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  1. #21
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    no chance were giving up jv for dwight. if the lakers got a new future franchise player out of it i would lose it

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I never thought of this. With TL on board, this is a very realistic possibility. A trade may not be necessary as Dwight is a FA, unless a sign a trade helps get rid of Bargnani.
    Crazy talk. A trade is necessary because we don't have cap space, let alone enough cap space for a max contract. I really really really don't think Dwight Howard wants to come play for the Raptors. Let's stick to things with a 10% chance of happening like Phil Jackson coming in as team president.

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  4. #23
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    Do not want D12. He seems like a team killer. His sulky attitude and lack of drive doesn't overcome his talent.

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  6. #24
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    You could pull it off for Bargnani, Kleiza, filler and future picks. If you used JV you would still need to send them a big contract to do the math. I'm against it for a whole slew of reasons (no way they trade with Toronto and not demand DD), but, so many people were screaming for a post presence that I'm surprised so many people disagree with the concept of bringing him in.

  7. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie swingman's Avatar
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    Let's not talk about Dwight for now. I only just stopped laughing at Lakers sweep jokes.
    Anyway, my priorities:
    1) Fire BC-Pretty simple. I would keep Casey for another year, but BC has to go.
    2) Remove Bargs from the team, by any means-Hopefully this is a trade for someone like Ilyasova or a Hawes/Wright combo, but if he can't be traded, amnesty. I can live with Linas stealing money for another year. Plus, $10mil in cap space could find a suitable replacement, given Millsap, Landry, Brand and JJ Hickson are all FA's (Landry has a player option). And hey, this Amir kid put a good season together...
    3) Let AA and Pietrus walk, and ensure Ross sees more minutes. Before we talk trades, Raps must obey the 4th basketball commandment; "Thou shalt not trade a rookie who has not seen major minutes". He needs to see 6th man type minutes this year, gotta gauge this kid's ceiling.

  8. #26
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    Quote swingman wrote: View Post
    Let's not talk about Dwight for now. I only just stopped laughing at Lakers sweep jokes.
    Anyway, my priorities:
    1) Fire BC-Pretty simple. I would keep Casey for another year, but BC has to go.
    2) Remove Bargs from the team, by any means-Hopefully this is a trade for someone like Ilyasova or a Hawes/Wright combo, but if he can't be traded, amnesty. I can live with Linas stealing money for another year. Plus, $10mil in cap space could find a suitable replacement, given Millsap, Landry, Brand and JJ Hickson are all FA's (Landry has a player option). And hey, this Amir kid put a good season together...
    3) Let AA and Pietrus walk, and ensure Ross sees more minutes. Before we talk trades, Raps must obey the 4th basketball commandment; "Thou shalt not trade a rookie who has not seen major minutes". He needs to see 6th man type minutes this year, gotta gauge this kid's ceiling.
    Amnestying Bargnani won't free up any cap space unless it's combined with other salary-clearing trades, as we're currently well over the cap. Not saying amnestying might be the right option, just that if we do, the mid-level exception ($5 million) is where we'll need to find the money for any free agent replacement for him. Brand's the only one of those guys who will be well within our price range. Landry might be, if we spend the full MLE on him, but I think he probably either stays with GSW or gets an offer worth more than the full MLE.

    edit: my top 3 steps:

    1. Tell Casey and the analytics department that I want that little simulation of theirs made into a computer game that the players can play during every moment of the summer that they're not in the gym, until defensive positioning become completely ingrained. I know this sounds facetious, but I'm dead serious. I want them playing defense with skynet-like ruthlessness and efficiency by next season. I'm going to stake my GM career on embracing this sort of advanced analytics and technology.
    2. Trade Bargnani for versatile veteran backup PG or PF/C, and then use the MLE on whichever position isn't filled by the trade. Boozer and Gasol scenarios are both viable for me, but Gasol's preferable for how soon his contract comes off the books. Okafor would work, too, or some combination of smaller parts. Assuming a trade can be found for Bargnani, amnesty Kleiza.
    3. Let the current core roll into next season and give them a chance to sink or swim as a group. 30 games into the season, I'll make a decision to (A) blow up the current core and essentially tank the rest of the season for a high draft pick (blaming it on Colangelo, and saying how we need to focus on trading for and developing youth); or (B) let them continue if they're winning (and take credit for their success with the 'best trade is the one you don't make' line). If they're winning, I'll try to convince Gay and Lowry to take discount extensions on the argument that this is what they need to do if we're going to take the next step and build a winner around them.
    4. Assuming a winning scenario in step 3 above, aim long-term for 2015 (when contracts to Fields, Johnson, and potentially Bargnani's trade return such as Boozer all expire) as when we're going to add one remaining big piece (potentially at PF). 2015 is key because this is when New York, Miami, and Brooklyn will really feel the crunch of the new repeater rate provisions, and be forced to think hard about blowing up their cores. All moves made now should be made with consideration for their impact in 2015 and beyond.
    Last edited by octothorp; Mon Apr 29th, 2013 at 10:25 AM.

  9. #27
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    if we get a top 3 pick in this years draft (hopefully #1), I would try to facilitate a sign and trade with the atlanta hawks where they take bargnani,fields,and top 3 pick (approximately 20 mill in salary), and we get josh smith signed to max (clear overpay) and deshawn stevenson. (if we don't get top 3 pick,try to use derozan in sign and trade, but be prepared to amnesty bargs b/c derozan is not enough to warrant taking his bad contract)

    If the sign and trade (top 3 pick, bargs,fields) is succesful Derozan gets traded for a good shooting SG who doesn't have to be spectacular, just good enough to give ross time to develop, and Backup back to the bucket Big. (basically our bench)

    offer calderon like 6 million 2 year deal.

    Casey stays.
    No way josh smith deserves a max deal. And i don't think any GM will be stupid enough to do this. Every stat of his has basically regressed from last year, not to mention he's shooting 59% FT.

  10. #28
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    You could pull it off for Bargnani, Kleiza, filler and future picks. If you used JV you would still need to send them a big contract to do the math. I'm against it for a whole slew of reasons (no way they trade with Toronto and not demand DD), but, so many people were screaming for a post presence that I'm surprised so many people disagree with the concept of bringing him in.
    Are you suggesting Howard is a presence in the post? He's not very efficient in the post (he barely has anything resembling a post move). Most people here, who talk about a post presence, also want someone who can pass out of the post. Howard isn't good at passing.

  11. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I don't like the idea of any trade where we give up JV. My list of players I'd give him up for stands firmly at 2: LeBron James and Kevin Durant. Anyone else and I'd have doubts. Likely too many to make it worth it. I firmly believe JV could be the best 2-way C in the game during his prime. As someone who has followed a team whose best C, at least while with the Raptors, was a 6'9'' PF (Antonio Davis)...I'm so happy to have a legit 7 footer, who runs the floor, can score on the block, facing up and on the p'n'r, has an incredible motor, good leadership qualities, a high bball IQ, and solid defensive ability, all at a young age..It's the biggest luxury this team has ever had. I've said it before and I'll say it again, JV is the best prospect this team has had. He's a C with a game that fits both ends of the court, and just about any style of play the team wants to use. It hurts my brain to think of trading him.

  12. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Since we're pitching crazy ideas...
    1) Trade Lowry and DeMar to Sacramento in a sign and trade for Tyreke Evans and Marcus Thornton. My reason is that Tyreke is best with the ball in his hands as he showd in his rookie season when he played PG averaging a bit over 5 assitst per game. He's showing signs of returning to his old self this season and shot a personal best 47.8% from the field which is quite good for a guard imo. Marcus Thornton is a pretty good 3pt shooter, shooting 37% from beyond the arc this season and about 36.5% lifetime. He's not a great defender, but this deal is more about getting Tyreke, whom I think is going to have a break out year next season if healthy. Salaries would need to be matched up, so fillers would be required.

    2) Amnesty Kleiza

    3) Trade Barnani for Boozer and Nate Robinson. Not a huge Boozer fan, but that has more to do with his personality than his skills

    Tyreke Evans/Nate Robinson
    Thornton/T. Ross
    Gay/Fields
    Amir/Acy
    JV/Gray

  13. #31
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    In general terms:
    1. Resolve Bargnani situation - trade him
    2. Improve PF depth - either upgraded starter or solid backup
    3. Improve backup PG position - ideally a pass-first PG, to provide change-of-pace option to Lowry

    Assumptions:
    - Casey will be back, since his option was picked-up already
    - Kleiza will either walk away or be amnestied if his player option is picked-up
    - Gray will return after his player option is picked-up
    - Lucas will return after his team option is picked-up
    - Anderson, Pietrus and Telfair will walk as free agents


    In detailed terms:

    Option A
    - Bargnani & DeRozan & 1st round pick (either top-3 in 2013 or unprotected any year other than 2014, ideally) --> Minnesota for Love & Ridnour & Williams (#1, #2 & #3)
    - use portion/full MLE to sign veteran SF who can shoot 3's and defend, such as Mike Dunleavy or Dorell Wright

    Option B
    - Bargnani & 2014 2nd round pick (better of TOR/SAC) --> Minnesota for Ridnour & Williams (#1 & #3)
    - DeRozan --> Utah for Millsap (S&T) (#2)
    - use portion/full MLE to sign veteran SF who can shoot 3's and defend, such as Mike Dunleavy or Dorell Wright

    STARTERS
    C: Valanciunas
    PF: Love/Millsap
    SF: Gay
    SG: Fields
    PG: Lowry

    2ND UNIT
    C: Johnson
    PF: Williams
    SF: Dunleavy/Wright
    SG: Ross
    PG: Ridnour

    BENCH
    C: Gray
    PF: Acy
    PG: Lucas
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Apr 29th, 2013 at 11:26 AM.

  14. #32
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Crazy talk. A trade is necessary because we don't have cap space, let alone enough cap space for a max contract. I really really really don't think Dwight Howard wants to come play for the Raptors. Let's stick to things with a 10% chance of happening like Phil Jackson coming in as team president.
    Oh yes, sorry I didn't think of cap space. Normally, Howard wouldn't come to Toronto but I see a possibility now because TL is CEO. After all his ability to attract big names is one of the reasons he's hired.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  15. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I don't like the idea of any trade where we give up JV. My list of players I'd give him up for stands firmly at 2: LeBron James and Kevin Durant. Anyone else and I'd have doubts. Likely too many to make it worth it. I firmly believe JV could be the best 2-way C in the game during his prime. As someone who has followed a team whose best C, at least while with the Raptors, was a 6'9'' PF (Antonio Davis)...I'm so happy to have a legit 7 footer, who runs the floor, can score on the block, facing up and on the p'n'r, has an incredible motor, good leadership qualities, a high bball IQ, and solid defensive ability, all at a young age..It's the biggest luxury this team has ever had. I've said it before and I'll say it again, JV is the best prospect this team has had. He's a C with a game that fits both ends of the court, and just about any style of play the team wants to use. It hurts my brain to think of trading him.
    You would ONLY trade JV for either LeBron James or Kevin Durrant?

  16. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    seriously not much else to say Bargs just needs to be moved hes killing us just being here, that was proven this season...Addition by subtraction, I hope BC doesnt think hes more valuable than he is, I remember him saying you dont want to trade a guy like Bargnani for anything...which is true but you have to see the team plays better without him...

    "worst case scenario would be him attempting to keep Bargnani to play beside Rudy Gay as his *ahem "Dream Draft Duo" ugggghhhh!
    I don't think that he's killing us being here. He's just a non-factor. If we kept him, he would likely be 3rd big (behind JV and Amir). So I just don't see the point of keeping him around anymore. If we can get back 1 or 2 players and a 1st round pick, i'd take it without thinking twice. I'm not looking for a blockbuster deal here, just some sort of value. I would even take Turkeyglue + first rounder for Bargs, then waive 'glue and call it a day.

  17. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    1. Amnesty Bargnani assuming there is no deal available for him that fits a rebuild.

    2. Trade Gay/Demar/Fields/Kleiza - for anything that opens up cap space or draft picks or players still on rookie deals.

    3. Pick up Lowry's options, offer Lowry a 8 or 9 mil x 4 years extension. Doesn't take it, he's up to the highest bidder.


    4. Start Val/Amir/Ross next season with Acy getting 20+ mins, everthing else is filler or any rookies that trades were able to haul in

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  19. #36
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    1. Amnesty Bargnani assuming there is no deal available for him that fits a rebuild.

    2. Trade Gay/Demar/Fields/Kleiza - for anything that opens up cap space or draft picks or players still on rookie deals.

    3. Pick up Lowry's options, offer Lowry a 8 or 9 mil x 4 years extension. Doesn't take it, he's up to the highest bidder.


    4. Start Val/Amir/Ross next season with Acy getting 20+ mins, everthing else is filler or any rookies that trades were able to haul in
    Craiger is rebuilding!

  20. #37
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Craiger is rebuilding!
    I understand the rationale for rebuilding, but that just sound like blatant tanking, while hoping for one of two lucky things to happen:

    1. get lucky in the draft lottery and then draft a superstar, franchise-altering talent (ie: what people hope Wiggins will be)

    2. hope for another Harden type of deal to come around, then hope that the assets (ie: draft picks & rookies) are enough to entice the team to trade with you

    I just don't believe either option is a guaranteed, tried-and-true strategy for sustainable team-building. I'm also not saying that the current Raptors team is 'complete' or even 'near complete' by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that the Raptors do have a decent young/skilled core, that is a few shrewd moves away from becoming a strong playoff team. There seems to be a lot of unexplored 'gray area' between "keep the team as is" and "complete rebuild from scratch overnight".

  21. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I understand the rationale for rebuilding, but that just sound like blatant tanking, while hoping for one of two lucky things to happen:

    1. get lucky in the draft lottery and then draft a superstar, franchise-altering talent (ie: what people hope Wiggins will be)

    2. hope for another Harden type of deal to come around, then hope that the assets (ie: draft picks & rookies) are enough to entice the team to trade with you

    I just don't believe either option is a guaranteed, tried-and-true strategy for sustainable team-building. I'm also not saying that the current Raptors team is 'complete' or even 'near complete' by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that the Raptors do have a decent young/skilled core, that is a few shrewd moves away from becoming a strong playoff team. There seems to be a lot of unexplored 'gray area' between "keep the team as is" and "complete rebuild from scratch overnight".
    sigh......

    Craiger is rebuilding!
    Did I make it that obvious?

  22. #39
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    sigh......

    Did I make it that obvious?
    I was curious what your long-term play was. From what you posted (which is all we have to go on), it just seems like you're undoing all of BC's 'work', without any specifics of the actual rebuilding you would recommend (aside from "rookies" and "draft picks"). Hence my 2 assumptions, in place of an actual laid-out strategy (aside from acquiring as many assets as possible).

    I am fine with BC being fired and am not satisfied with this team as is, but am frustrated with all the posts that complain about how he's built this team, without any alternate plan being presented. For the most part, BC has built through the draft (ie: Bargnani, DeRozan, Davis, Valanciunas, Ross, Acy - 5 lottery picks in past 7 years), while taking advantage of opportunities to turn those assets into proven players (ie: Lowry & Gay trades). Without having more to go on, I just see a similar plan of collecting assets (young players and draft picks, either to play or use as trade bait), while just hoping they turn out to be more successful than all the lottery picks and trades made by BC over the past 7 years.

    I was just looking for clarification in case my assumptions were off... and it wasn't directly only at you, but just that sort of thinking in general (which is why I didn't reply to your original post).

  23. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I'm going tanking!

    1) Trade Bargnani to Charlotte for Ben Gordon
    2) Trade Derozan to Minnesota for Brandon Roy's corpse and Derrick Williams
    3) Trade Rudy Gay/Kleiza to Los Angeles for Pau Gasol (who we're going to buy out right after)
    4) Trade Kyle Lowry to Milwaukee for their 2014 first round pick


    2012-13 Roster

    JL3 (expiring)
    Ross
    Fields
    Amir
    JV

    Bench:
    Gordon (expiring)
    Gray (expiring)
    Acy
    D. Williams
    Veteran Minimum Player A
    Veteran Minimum Player B

    We're bad enough to be the worst team in the league in 2014 and we have Milwaukee's selection as well (likely somewhere in the 8-18 range). We've also kept our own second rounder in a deep draft. More importantly, we've suddenly escaped from salary cap hell with roughly $42 million coming off the books next summer (Gordon, Gasol, Gray, JL3, Roy). The only players under salary for 2014-15 are:

    JV
    Acy
    Ross
    Amir
    Fields
    D. Williams
    Wiggins/Parker/Randle (whoever the Raps get w/ their own pick)
    Milwaukee's 2014 1st rounder
    2014 2nd Rounder

    All of a sudden that's a pretty awesome young core. The team would also have $35 million plus in cap room to either a) take on a bad contract or two with the Raps getting a 2015 first rounder (or a good young player) as compensation for doing so or b) make your pitch to free agents who you actually want on your team to grow with the young nucleus.

    Let the kids take their lumps for one more season (while providing plenty of highlights along the way) and draft in the top 8 again in 2015. All of a sudden you're the Thunder of the East in only 2 years time from now... and you still have more cap space then you know what to do with!

    That was fun and not that difficult.
    Last edited by Fully; Tue Apr 30th, 2013 at 09:28 AM.

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