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  • #16
    Forbesy
    @sweatpantsjer

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    • #17
      WJF wrote: View Post
      [/B]

      I am intrigued with Livingston, he turns 28 in September, he should have a few years left in the tank, even with his past injury. My concern is with his complete lack of an outside game how will he blend with a roster of non-shooters? What I do like is that he brings a very different look as the back-up and has had to really learn how to play an mental game after losing some of his pep.
      This is already a problem without him here. Realistically, we can hope Ross gets better, and Rudy reverts to his career average. DeMar, again, I just hope develops a 3 from the corners...shit, even just one corner. Fields is a huge wildcard, so I'm not even going to get into that. Lowry's a good shooter, and don't discount the possibility that with Livingston's size, he can play some minutes with another small guard (Lowry, Lucas, a new guy) and not make it an issue defensively, as he is even bigger than most SGs and can slide over with ease, while also allowing those guys to take a break running things and get a few minutes as shooters.

      It's definitely a shame that he doesn't have that shot, but like you say, his game has become much more mental, and on both ends of the court. This is a good quality for a backup. He also plays with good energy defensively, and can create nightmares for most PGs in the league. The thing about shooting backups is they can often shoot you out of a game. Like Bayless, or Lucas..just because I'm too lazy to think of other examples.

      Do you take the guy who can hit a shot at a higher % or the guy who'll always get your team the higher % shot? So again, it's more a problem that Toronto doesn't already have better shooters. Our backup PG, who'll play probably 15-20 minutes at most per game, could help our shooting, but would not be a major difference maker overall in that respect. We're going to need that from our major minute eaters. I also like the option of keeping a shooting 3rd stringer like Lucas around anyway, because I also think it's damn near impossible to find a 3rd stringer with good PG skills, so having a shooter is fine.

      *Also, there are obviously better offensive PGs who can shoot the ball and pass it. I'm not saying it's gotta be one or the other. I just don't see some of the better FA options landing in Toronto. Maybe they manage to snatch someone in a trade, like Ridnour, but I still don't see that specific scenario as very likely.
      Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu May 2, 2013, 01:08 PM.

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      • #18
        ceez wrote: View Post
        Forbesy
        Who?

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        • #19
          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          No offense....But have you lost your mind? You want T-Mac trying to guard guys like Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, etc....??

          This is a horrible idea. If we're going to bring back a physically over-the hill tall distributor, why not just offer Magic a contract? I'm sure he can pass and hit the open jumper still...probably much better than T-Mac.

          Just bolded that one part to emphasize what I mean...T-Mac has no more career to speak of. He's done. Finished. Washed up. Useless by NBA standards. To say he's a shadow of his former self would be too kind. And it's not like he's a solid veteran. T-Mac has pretty much never been the best leader/character guy for his whole career. He doesn't have intangibles and wisdom to spread to his younger teammates.

          Sorry if I seem agitated and antagonistic, but seriously, this is maybe the worst idea I've read on these forums (that isn't a tenforthewin thread). Wouldn't matter if he's the back-up or 3rd string PG, or the 15th man on the roster....Pass on T-Mac. Every. Time.

          *The thing I really don't get is why not target Shaun Livingston as a tall PG? Almost as tall as Tmac. Actually a PG. Actually starting to blossom as opposed to being totally spent and washed up.

          Back up pg. not starter. But I agree, i'm sure there are better options available.
          Welp, that sucked.

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          • #20
            Axel wrote: View Post
            Also, if he is useless by NBA standards then why did he just log more play-off minutes this week for the Spurs than the entire Raptors roster? He's 33, which isn't ancient for back-ups.
            Unfortunately longevity int he NBA is not dictated by age. Players that were drafted out of high school tend to be forced to retire at a younger age because of wear and tear. Kinda like buying a used car, mileage is more important than age.
            Welp, that sucked.

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            • #21
              WJF wrote: View Post
              I am intrigued with Livingston, he turns 28 in September, he should have a few years left in the tank, even with his past injury. My concern is with his complete lack of an outside game how will he blend with a roster of non-shooters? What I do like is that he brings a very different look as the back-up and has had to really learn how to play an mental game after losing some of his pep.
              Shaun Livingston played well in Cleveland and I am sure they will try to resign him if the price is reasonable. He is good at posting up smaller guards and has good court vision, especially from the top of the key (he threaded the needle a number of times finding cutters from that position). Cannot shoot the 3, at all. I hope he is back with Cleveland next season because I do not want to see another Donald Sloan type PG out there! You guys complain about JL3 but you have yet to see how awful a Donald Sloan can be.

              I am guessing he is the second resign priority after Wayne Ellington. Maybe The Son of Bill is third, and Marreese Speights if he is willing to sign for far less than he thinks he is worth.

              I know a few people mentioned Marreese Speights on these boards a few times but I do not want to see him as a Raptor. Lazy ass defender, loves shooting the long 2 and will not pass an opportunity to do so.

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              • #22
                c_bcm wrote: View Post
                Back up pg. not starter. But I agree, i'm sure there are better options available.
                As in next in line. It means he'll likely play at least some minutes against such guys, and would be the primary PG if there is an injury, having to play heavy minutes against them. Any situation where he would have to play 20+ mpg if someone gets injured, even as the 3rd PG, is too much for him. At best he's a 6th wing...He's Mikael Pietrus. Except, frankly, I think Pietrus is a better locker room guy.

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                • #23
                  Hugmenot wrote: View Post
                  Shaun Livingston played well in Cleveland and I am sure they will try to resign him if the price is reasonable. He is good at posting up smaller guards and has good court vision, especially from the top of the key (he threaded the needle a number of times finding cutters from that position). Cannot shoot the 3, at all. I hope he is back with Cleveland next season because I do not want to see another Donald Sloan type PG out there! You guys complain about JL3 but you have yet to see how awful a Donald Sloan can be.

                  I am guessing he is the second resign priority after Wayne Ellington. Maybe The Son of Bill is third, and Marreese Speights if he is willing to sign for far less than he thinks he is worth.

                  I know a few people mentioned Marreese Speights on these boards a few times but I do not want to see him as a Raptor. Lazy ass defender, loves shooting the long 2 and will not pass an opportunity to do so.
                  Price is everything. If the Raptors address their other need, in the frontcourt, through trading Bargnani (I'm not suggesting Bargnani alone would bring back a good asset, so it's either a bigger package or a worse player), then they should have enough money to compete for him. The question is what is Cleveland willing to pay him? He was making peanuts, I'm guessing the minimum, this past season. Could 2-3 million per season snatch him away? Some kind of 2 year deal worth 5-7 million maybe, with the 2nd year only partially guaranteed because of his injury history? With Cleveland having some cap space and willingness to deal, will he be a priority for them?...so could the Raps get him just by beating Cleveland to the punch? Definitely an interesting situation.

                  I think the thing about Speights is that he has a smaller contract than Bargs, which expires next summer. If you're going to get a lazy defender taking long 2s, better to pay him 4.5 million than 10+, and for one less season. Admittedly, the money is the only reason the trade would be at all ok. I don't really want this to happen.

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                  • #24
                    Chauncey Billups - thread closed
                    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                    • #25
                      thead wrote: View Post
                      Chauncey Billups - thread closed
                      Right, because I'm sure Toronto is exactly the type of situation he's looking for....I'm not trying to be negative, but I can't see it being his top choice. By all means though, they should definitely see if he'd have any interest.

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                      • #26
                        thead wrote: View Post
                        Chauncey Billups
                        Billups has actually transitioned out of the PG role, and into more of a spot-up SG role with the Clippers. Has been working for him and his old joints.

                        thead wrote: View Post
                        thread closed
                        At first I thought this said "thead closed" ... would've been the coolest sign-off ever.

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                        • #27
                          I'm still on the boat for Luke Ridnour. I really do believe this team needs a pass-first backup. With Lowry's aggressive style of play, and obviously an uptempo guard, getting a slower, change of pace in Ridnour, or a similar guard would be a good addition.

                          I'm not into having Lucas the primary backup.
                          Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                          • #28
                            I really want Telfair to establish himself as a solid Backup PG. The dude has got a lot of talent and skill, he's the ideal backup pg. Just sort of inconsistent

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                            • #29
                              The "have you lost your mind" comment is the most accurate posted in response to the TMac suggestion. We'd be just as well getting Roy Halladay as the backup PG.

                              I think the #1 thing we need to add with any perimeter player is shooting. We're not going to get a PG that can gaurd is position 1 on 1 with the $ we have available. We need to improve our outside shooting and hope we can coach the guy to at least send opposing PGs towards the help D. Second most important is ball handling because Lowry's our only trustworthy handler right now (gulp!).

                              I was joking when I suggesting Jose and Mike James, but they both fit the bill. Jose is the best player we could hope for, but I'm skeptical he'd come back and we probably can't afford him. James is washed up but can still shoot/space the floor in very limited minutes. JL3 surprised me with his shooting ability at some points this year, but he's more of a 3rd stringer. Boobie Gibson definitely has range. Chauncy and DFish should be considered because they can shoot well and would add the sorely needed vet presence on this team.

                              To sum it all up... LOL @ TMac & we're not looking at anybody much better than Bassy anyways.

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                              • #30
                                I think we already have a pretty good backup point guard. I'd be more concerned about getting a good starter.
                                your pal,
                                ebrian

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