View Poll Results: JV or EK?

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  • Jonas Valanciunas

    29 67.44%
  • Enes Kanter

    1 2.33%
  • Fairly even

    2 4.65%
  • Only time will tell

    6 13.95%
  • Who cares? JV is a Raptor!

    5 11.63%
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Thread: Jonas Valanciunas or Enes Kanter? (Poll added)

  1. #61
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I was starting to think it might be possible but with Kahn traded, who knows.... like anyone knew before.

    I don't think I am thinking rationally that the Raptors could get Love but I just want it so bad the more I think about it.
    Please create a page long scenario on how we can acquire Kevin Love similar to your Nash in Toronto, and Rudy in Toronto thing. I mean, one came to fruition, and the other was incredibly close. Please, please, please.

    Like, seriously Matt, if you have the time, that would be awesome.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Like, seriously Matt, if you have the time, that would be awesome.
    I know you're being genuine here, but it's hard to read this sentence without sounding sarcastic for some reason.

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  4. #63
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Please create a page long scenario on how we can acquire Kevin Love similar to your Nash in Toronto, and Rudy in Toronto thing. I mean, one came to fruition, and the other was incredibly close. Please, please, please.

    Like, seriously Matt, if you have the time, that would be awesome.
    Lol - sorry. I truly believed the others. I do not have any faith in Love going to Toronto.

    I did put some trade scenarios in the love swish or miss thread

  5. #64
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Lol - sorry. I truly believed the others. I do not have any faith in Love going to Toronto.

    I did put some trade scenarios in the love swish or miss thread
    yeah, at this point it's just hoping circumstances fall into place so that he at least becomes available. As of now, the only rumours about Love have been about friction with management. No actual evidence of him leaving.

    That's why Rondo is the other situation to keep an eye on. The Celtics have a lot of uncertainty with 2 aged stars. Boston has a lot to decide this summer, like this:
    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...-Buyout-Pierce

  6. #65
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Lowry + Ross for Rondo?

    I freaking love Ross, but I might be tempted to pull this one!


    EDIT:

    Rondo
    Demar
    Rudy
    Amir
    Val

    Only thing that worries me a LOT is lack of 3pt threat.
    Last edited by enlightenment; Fri May 3rd, 2013 at 08:34 AM.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  7. #66
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Lowry + Ross for Rondo?

    I freaking love Ross, but I might be tempted to pull this one!


    EDIT:

    Rondo
    Demar
    Rudy
    Amir
    Val

    Only thing that worries me a LOT is lack of 3pt threat.
    Rondo has a few faults.. from what I've read he only seems to step up his game when the team is being broadcasted nation-wide, so how would he do in Canada when the team never gets on ESPN? He is not a scoring threat, and so you would play off him and that could mean he's a liability. Rondo has played with hall of famers around him. How would he do on a team with far less talent? Plus he tore his ACL, so is he going to be himself again?

    With all that said, I would still consider the trade though. But why would Boston do this? Once Garnett/Pierce retire, don't you think that they would want to build around Rondo who is young and has a good contract? If they don't get JV back for Rondo I could see Ainge slamming the phone down. Don't forget, Boston is in our division. It would take a lot to convince Ainge to trade Rondo to the Raptors.

  8. #67
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Without giving JV to Boston, and let's say Boston would be willing to trade Rondo to Toronto, how about this:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d3s586w

    The rumour was that Boston was trying to trade Pierce for Gay. We get Pierce and let him play one year before he retires. We get serious cap space back when he's gone and in the same time get Rondo for Lowry and Ross. Toronto only does this so they get Rondo. Boston only gives up Rondo if we take Pierce with him.

    It would be a huge gamble as Rondo could backfire.. however if it works out a core with Rondo/JV could be a beautiful thing.

    Although again, I don't think Boston would be willing to trade Rondo (or Pierce) to a division rival.

  9. #68
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Rondo has a few faults.. from what I've read he only seems to step up his game when the team is being broadcasted nation-wide, so how would he do in Canada when the team never gets on ESPN? He is not a scoring threat, and so you would play off him and that could mean he's a liability. Rondo has played with hall of famers around him. How would he do on a team with far less talent? Plus he tore his ACL, so is he going to be himself again?

    With all that said, I would still consider the trade though. But why would Boston do this? Once Garnett/Pierce retire, don't you think that they would want to build around Rondo who is young and has a good contract? If they don't get JV back for Rondo I could see Ainge slamming the phone down. Don't forget, Boston is in our division. It would take a lot to convince Ainge to trade Rondo to the Raptors.
    The question is, how the hell would they build on the fly around Rondo? If they don't struggle enough, they'll get late lottery picks. They don't have any good assets to trade beyond Rondo and Green (in terms of guys they can build a package around). It may be in their best interest, both short- and long- term, to start wiping the slate clean, and stocking young assets while "tanking".

    I mean, if KG retires and they buy out Pierce, are the Celtics a playoff team next year? Maybe, but likely not. And if they aren't, are they going to be bad enough to have high hopes of a top 3 pick? Also unlikely. But if they trade Rondo for Demar + 2 1st rd picks (for starters, with whatever else it takes to make things work), then they're looking at a solid young SG who's a good secondary player, one or many draft picks in the deepest draft in a decade, where either Wiggins or Parker could fit nicely next to DeMar, and where they may even draft a PG like Harrison.

    If the Celtics don't decide to blow it up, they have very few avenues to improve their team around Rondo, and are looking at being a very mediocre team, struggling to build a winner again. I don't know. Honestly, speaking objectively, I don't think maintaining a Rondo-led team is a very good idea if Pierce and KG are done with the Celtics. I can't see a quick rebuild happening, and if it's going to take 4-5 years, may as well blow it up. I mean, they are considering buying out Pierce and letting him walk. If they were planning to keep building, that seems pretty dumb, as they won't even get a single asset back for their best scorer, and it doesn't really clear up money in any way.

  10. #69
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    I firmly believe Boston has ZERO interest in trading Rondo for anybody on our roster. Rondo is a wizard with the ball and one of the few PGs that can gaurd his position relatively well... and he's on a sweet, sweet contract. They view him as the centerpiece of the team, now and for the future. They've done well to put together a core of Rondo, Lee, Bradley, Green + whatever they can land for a KG/PP transaction and/or sign with the cap space those guys create. Other than Ross' potential as an outside shooter, the trade options suggested here (Gay, Lowry, Ross) duplicate pieces Boston's already built into their core. I can't see any way they trade Rondo unless they are getting a Westbrook-type peice back.

  11. #70
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote NoBan wrote: View Post
    I firmly believe Boston has ZERO interest in trading Rondo for anybody on our roster. Rondo is a wizard with the ball and one of the few PGs that can gaurd his position relatively well... and he's on a sweet, sweet contract. They view him as the centerpiece of the team, now and for the future. They've done well to put together a core of Rondo, Lee, Bradley, Green + whatever they can land for a KG/PP transaction and/or sign with the cap space those guys create. Other than Ross' potential as an outside shooter, the trade options suggested here (Gay, Lowry, Ross) duplicate pieces Boston's already built into their core. I can't see any way they trade Rondo unless they are getting a Westbrook-type peice back.
    That is not a very good core, and they could maybe not sign/acquire anybody for KG and Pierce. I really don't see how Boston stays a good team.

    Also, while maybe they wouldn't want to trade Rondo to us, they clearly like players on our roster. They were a team rumored to be after Gay, as well as the fact that Doc drools about DeMar in the papers when we play them.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri May 3rd, 2013 at 11:09 AM.

  12. #71
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The question is, how the hell would they build on the fly around Rondo? If they don't struggle enough, they'll get late lottery picks. They don't have any good assets to trade beyond Rondo and Green (in terms of guys they can build a package around). It may be in their best interest, both short- and long- term, to start wiping the slate clean, and stocking young assets while "tanking".

    I mean, if KG retires and they buy out Pierce, are the Celtics a playoff team next year? Maybe, but likely not. And if they aren't, are they going to be bad enough to have high hopes of a top 3 pick? Also unlikely. But if they trade Rondo for Demar + 2 1st rd picks (for starters, with whatever else it takes to make things work), then they're looking at a solid young SG who's a good secondary player, one or many draft picks in the deepest draft in a decade, where either Wiggins or Parker could fit nicely next to DeMar, and where they may even draft a PG like Harrison.

    If the Celtics don't decide to blow it up, they have very few avenues to improve their team around Rondo, and are looking at being a very mediocre team, struggling to build a winner again. I don't know. Honestly, speaking objectively, I don't think maintaining a Rondo-led team is a very good idea if Pierce and KG are done with the Celtics. I can't see a quick rebuild happening, and if it's going to take 4-5 years, may as well blow it up. I mean, they are considering buying out Pierce and letting him walk. If they were planning to keep building, that seems pretty dumb, as they won't even get a single asset back for their best scorer, and it doesn't really clear up money in any way.
    If Rondo was available (and I'm still not sure he is), I don't think they would trade him to an Eastern conference team.. and I especially don't think they would trade him to a team in the same division.

    Teams in the West that need a PG include New Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento, and Utah. I think any of those teams could come up with a better package then DeMar and 2 first rounders.

    NO for example could offer a first rounder, Gordon and Rivers for Rondo and Lee.

  13. #72
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    If Rondo was available (and I'm still not sure he is), I don't think they would trade him to an Eastern conference team.. and I especially don't think they would trade him to a team in the same division.

    Teams in the West that need a PG include New Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento, and Utah. I think any of those teams could come up with a better package then DeMar and 2 first rounders.

    NO for example could offer a first rounder, Gordon and Rivers for Rondo and Lee.
    Oh, there are definitely going to be other teams in the mix, likely with better talent to offer. The question will be what Boston wants to get back.

    Again, I think if they are deciding to tank, they would prefer a legit secondary piece like DeMar, who is nice to have around in the short term and can easily fit as they build for the long term, over a guy like Gordon, who is not a superstar but gets paid like one, and whose injury history leaves serious doubts as to what kind of long-term piece he is.

    I think if Boston is going to acquire a lot of salary in a Rondo trade, it would be a very obvious cap relief deal. Maybe somehow try and get Gasol's expiring contract...or you know, find a team with a similar contract and a young asset + pick(s) to throw in. I don't think they will acquire a bloated contract of a young player like Gordon. Maybe a more proven young guy, but then Boston would likely be giving up more than they're getting back (the disadvantage of a trade for a guy like Westbrook, lets say, where OKC would ask for more than Rondo back).

  14. #73
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    The whole point of all this, as it's taken over this thread temporarily, is not
    Demar = Rondo or
    DeMar = Love

    It's just that DeMar is the best piece we have to build a deal around to get such a player. This is partly because I see it as unlikely that a team trading one of those guys wants the principle piece coming back to be a higher contract, like Gay. I also see it as unlikely that Lowry would be enough to get a deal done, with his small expiring contract. He doesn't give enough financial flexibility or become an asset for the future. Now, it could easily be Lowry + DeMar/Ross and get a pretty good player back, but in such a deal, DeMar and Ross are the targets of the other team, Lowry is just to make money work and provide some cap relief. As for Ross, his contract is obviously way too small to be the centrepiece of any deal except a 1-for-1 type trade with another rookie-scale deal...(Bledsoe for Ross and a 1st rounder?).

  15. #74
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    That is not a very good core, and they could maybe not sign/acquire anybody for KG and Pierce. I really don't see how Boston stays a good team.

    Also, while maybe they wouldn't want to trade Rondo to us, they clearly like players on our roster. They were a team rumored to be after Gay, as well as the fact that Doc drools about DeMar in the papers when we play them.
    We can't make the case it's a top-shelf core (ala Rose/Noah/Deng), but I think it's damn decent job of assembling pieces on the fly considering they are still making noise in the playoffs. You're right, no guarantees they make the playoffs again if PP/KG are off the roster next year, but they've recycled the PJ Browns, Kendrick Perkins, Ray Allens and James Poseys of the world into useable pieces for the next era.

    Rondo is a 'best player on a contender' type player. He's in the Rose/Paul/Irving-best PG alive conversation. They done tremendous work using their vets to guide him along and mold him from 20-something pick to all-nba talent.

    Bradley's all-world defense makes him a nice piece too. He and Rondo starting in the backcourt can lock down opposing perimeters ala Allen/Conley in Memphis. Bradley needs to add the (corner) 3-ball to justify big minutes in key games, and he's shown flashes that he can do it. We've seen guys like Sefolosha, Leonard and Bowen add jumpers and become key pieces of contenders.

    Admittedly, I like Green more than most. The big knock on the guy is inconsistency, which I view as an opportunity to exend his "great" stretches as much as I focus on the negative. I think his inconsistency is somewhat learned behavior after deferring to OKC's alpha dogs. I think it's somewhat timidity borne out of not knowing if he can 100% trust his body after his health issues. 2 years removed from his surgery, I think he's a good bet to take the next step as his recovery nears completion (especially from a mental standpoint). His exposure to quality leadership in Boston is something that could help him overcome that learned timidity that marked his earliest days in the NBA. As PP moves into a new phase of his career and Green reaches is (delayed) prime, I like him as a breakout candidate to become a high-impact player. He's also an ideal player for the "small ball 4" position that's becoming more of a necessity.

    Lee is the least likeable piece of this "core", but still serviceable as a 3 member of a 3 man guard rotation. He's one of the best corner shooters in the league, plays 1 on 1 & team D, and can handle it a bit. With Rondo & Bradley shooting issues, they may look at moving Lee or Bradley for a better shooter (to play the 2011 Ray Allen role), but all 3 are + players with room to improve.

    The biggest issues going forward are nuturing Green to come out of his shell, and making sure their guard are a cohesive unit (that is, making sure nobody hates Rondo like Ray did). Considering they have one of the best and most respected coaches/leaders in the league, they are in a pretty good spot... and they haven't had a lotto pick since the Durant draft, not bad at all.

    Adding in that they have cap room galore coming up, and aging but still tradeable assets beyond these 4 players, they are in a much, much better spot than most are willing to give them going forward.

    Going into the hypothetical, they could use cap space to add 1 all-nba piece at forward, perhaps get a rotation player with their picks in the next couple of years, and add a vetern contributor (Kobe? -- just kidding!). I see a path for them to remain relevant while rebuilding on the fly. It's impressive. Especially when contrasted with our 5 years and counting lottery results.
    Last edited by NoBan; Fri May 3rd, 2013 at 11:52 AM.

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