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Thread: Back-Up PG

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Default Back-Up PG

    I was thinking of players that the Raps might be able to target for their back-up PG role. What we need is a cheap and available option, but someone who is ideally more of a distributor than scorer to counter Lowry's style.

    So when I was thinking of names, one that popped up interested, but I was wondering what the RR thought of bringing in T-Mac. At this point in his career, he is more of a distributor than scorer but can still hit the open jumper. He is a veteran who can be had for fairly cheap.

    Would you welcome back T-Mac to be Lowry's back-up?
    F*ck Brooklyn

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    What's his injury history for the last couple of years? Don't know if he would be interested at this point in his career.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    T-Mac isn't a point guard, so I would pass.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I was thinking of players that the Raps might be able to target for their back-up PG role. What we need is a cheap and available option, but someone who is ideally more of a distributor than scorer to counter Lowry's style.

    So when I was thinking of names, one that popped up interested, but I was wondering what the RR thought of bringing in T-Mac. At this point in his career, he is more of a distributor than scorer but can still hit the open jumper. He is a veteran who can be had for fairly cheap.

    Would you welcome back T-Mac to be Lowry's back-up?
    No offense....But have you lost your mind? You want T-Mac trying to guard guys like Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, etc....??

    This is a horrible idea. If we're going to bring back a physically over-the hill tall distributor, why not just offer Magic a contract? I'm sure he can pass and hit the open jumper still...probably much better than T-Mac.

    Just bolded that one part to emphasize what I mean...T-Mac has no more career to speak of. He's done. Finished. Washed up. Useless by NBA standards. To say he's a shadow of his former self would be too kind. And it's not like he's a solid veteran. T-Mac has pretty much never been the best leader/character guy for his whole career. He doesn't have intangibles and wisdom to spread to his younger teammates.

    Sorry if I seem agitated and antagonistic, but seriously, this is maybe the worst idea I've read on these forums (that isn't a tenforthewin thread). Wouldn't matter if he's the back-up or 3rd string PG, or the 15th man on the roster....Pass on T-Mac. Every. Time.

    *The thing I really don't get is why not target Shaun Livingston as a tall PG? Almost as tall as Tmac. Actually a PG. Actually starting to blossom as opposed to being totally spent and washed up.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu May 2nd, 2013 at 08:18 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    T-Mac isn't a point guard, so I would pass.
    He could play PG if we really needed, he's got good handles for a guy that's 6'8".

    I still pass though.
    Writer for RaptorsWatch.com

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    No offense....But have you lost your mind? You want T-Mac trying to guard guys like Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, etc....??
    This is a horrible idea. If we're going to bring back a physically over-the hill tall distributor, why not just offer Magic a contract? I'm sure he can pass and hit the open jumper still...probably much better than T-Mac.

    Just bolded that one part to emphasize what I mean...T-Mac has no more career to speak of. He's done. Finished. Washed up. Useless by NBA standards. To say he's a shadow of his former self would be too kind. And it's not like he's a solid veteran. T-Mac has pretty much never been the best leader/character guy for his whole career. He doesn't have intangibles and wisdom to spread to his younger teammates.

    Sorry if I seem agitated and antagonistic, but seriously, this is maybe the worst idea I've read on these forums (that isn't a tenforthewin thread). Wouldn't matter if he's the back-up or 3rd string PG, or the 15th man on the roster....Pass on T-Mac. Every. Time.

    *The thing I really don't get is why not target Shaun Livingston as a tall PG? Almost as tall as Tmac. Actually a PG. Actually starting to blossom as opposed to being totally spent and washed up.
    Would you want anyone on this team or possibly on this team guarding any of those guys? If your criteria for a cheap back-up is that they have to guard Rose, Westbrook and Co. then I think you will find it very hard to find anyone.

    T-Mac played a lot of PG for Atlanta. And it isn't about getting a tall PG (kind of a weird criteria), but someone who isn't spending all of his energy looking for his own shot (so the opposite of JL3).

    We have very few options since we have zero flexibility, a veteran's minimum deal for the former Raptor isn't a stretch to me.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    ...T-Mac has no more career to speak of. He's done. Finished. Washed up. Useless by NBA standards.
    Also, if he is useless by NBA standards then why did he just log more play-off minutes this week for the Spurs than the entire Raptors roster? He's 33, which isn't ancient for back-ups.
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    Is the 2011-12 Gary Forbes experiment at PG so long ago that people already forgot the results?

    Add my vote to "Pass on McGrady as a backup PG' clan.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll pass. McGrady is a fringe NBA'er these days in his more natural role of gunner... Asking him to transform into a PG at 34 and provide backup minutes for a team that has playoff aspirations seems like a very bad idea.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Also, if he is useless by NBA standards then why did he just log more play-off minutes this week for the Spurs than the entire Raptors roster? He's 33, which isn't ancient for back-ups.
    Yeah, 5 minutes during a playoff sweep, where he logged 0 pts, 0 reb and 1 ast. Those are really legendary numbers. I'm sure Lowry or Lucas would've struggled to have that kind of impact.

    33 is ancient when you look like a corpse compared to your former self. He has aged way too fast, because he never took great care of his body. Seriously, I am shocked that SAS signed him, but also they were clearly desperate for some kind of insurance since S-Jax clowned his way off another team. McGrady is pretty decrepit. I wouldn't be comfortable with him handling a full backup load, and I'd be wary of giving him an end of bench role, as he's not an "energy" guy, and nor is he a "stabilizing" presence. Again, he has never been known for his leadership or intangibles. Otherwise, I feel like Atlanta would have happily re-signed him after losing a guy like Johnson, as they became both younger and thinner at the wing positions.

    So if he doesn't have the physical ability to be the player he used to be, even in a more marginal role as a T-Mac "light" in a backup role, and he doesn't have the intangibles to be a good veteran, then he's a complete waste of a roster spot.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Backup PG? Are we sure we have a starting PG?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    And on the topic of D, since for some reason you didn't get my point....No, I don't want T-Mac guarding those elite fast PGs. I don't even want him trying. Defense is the most important criterion for any backup PG. Realistically they will get a light load of playing time, so you want them to be able to maintain the kind of disposition the team plays with (to use a Casey-ism). So yes, I want any backup PG to be at least competent when trying to guard guys like Wall, Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, etc (doesn't mean I expect them to be shut down)....I don't want a guy who will look like Aaron Gray did trying to come out to double Kobe. That's pretty much what T-Mac's perimeter D is like now.

    And Livingston fits this very well, and is why I brought up height, since from a defensive perspective, it is the only positive about McGrady. Livingston, on the other hand, is only slightly shorter, is quicker on both ends of the court, is a natural PG in skill-set, and likely won't cost a lot of money, since it's not like he was tearing it up this year (but he did very obviously at least grow into a niche as a solid back up PG). The other nice thing about height, is that with Livingston and our current crop of players, we could play very athletic lineups where DeMar/Ross are the shortest players on the floor. That seems like a pretty good option to me.

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    TMac's a good option, but I was thinking somebody more like Eric Montross would be a better fit for our backup PG need.

    On second thought, JYD must be available. He'd be great! A fan favourite!

    Seriously though... Mike James Bitch!

    But really... we need Jose.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Hugmenot wrote: View Post
    Is the 2011-12 Gary Forbes experiment at PG so long ago that people already forgot the results?

    Add my vote to "Pass on McGrady as a backup PG' clan.
    Come on take that back man, you are going piss Ceez off.

    Ceez he didn't mean it!...don't do anything crazy!

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    And on the topic of D, since for some reason you didn't get my point....No, I don't want T-Mac guarding those elite fast PGs. I don't even want him trying. Defense is the most important criterion for any backup PG. Realistically they will get a light load of playing time, so you want them to be able to maintain the kind of disposition the team plays with (to use a Casey-ism). So yes, I want any backup PG to be at least competent when trying to guard guys like Wall, Westbrook, Rondo, Rose, etc (doesn't mean I expect them to be shut down)....I don't want a guy who will look like Aaron Gray did trying to come out to double Kobe. That's pretty much what T-Mac's perimeter D is like now.

    And Livingston fits this very well, and is why I brought up height, since from a defensive perspective, it is the only positive about McGrady. Livingston, on the other hand, is only slightly shorter, is quicker on both ends of the court, is a natural PG in skill-set, and likely won't cost a lot of money, since it's not like he was tearing it up this year (but he did very obviously at least grow into a niche as a solid back up PG). The other nice thing about height, is that with Livingston and our current crop of players, we could play very athletic lineups where DeMar/Ross are the shortest players on the floor. That seems like a pretty good option to me.



    I am intrigued with Livingston, he turns 28 in September, he should have a few years left in the tank, even with his past injury. My concern is with his complete lack of an outside game how will he blend with a roster of non-shooters? What I do like is that he brings a very different look as the back-up and has had to really learn how to play an mental game after losing some of his pep.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Forbesy
    @jerboat

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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    [/B]

    I am intrigued with Livingston, he turns 28 in September, he should have a few years left in the tank, even with his past injury. My concern is with his complete lack of an outside game how will he blend with a roster of non-shooters? What I do like is that he brings a very different look as the back-up and has had to really learn how to play an mental game after losing some of his pep.
    This is already a problem without him here. Realistically, we can hope Ross gets better, and Rudy reverts to his career average. DeMar, again, I just hope develops a 3 from the corners...shit, even just one corner. Fields is a huge wildcard, so I'm not even going to get into that. Lowry's a good shooter, and don't discount the possibility that with Livingston's size, he can play some minutes with another small guard (Lowry, Lucas, a new guy) and not make it an issue defensively, as he is even bigger than most SGs and can slide over with ease, while also allowing those guys to take a break running things and get a few minutes as shooters.

    It's definitely a shame that he doesn't have that shot, but like you say, his game has become much more mental, and on both ends of the court. This is a good quality for a backup. He also plays with good energy defensively, and can create nightmares for most PGs in the league. The thing about shooting backups is they can often shoot you out of a game. Like Bayless, or Lucas..just because I'm too lazy to think of other examples.

    Do you take the guy who can hit a shot at a higher % or the guy who'll always get your team the higher % shot? So again, it's more a problem that Toronto doesn't already have better shooters. Our backup PG, who'll play probably 15-20 minutes at most per game, could help our shooting, but would not be a major difference maker overall in that respect. We're going to need that from our major minute eaters. I also like the option of keeping a shooting 3rd stringer like Lucas around anyway, because I also think it's damn near impossible to find a 3rd stringer with good PG skills, so having a shooter is fine.

    *Also, there are obviously better offensive PGs who can shoot the ball and pass it. I'm not saying it's gotta be one or the other. I just don't see some of the better FA options landing in Toronto. Maybe they manage to snatch someone in a trade, like Ridnour, but I still don't see that specific scenario as very likely.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu May 2nd, 2013 at 01:08 PM.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Forbesy
    Who?

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    No offense....But have you lost your mind? You want T-Mac trying to guard guys like Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, etc....??

    This is a horrible idea. If we're going to bring back a physically over-the hill tall distributor, why not just offer Magic a contract? I'm sure he can pass and hit the open jumper still...probably much better than T-Mac.

    Just bolded that one part to emphasize what I mean...T-Mac has no more career to speak of. He's done. Finished. Washed up. Useless by NBA standards. To say he's a shadow of his former self would be too kind. And it's not like he's a solid veteran. T-Mac has pretty much never been the best leader/character guy for his whole career. He doesn't have intangibles and wisdom to spread to his younger teammates.

    Sorry if I seem agitated and antagonistic, but seriously, this is maybe the worst idea I've read on these forums (that isn't a tenforthewin thread). Wouldn't matter if he's the back-up or 3rd string PG, or the 15th man on the roster....Pass on T-Mac. Every. Time.

    *The thing I really don't get is why not target Shaun Livingston as a tall PG? Almost as tall as Tmac. Actually a PG. Actually starting to blossom as opposed to being totally spent and washed up.

    Back up pg. not starter. But I agree, i'm sure there are better options available.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Also, if he is useless by NBA standards then why did he just log more play-off minutes this week for the Spurs than the entire Raptors roster? He's 33, which isn't ancient for back-ups.
    Unfortunately longevity int he NBA is not dictated by age. Players that were drafted out of high school tend to be forced to retire at a younger age because of wear and tear. Kinda like buying a used car, mileage is more important than age.

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