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Thread: Jason Collins comes out as a homosexual

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    I am well aware my quote is incomplete. I never claimed that's all she said. I was simply presenting the other side of the coin in addition to what you said. Right off the top of the interview, she said she has mixed emotions. You can be supportive and still very hurt and neither side should be ignored.

    EDIT: She came off great in the interview and I'm glad for her that she's been able to forgive him and support him and, ostensibly, try hard to move on with her life. Much kudos to her.
    who wouldn't have mixed emotions though? if somebody i had no relationship with, just a buddy, who i'd known for 7-8 years, came and told me that he was gay... i would have mixed emotions too... quickly followed up with "meh... who cares. wanna grab a beer? no ass-grabbery, dude."

    i agree... she came off really great.. despite morgan clearly fishing for her to drop a line or two he could use as a headline

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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    Plus 41%FG that season, dude sucks both figuratively and literally
    haha

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    Its cool that he came out and is true to himself and all that, it definitely took cajones.

    I wonder how the rest of the dudes are gonna play D, against a guy who wants the D. If hes still in the league guaranteed dudes are gonna think twice against boxing him out, his stats might spike up.


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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    Its cool that he came out and is true to himself and all that, it definitely took cajones.

    I wonder how the rest of the dudes are gonna play D, against a guy who wants the D. If hes still in the league guaranteed dudes are gonna think twice against boxing him out, his stats might spike up.

    Being Gay does not mean being a pervert.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    the only prerequisite to being a pervert is having a functioning human body.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What people (like Broussard) fail to realize is that we all have a right to an opinion....but we don't have the right to have our opinions respected.

    If he wants to start spouting BS written thousands of years ago before anyone had the slightest idea how the universe operates, that's fine. Just be prepared to defend your stance.
    Here's the problem with religious proscriptions against homosexuality. They make the assumption that a persons choice of sexual orientation is simply that, "a choice." Last I heard people who are attracted to those of the same gender are genetically constructed that way due to a mutation in a gene. Just like those with blue eye are that way because of genetic structure, and dark skin is because of genetic structure.

    You can condemn a person for murder, for rape, for stealing, for being profane, for many things, but not race, eye colour or sexual orientation (homosexual vs heterosexual) because in these later cases, there is no choice.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Here's the problem with religious proscriptions against homosexuality. They make the assumption that a persons choice of sexual orientation is simply that, "a choice." Last I heard people who are attracted to those of the same gender are genetically constructed that way due to a mutation in a gene. Just like those with blue eye are that way because of genetic structure, and dark skin is because of genetic structure.

    You can condemn a person for murder, for rape, for stealing, for being profane, for many things, but not race, eye colour or sexual orientation (homosexual vs heterosexual) because in these later cases, there is no choice.
    Last I heard it's not in the genes, but depends on environmental factors (biological ones, like hormones in the womb - not because he played with pink dolls) which influence the way genes express themselves. There is no gay gene (as some once thought).

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Last I heard it's not in the genes, but depends on environmental factors (biological ones, like hormones in the womb - not because he played with pink dolls) which influence the way genes express themselves. There is no gay gene (as some once thought).
    Yeah nothing has been proven yet. I actually did some research on this a couple of months ago.

    Personal 'choice' is most definitely a factor, along with the 'nurture' factor you mentioned

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    Quote Sig wrote: View Post
    Yeah nothing has been proven yet. I actually did some research on this a couple of months ago.

    Personal 'choice' is most definitely a factor, along with the 'nurture' factor you mentioned
    What I mentioned isn't nurture in the traditional sense. The nature/nurture debate is kinda out of the window nowadays, as environmental factors (and I use that term broadly, indicating biological factors as well as social -) influence our biological make-up.

    I don't think that personal choice is a factor mentioned in any recent decent research, but maybe you can point me to some?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    nurture/nature debate is so last century.

    It seems quite obvious a perfect storm of all factors play apart in who we are.
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Statistics will tell you that 4% of the population are homosexual. That means every second team should have one player who is homosexual. To me it's amazing he's the only one out because how do they hide it from their teammates? These guys are together all the time and hang out. Some of his teammates/friends must have known and kept quiet.
    The fact that he was able to keep it from his twin brother for 32 years is a pretty good testimonial to how good he was at hiding it. That said, I'm sure there are more gay athletes in the NBA and I'm sure some of them are out within their own families and perhaps a few teammates.

    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Absolutely; that's so short sighted. Come on, everybody knows that men age better.
    BOOM!
    Quote Garbo wrote: View Post
    I just watched the video clip, and I have to say that there is WAY more hatred coming from this page than there was from that clip. What a joke!
    The questions were revolving around Brassard's faith. If you can watch that video and tell me that he's in any way a bigot or a jerk, than you should truly check yourself in the mirror. He said it himself, in his worldview that lifestyle is wrong (and he went on to say that hetero sex outside of marriage and drunkenness are all wrong too) but it doesn't change anything on the court. He and Collins were able to get along just fine.. Without agreeing on everything! .. Almost like tolerance (which there is none of in a bunch of these anti Christian posts)
    It's like asking a vegetarian if they're uncomfortable playing with people who eat meat.
    "No, we talked about it, and I know where he stands and he knows where I stand. This is real tolerance; that we can disagree but still coexist." The commentator than asks, "Can't someone eat meat everyday and still be a vegetarian?" And he responds, "No, if you eat meat everyday than you surely aren't a vegetarian. That goes against the rules of being a vegetarian."

    I would even go on to say that it took more courage to do what Broussard did, than it did to do what Collins did. Of course Collins is being applauded! Pro sports has been waiting for this person to rise up for years. Broussard knew that he would have his beliefs ripped on by everyone, and he likely knew it might cost him his job, but he had to answer the question truthfully. Sometimes in our knee jerk reactions we swing the pendulum entirely the other way, but then you've just created ignorance and intolerance of another group. Let's just grow up. If Broussard had of insulted Collins I'd be right on board with you. The fact is, he didn't. He shouldn't lose his job for this. That would be some real intolerance.
    I feel the need to respond to this. First there's a huge difference between being a vegetarian and being queer, which many people have pointed out.

    Equally important, however, is how GLBT are treated under the law. There are many places in the world were "acts of homosexuality" are still illegal. Nobody is campaigning that vegetarians should not be allowed to marry, or that vegetarians should not be allowed to adopt children because they will make their kids vegetarian (even though there's probably a stronger correlation between vegetarian kids and parents than gay kids and parents).

    Secondly, although I don't self-identify as a christian, I think it is very problematic for someone who does self-identify as christian to pronounce a blanket statement basically saying you can't be gay and a christian, and their are hundreds of thousands of gay christians who would disagree with him, and be (rightfully) offended by his statement. It isn't his opinion that being gay isn't in line with his interpretation of the bible that bothers me (although that view is problematic since what is and is not cool has been cherry-picked throughout history), it's that he presumes to pronounce judgement upon another human being and their personal relationship with jesus. If I was jesus, I'd be like, "Who does this schmuck think he is? Nobody tells jesus how to love gay men, because jesus' loves everybody!" My main issue with his statement is not that it's anti-gay (which it definitely is), but that it is anti-christian, which for a self-proclaimed christian, and a member of the media, is VERY problematic.

    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    The thing is that this increases the chance of him getting signed 1pt 1.6rebs on 31% shooting doesn't sell in the NBA, but the dude got the world buzzing and now is the most talked about athlete in the world and that alone gets him some looks from the GMs.
    I totally agree. I don't see him not getting a contract now. Jason Collins is officially this year's Jeremy Lin.

    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    Opinions on Collins being with a woman for eight years, going as far as getting engaged to her before suddenly breaking it off for reasons she thought were bullshit at the time?


    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    the only prerequisite to being a pervert is having a functioning human body.
    I disagree with this. The only prerequisite to being a pervert is having a functioning brain.

    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    nurture/nature debate is so last century.

    It seems quite obvious a perfect storm of all factors play apart in who we are.
    I'm pleasantly surprised by the reactions from other basketball players in the NBA, although I'm sure there are still plenty who have negative views that have chosen to stay quiet, either out of respect, or because they're worried about backlash (to be honest i'm okay with either reasons).

    For the record I do feel the need to point out that gender and sex are NOT the same (Sex is biological, Gender is a social construct).

    Neither are dichotomous either/or identifications and occur along a spectrum. If we only allow two categories for human beings: man or woman, straight or gay, we unfairly (imo) marginalize those who don't fit into those classifications, so please don't forget about the bisexual/transgendered/transexul/two-spirited people when you discuss questions of sex and gender.


    Props to Jason Collins for coming out. Although I think there will be teams that don't sign him because he's gay, there will be teams that sign him because he is. Both are not ideal, but it balances out in the short term, and hopefully, continues to put us on the path where gender is no longer a big deal in the long term.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon May 6th, 2013 at 07:30 AM.
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    For the record I do feel the need to point out that gender and sex are NOT the same (Sex is biological, Gender is a social construct).
    You present this as fact; which is hard, because the idea of a social construct is a social construct in itself.

    But besides that: the problem with social constructivism is that it ignores brainscience, evolutionairy psychology and related stuff. It's very much based on the idea of the tabula rasa to make claims like 'gender is a social construct'. Ever since about the end of the 1990's this idea is difficult to hold onto. Partly because it has always been a political tool more than a scientific one and partly because people within those disciplines that talk about this don't really study 'real' sciences by themself (by rather as retold by someone within their disciplines (nevermind the talk of being 'interdisciplinary')), this idea of the social construct is still very much prominent among large parts of women's studies, cultural studies, etc.

    They really should move beyond this and go with a biocultural paradigma which can be more solidly based in science (and thus reality) .

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Last I heard it's not in the genes, but depends on environmental factors (biological ones, like hormones in the womb - not because he played with pink dolls) which influence the way genes express themselves. There is no gay gene (as some once thought).
    Thanks for pointing this out. Nice article here (http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/1...homosexuality/) that explains it a little, but there doesn't seem to be any disagreement with my original premise that it is something you are born with. As you say, playing with pink dolls won't do it. It appears to be intra-utero environmental factors.

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    What I mentioned isn't nurture in the traditional sense. The nature/nurture debate is kinda out of the window nowadays, as environmental factors (and I use that term broadly, indicating biological factors as well as social -) influence our biological make-up.

    I don't think that personal choice is a factor mentioned in any recent decent research, but maybe you can point me to some?
    Not directly, but it's there somewhere

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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post

    Equally important, however, is how GLBT are treated under the law. There are many places in the world were "acts of homosexuality" are still illegal. Nobody is campaigning that vegetarians should not be allowed to marry, or that vegetarians should not be allowed to adopt children because they will make their kids vegetarian (even though there's probably a stronger correlation between vegetarian kids and parents than gay kids and parents).
    I don't see how this is related?
    Last edited by Sig; Wed May 8th, 2013 at 06:04 PM.

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    Quote Sig wrote: View Post
    I don't see how this is related?
    clearly you don't see the severity of the vegetarian epidemic... we can't allow those abominations to breed.

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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    clearly you don't see the severity of the vegetarian epidemic... we can't allow those abominations to breed.
    No it's cool, more for us
    Last edited by Sig; Thu May 9th, 2013 at 05:33 PM.

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Here's the problem with religious proscriptions against homosexuality. They make the assumption that a persons choice of sexual orientation is simply that, "a choice." Last I heard people who are attracted to those of the same gender are genetically constructed that way due to a mutation in a gene. Just like those with blue eye are that way because of genetic structure, and dark skin is because of genetic structure.

    You can condemn a person for murder, for rape, for stealing, for being profane, for many things, but not race, eye colour or sexual orientation (homosexual vs heterosexual) because in these later cases, there is no choice.
    If it's a "mutation in gene" and not a choice. Than what's to say about bi-sexual's?

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