because of it we can't believe anything we hear and we get cynical because so many times what we wanted to hear and what was told us because we wanted it to be said, isn't the truth and we know it.
    this, you have to be pretty stupid to not realize your annual salary just tripled. It's plain to me he is bullshiting.
    Last edited by akashsingh; Wed Apr 24th, 2013 at 07:57 PM.

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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    this, you have to be pretty stupid to not realize your annual salary just tripled. It's plain to me he is bullshiting.
    Ahh I'm not so sure. I mean, he'd already made like 12 mil or whatever off of his rookie contract. Anything after that won't make any real difference to his day to day life. If anything, it'll just make things more complicated. More money more problems, as they say.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    this, you have to be pretty stupid to not realize your annual salary just tripled. It's plain to me he is bullshiting.
    it hasnt tripled yet, his pay checks will triple next season

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    That's one of the wonders of our time. We want everybody to see the 'right' thing all the time. We give plenty of media-training to learn them to say what we want to hear. And we certainly don't want them to be honest all the time. But because of it we can't believe anything we hear and we get cynical because so many times what we wanted to hear and what was told us because we wanted it to be said, isn't the truth and we know it.
    Fans are all for players telling the 100% truth... if it lines up exactly with what they want to hear.

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    so much respect for his loyalty.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    DeMar is a G. what a good guy, Is he still in Toronto right now anyone know? he said he'd be going with Payton asap when season ended.

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    DD starting the off season the right way.

    What worries me is the comment of young players getting use to losing.


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    Much respect to DD and his loyalty to toronto. But if we can trade DD for a really good 4 or trade him and then sign a good 4 during FA, I'd do it within a heartbeat. As much as I like him, he's not going to be an all star caliber player. He's a hard worker but he doesn't have that intensity or confidence you see guys like wade have, some people are just born with it. If wade's an unfair comparison, then look at players like Paul George and Kemba. They stay aggressive and attack, whereas we've seen DD become passive and sometimes lost when calls don't go his way or if there's a real physical defender on him.

    We can put Fields in at the 2 spot and we'll be fine. Fields might not be as good offensively (who knows, he might regain the 3pt stroke he had in his rookie year) but he makes up for it in ball IQ, playmaking, rebounding and defense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Pong wrote: View Post
    Much respect to DD and his loyalty to toronto. But if we can trade DD for a really good 4 or trade him and then sign a good 4 during FA, I'd do it within a heartbeat. As much as I like him, he's not going to be an all star caliber player. He's a hard worker but he doesn't have that intensity or confidence you see guys like wade have, some people are just born with it. If wade's an unfair comparison, then look at players like Paul George and Kemba. They stay aggressive and attack, whereas we've seen DD become passive and sometimes lost when calls don't go his way or if there's a real physical defender on him.

    We can put Fields in at the 2 spot and we'll be fine. Fields might not be as good offensively (who knows, he might regain the 3pt stroke he had in his rookie year) but he makes up for it in ball IQ, playmaking, rebounding and defense.
    I agree DD probably doesn't have all star appearances in his future, but starting Fields is a massive downgrade at SG, barring a shooting stroke miracle over the summer. We definitely wouldn't be fine, as you suggest. We'd be worse, a lot worse. If DD goes we have to bring in a new starting SG because no one else on the roster is good enough right now (maybe Ross in a few years).

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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I agree DD probably doesn't have all star appearances in his future, but starting Fields is a massive downgrade at SG, barring a shooting stroke miracle over the summer. We definitely wouldn't be fine, as you suggest. We'd be worse, a lot worse. If DD goes we have to bring in a new starting SG because no one else on the roster is good enough right now (maybe Ross in a few years).
    But the thing is I'm saying having Fields at the starting 2 will be fine if we are putting in a really good 4 in return for losing DD. That way we'll finally have a balanced inside-out offense as opposed to wing dominated offense. Gay wouldn't have to carry the offense every night either.

    Fields isn't a massive downgrade from DD because he is a better rebounder, defender and playmaker than DD. Sure Fields might not put up the same amount of points as him, but we have lowry, JV, gay and our hypothetical 4 to make up for it. In his rookie year, Fields had 49% FG% and 39% 3PT%. Not saying he'll regain that same touch, but now that he's healthy there's hope that he can improve his horrendous percentages from this and last year.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Pong wrote: View Post
    But the thing is I'm saying having Fields at the starting 2 will be fine if we are putting in a really good 4 in return for losing DD. That way we'll finally have a balanced inside-out offense as opposed to wing dominated offense. Gay wouldn't have to carry the offense every night either.

    Fields isn't a massive downgrade from DD because he is a better rebounder, defender and playmaker than DD. Sure Fields might not put up the same amount of points as him, but we have lowry, JV, gay and our hypothetical 4 to make up for it. In his rookie year, Fields had 49% FG% and 39% 3PT%. Not saying he'll regain that same touch, but now that he's healthy there's hope that he can improve his horrendous percentages from this and last year.
    I agree with you.

    In addition to a more offensive-minded starting PF and an improved Valanciunas, I also think that Lowry could be relied upon to score more, which would allow him to play more to his natural strengths. That's 3 players able to pickup the scoring that will be lost with DeRozan, without even relying on a healthy/improved Fields to contribute more himself.

    Furthermore, using an upgraded PF to draw double-teams and begin ball movement - whether to a cutter, to a guy outside for an open 3 or to a guy outside to start swinging the ball around the perimeter - can only help this otherwise stagnant/iso-oriented offense. Better ball movement will open the court for dribble-penetration (Gay/Lowry) for baskets and/or drive-and-kicks, more open looks (both 3pt shots and from guys being lost as a result of defenses rotating).

    Nobody is looking to trade away DeRozan, or dump DeRozan, or giveup on DeRozan... IF DeRozan were to be traded, every scenario I've seen mentioned is to land a stud starting PF (ie: Love, Millsap, possibly Gasol, or even JSmoove). Using a good young player to land a young all-star is all about asset/roster management; trading from strength/depth (wings) to address a weakness (starting PF, while Johnson becoming 3rd big would greatly improve 2nd unit too, so win-win).

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree with you.

    In addition to a more offensive-minded starting PF and an improved Valanciunas, I also think that Lowry could be relied upon to score more, which would allow him to play more to his natural strengths. That's 3 players able to pickup the scoring that will be lost with DeRozan, without even relying on a healthy/improved Fields to contribute more himself.

    Furthermore, using an upgraded PF to draw double-teams and begin ball movement - whether to a cutter, to a guy outside for an open 3 or to a guy outside to start swinging the ball around the perimeter - can only help this otherwise stagnant/iso-oriented offense. Better ball movement will open the court for dribble-penetration (Gay/Lowry) for baskets and/or drive-and-kicks, more open looks (both 3pt shots and from guys being lost as a result of defenses rotating).

    Nobody is looking to trade away DeRozan, or dump DeRozan, or giveup on DeRozan... IF DeRozan were to be traded, every scenario I've seen mentioned is to land a stud starting PF (ie: Love, Millsap, possibly Gasol, or even JSmoove). Using a good young player to land a young all-star is all about asset/roster management; trading from strength/depth (wings) to address a weakness (starting PF, while Johnson becoming 3rd big would greatly improve 2nd unit too, so win-win).
    Exactly. I'm not trashing derozan- he's been great on the raps, but if we can get a solid 4 in return we'll have a solid starting 5 capable of making more than just 7/8th seed. Derozan's close to his peak in value at this point. He's shown how well he can score and get to the line, AND at the same time display additional potential in developing a 3pt shot and some playmaking abilities. I'm not entirely sure how salaries will work out, but if we can trade derozan for 1st round pick(s) and then sign Millsap as a UFA we'd be set.

    Anyway sorry for going way off topic here lol

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