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ebrian wrote: View PostI don't care if DeRozan plays 100% of all available games, he's just not very good.
So, I will simply say that there are ALOT of Basketball minds in the NBA who disagree with you. Adamantly.Last edited by Joey; Tue May 7, 2013, 03:32 PM.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View PostArguments like this are ridiculous, as there's very little room left for a response or rebuttal.
So, I will simply say that there are ALOT of Basketball minds in the NBA who disagree with you.Last edited by ebrian; Tue May 7, 2013, 03:33 PM.your pal,
ebrian
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ebrian wrote: View PostList them.
But I'll play into your game a little bit; here's a quote from Doc Rivers:
"I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”Last edited by Joey; Tue May 7, 2013, 03:39 PM.
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ebrian wrote: View PostList them.
http://www.goodwinsports.com/2012/11...ns-work-ethic/
Complimenting both his work ethic, and his game.
“I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. I think he adds stuff every year. Early on, he was basically a kamikaze driver — that’s what we labeled him as, early on. Now he gets to the line. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”
Everyone’s different,” Rivers said. “(Kevin) Durant picked it up pretty quickly. The greats ones do, some of the guys that have a chance to be really good — it just takes them time and patience. The mental toughness of that is hard. A lot of guys give in, give up and settle. A lot of guys keep driving. What I like about him, and I don’t know him at all, but it just seems like from afar, he must put a lot of time in the summer on his game, because each year, he’s gotten not just a little better, but a lot better in areas that you would have to work on. So I think that’s impressive.”
Will DeMar ever be an elite player? No...I very much doubt that. Could he end up being an incredibly valuable piece on a great team? Yes...I think he can be a very good piece on a very good team team. Like a Caron Butler or Richard Jefferson. I still think so much shit thrown at DeMar is because people are stupidly angry he's not a #1 guy...well he was the 9th pick and a total project at wing when drafted. He could've easily been Joey Graham v.2.0. EASILY.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View PostHow about you list one that agrees with your stance that "Demar isn't very good".
But I'll play into your game a little bit; here's a quote from Doc Rivers:
"I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”
*BTW, just to add something. As someone who watches all his games on League Pass, the player opposing broadcast crews are usually impressed with, after JV, is DeMar. And I just don't mean the talking points. You get a lot of colour guys (usually former players or coaches) like "wow, DeMar is doing things I didn't know he could do" or "he couldn't do before".Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue May 7, 2013, 03:50 PM.
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joey_hesketh wrote: View PostI give you Doc Rivers and you give me Grantland? HAH Ya this conversation is over.
Here's your quote,"I don’t think people notice him — not because they are in Toronto, but because of their record,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said. “I think people are sleeping on him a lot. He makes jump shots. He defends. He’s a total basketball player.”your pal,
ebrian
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hesketh, you arent going to win an argument by saying that Zach Lowe doesn't know shit about basketball.
I was very down on Demar going into the year and I am slightly encouraged at the end of it. He's a lot more consistent with his jumper. Unfortunately, he's worked very hard to develop the most inefficient shot in basketball. Here's hoping he can extend that range a few more feet (I suspect that's the plan). You've gotta love his ability to get to the line, and he's a more aware defender than this time last year. All good signs. But at the end of the day he's still an inefficient offensive player and an irresponsible defender. He's not worth the money he's due
If he were still on a rookie deal, he'd be a nice value piece. But now he's making roughly Lawson/Curry money. He's gotta 1) learn where to aggressively help on D; 2) extend his range beyond the 3 pt arc; 3) increase is BBIQ to the point that he's making lightning quick reads to keep the ball moving at a step ahead of the defense. Smooth, laser-like passes; cutting at the right time with no hesitation; and not disappearing for large stretches. Dude's got a long way to go before he's a value piece at almost $10 mil.
But back to the original point of this post - Any time youre dismissing Zach Lowe's analysis as inaccurate or inconsequential, youre very likely losing an argument.
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ebrian wrote: View PostOnly if you want to be over. You gave me a quote about a coach talking about a player from another team. A team he faces, what, 4 times per year?
Here's your quote,
I've gotta head home now but let's examine the first two statements prior to the one you bolded tomorrow. Or someone else can, because clearly it's beyond ridiculous and completely invalidates your argument.
Bringing up bloggers and holding up their opinions to an amazing coach, former good player and one of the best minds currently in basketball is a joke. A bad joke.Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue May 7, 2013, 04:03 PM.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostAnd how many times a year does Zach Lowe watch DeMar play?
Bringing up bloggers and holding up their opinions to an amazing coach, former good player and one of the best minds currently in basketball is a joke. A bad joke.
Doc didn't say that Demar is a potential all-star worth $10 Mil. He insinuate that Demar has solid tools and very well could become a very good player. That is true. But the current reality is a lot closer to the content to the Lowe piece that ebrian linked. Doc isn't going to say that an opposing player is overpaid, inefficient and has gaping holes in his game
You've done nothing to address any of the problems in Demar's game that Lowe presented. You're just saying "Look what Doc said... See I'm right... Doc backs me up.... You don't think Doc is credible? Then you're wrong, this proves I'm right." Try looking at some of the criticisms of Demar's game, present arguments and counterpoints and, for the love of all things holy, stop insinuating Zach Lowe is not worth considering, the man knows his stuff.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostAnd how many times a year does Zach Lowe watch DeMar play? (watch play...not coach against )
Bringing up bloggers and holding up their opinions to an amazing coach, former good player and one of the best minds currently in basketball is a joke. A bad joke.
It's a nice quote, and I do think that DeRozan has improved a lot in recent seasons even if the advanced metrics don't necessarily reflect that. However the Rivers quote should not be the final and definitive say on DeRozan's value. That's silly.
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Thanks for the backup, White Men.
ebrian wrote:You gave me a quote about a coach talking about a player from another team. A team he faces, what, 4 times per year?
You seriously believe the only information Rivers has on Demar is gathered in the 4 games they play against each other?
NoBan wrote: View PostBut back to the original point of this post - Any time youre dismissing Zach Lowe's analysis as inaccurate or inconsequential, youre very likely losing an argument.
My original point was, and I quote, "there are ALOT of Basketball minds in the NBA who disagree with you."
"In the NBA" being very KEY to all of this, as they are the ones who matter.
I never meant to dismiss Zach Lowe .. except to say that he is nothing more than a Blogger.
Which, when held up against the Legend that is Doc Rivers, or ANYBODY actually IN the NBA, proves to be nothing more than an opinion based on mostly here-say and a couple games he caught on League Pass.
Anyway, this is ridiculous. You've created an argument over OTHER peoples opinions of players. Seriously?
We disagree on Demar's value as a Player. Time to drop it.
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Ok, clearly writer/bloggers put more time into evaluating players than coaches.
Is Doc Rivers going to say something bad about DeMar? No. You're right, he's probably not going to say things like "he's a terrible player". He also has no reason to go on about him for 2 paragraphs though. He clearly could have said less if he thought less, as coaches often do to avoid long media sessions.
And this is all without even mentioning the fact that writers have agendas, and they actively pursue them through their articles. Lowe is basically saying that Demar's performance up to date tells you all you need to know about him so that he can peg him as a bad contract. Doc on the other hand makes the argument that a lot of players that have a chance to be very good need varying time and lots of work, and then also notes that many don't have the will to keep working and fail to grow.
Given DeMar's skill level when he came into the league (basically high school level despite his one year at USC), he has grown much like you'd hope a player of his age and ability to grow. I don't think his contract is outrageous. If he grows for a couple more years, not to mention given his work ethic, even if he doesn't add skill you can expect him to keep refining his game, he could easily be worth it. If he doesn't, it's hardly a burdensome contract of any kind, and at his age is very tradable. DeMar's contract, despite it's cost, is pretty far from bad move, because DeMar, despite his weaknesses, is pretty far from being a bad player.
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