View Poll Results: Grade Bargnani's game.

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  • A

    9 7.03%
  • B

    47 36.72%
  • C

    30 23.44%
  • D

    19 14.84%
  • F

    23 17.97%
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Thread: Everything Bargnani: The Legend Continues

  1. #9421
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    I like where you guys are going with the OKC trade but... after thinking about it maybe the best option IS to amnesty Bargnani-- hear me out. Unless they can find a quality piece, if they amnesty Bargnani they can take 11+ mill off the cap and pay off Kleiza. Financially this would create cap freedom a year earlier. In real finances it's a mess, BUT instead of having to wait 2 years to seriously build the team they can start the process a year earlier.

    Trading Bargnani is only a reasonable option if the team improves with a trade. If not, they might as well create roster space, use minimum one year contracts to fill the bench and take advantage of a deep upcoming draft. If a new GM comes, who wants a title, this might be the only correct long term option.
    Keeping Bargnani would be a great way to take advantage of a deep draft.
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  2. #9422
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Keeping Bargnani would be a great way to take advantage of a deep draft.
    except that with his tendency to get injured, he'll immediately improve the team!

  3. #9423
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    Sign him up as BC's replacement....

  4. #9424
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    turn him into a point guard.

  5. #9425
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    This can't be right. Never mind Bargs...Kendrick Perkins cannot be 3rd. People who say he's a good defender clearly have no idea what they're talking about. He's horrific on both ends of the floor.
    I am not surprised Andrea is in top 5 in 1 on 1 D. As for HELP D -Prob bottom 5.

  6. #9426
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Mapko wrote: View Post
    I am not surprised Andrea is in top 5 in 1 on 1 D. As for HELP D -Prob bottom 5.
    Gotta be #1 in Pure Point Rating among big men.

    Twitter - @thekid_it

  7. #9427
    Raptors Republic All-Star Sig's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Gotta be #1 in Pure Point Rating among big men.

    Damn that was nice! dont even remember this.

  8. #9428
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Sig wrote: View Post
    Damn that was nice! dont even remember this.

    There's the problem with Andrea summed up in eight words. Periodically doing things that make you say "Damn that was nice" then playing like crap for extended periods so you forget all the nice stuff.

    I wish he could bring a little focus and emotion to his game.

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  10. #9429
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Revisiting Bargnani trade scenarios trying to come up with things....Re-posting the only "realistic" one (I found) from the OP plus a few other ideas I have posted around here.....I also realize all of these options don't include sweetener being sent from Toronto to any teams. These deals are more looking at what Toronto might be able to get from Bargnani alone.

    1) Bargnani for Chuck Hayes and Jimmer Fredette.....Personally I think this trade would be hilarious. I would love to see Cousins and Bargnani on the same team. Might actually see a coach try to choke his players instead of the other way around. This is also just an awful trade all around. No team should expect to gain anything from it in the long run. Jimmer might be a somewhat competent backup and shooting specialist (a worse Steve Kerr at best?)

    2) Bargnani for Andris Biedrins/Richard Jefferson + 1st rd pick.....The kind of deal where Toronto might get a pick. GSW really doesn't need to add more youth (not saying they shouldn't, just saying it's kinda pointless). They have young players starting at all perimeter positions and even a couple of key young reserves. Jefferson/Biedrins are both useless for them. Bargnani would be a bench scorer and insurance if either Bogut or Lee goes down. This also only makes sense if Carl Landry walks or is traded....which could even end up being an option for TO...but the more I think of it the less I want Landry.

    3) Bargnani for Kendrick Perkins and Perry Jones.....Swapping garbage bigs....Toronto needs veteran leadership and a gritty backup for JV. OKC needs another shooter/scorer and a post defender. Perry Jones is an intriguing prospect who looks lost in the shuffle in OKC, and he makes it so the money is more balanced. It does work straight up Perk for Bargs, but Bargs makes more by a bit, so this would almost equalize it. Jones is one of those guys where you hope a season of being a benchwarmer made him hungry, and understand how hard he has to work. Why no sweetener sent from Toronto? Not sure OKC will be seeking it. Maybe a 2nd rder. I'd be ok with that. They have 3 draft picks this year, are owed a 1st rder from Dallas eventually, and don't owe any 1st rders.

    4) Bargnani for Luis Scola and Michael Beasley....Been over this one a few times. Scola is at or near the top of my list for veteran bigs to acquire. I hate to take back Beasley, but the money works out well in this deal. Beasley has 2 more years left and I wouldn't be opposed to just buying him out of the last year if (really when) things don't work out. Not too sure why PHX would do this, except that Beasley is a much bigger bust and PR mess for them than they probably imagined. Bargnani clearly wore out his welcome in Toronto, but there's no denying he'd instantly be arguably the most talented player on that shitty PHX team. And since they look to be tanking, that works out just fine.


    Wishful thinking? Or possibly realistic option?

    -Bargs for Ilyasova and Gooden....This has long been thrown around these forums, but now Milwaukee's situation is looking worse for next year. Top tier coaching candidates are brushing them off (SVG, Sloan). It looks likely Jennings is gone. Redick seems likely to sign somewhere else. Don't know anything about what Ellis will do yet...I don't think (I may have missed something). I think they'll unavoidably take a step back next season, so they might decide to blow it up. This deal saves them money, takes a year of commitments away (from Ilyasova), and clears an extra roster spot right away. *This deal would need an extra salary piece from Toronto...but given the nature of the deal, not sure Toronto would have to give back something that useful. Gray? Maybe even Kleiza since his deal would expire and they're going to suck? Ross is obviously the piece they'd want the most, but heck, he may not be depending on who they draft. Still, there's a chance this deal might not need a significant extra asset like Ross to get done, so I put it here, because I really want Ilyasova.

    Reasoning: One reason I think these deals have a chance, even without sweetener, is because they all involve taking back another bad contract/player...Gooden, Beasley, Biedrins/Jefferson, Perkins, Chuck Hayes (I think this could easily be John Salmons instead, especially if they don't want to send an asset with Bargs). Another reason is that the "asset" Toronto gets back would in all cases not be in their current team's future plans. So in no deal would a team be giving something up they think will be a key piece for them going forward. This is really crucial. Ilyasova's the biggest question mark here.

    Again, these deals are all about trying to maximize Bargs without adding an asset (or at worst hopefully just a 2nd rder or protected 1st rder). Obviously there other options if you start mixing in other pieces, but my posts are already always too long.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun May 19th, 2013 at 12:49 PM. Reason: money on Ilyasova deal

  11. #9430
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    I like the Perkins pj trade option the best followed by the scola Beasley. was big and vocal on the pau trade but his knees are holding me back. would probably still make that trade if la had something else to give.

    perkins off the bench ahead of gray is a good move for us and gives more value then bargs anywhere now, pj behind gay gives him a practice body and skill set the same as his to learn from and hopefully naturally take over.

    the scola trade gives a great post player who can stretch the floor and one of the more cerebral players in the the eh league, in my opinion. and beas can be counted on to run ISO plays on the wing for bench points. I would do this just to get rid of bargs.

    and finally an elder statesman who really wants to show his old team his coach is the best scapegoat maker and self preservationist in the league, would help the young kids.

  12. #9431
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Gotta be #1 in Pure Point Rating among big men.

    So much wasted talent...

  13. #9432
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    I like the Perkins pj trade option the best followed by the scola Beasley. was big and vocal on the pau trade but his knees are holding me back. would probably still make that trade if la had something else to give.

    perkins off the bench ahead of gray is a good move for us and gives more value then bargs anywhere now, pj behind gay gives him a practice body and skill set the same as his to learn from and hopefully naturally take over.

    the scola trade gives a great post player who can stretch the floor and one of the more cerebral players in the the eh league, in my opinion. and beas can be counted on to run ISO plays on the wing for bench points. I would do this just to get rid of bargs.

    and finally an elder statesman who really wants to show his old team his coach is the best scapegoat maker and self preservationist in the league, would help the young kids.
    I think I would still do a Pau trade, if that was on the table. It's obvious the guy is breaking down, but this in turn has made his jumpshot significantly better. He can still be a force in the paint and on the glass, but this season especially, we saw him step out and even start to take threes. Although a 3-pointer is far from his best option, it'll be nice to have that addition to his game.
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  14. #9433
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Amnesty Clause: Next GM Has an Important Chip

    The next GM will have a "get out of jail free" card he could use right out of the gate to gain more flexibility next to the tax threshold/salary cap, the "Amnesty Clause."

    Each team is allowed to waive a player without having their salary count toward the salary cap or luxury tax. One player can be waived prior to the start of any season from 2011–12 through 2015–16. It can be exercised during the seven days that follow the July moratorium.
    Source: "NBA Salary Cap", Wikipedia

    Who would they seek to amnesty? Well Ryan McNeill over at Yahoo Sports thinks it should be Bargnani (really, there is no one else worth talking about):
    the obvious target is Andrea Bargnani.

    Bargnani is due $11 million next season and $12 million the following season, but the seven-footer and former first overall draft pick has only averaged 4.8 rebounds during his career. He has never averaged more than 6.2 rebounds in a season.

    On top of that, Bargnani had the third lowest +/- rating on the Raptors last season with a total of -110 despite only playing in 34 games.
    It's no coincidence that Toronto is only 9-25 in games he played last season.
    Last season things turned nasty when he returned from an injury as fans at the Air Canada Centre took to booing him whenever he touched the ball or checked into games.
    Toronto's ownership group, MLSE, has deep pockets and probably wouldn't flinch at the idea of cutting Bargnani loose.
    Source: "Why Toronto Raptors Need to Cut Andrea Bargnani", Yahoo Sports

    Clearly the writer missed the news on Colangelo but that said, it's a good introduction to some off-season discussion revolving around the total cap number. There are two ways to look at this thing:

    1. The Raptors would be capped with or without Bargnani so maybe it would be best to take back cap in a trade so that they get something that fits the team.
    2. He's the only one on roster who fits the criteria of the amnesty clause and has a material amount on their books. If they did amnesty him in July their cap number would be at $56M this year, $37M the year after. This road is all about keeping a buffer between the tax threshold to keep some flexibility that way.


    What do you guys think?

  15. #9434
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Bargs is getting traded Amnesty on him is a waste imo.

  16. #9435
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I want to clarify something. If the Raptors pick up all team options in 2014/15, their cap number will actually be $50M that year, not $37M. Those options are JV, Ross and Johnson.

    The amnesty clause make sense depending on the game plan. Personally I'd prefer him traded for a guy with a couple years left on contract who can help the team.

  17. #9436
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    A trade is more beneficial immediately-- there are no significant free agents worth it this year (maybe next?).

    If you consider the lack of bench talent, the fastest way to sure it up would involve moving Andrea. However, if the end goal is a full rebuild then amnestying Bargnani allows the Raps to start that process in a year, rather than 2.

  18. #9437
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I want to clarify something. If the Raptors pick up all team options in 2014/15, their cap number will actually be $50M that year, not $37M. Those options are JV, Ross and Johnson.

    The amnesty clause make sense depending on the game plan. Personally I'd prefer him traded for a guy with a couple years left on contract who can help the team.
    Carlos Boozer fits perfectly in this mold, especially because he addresses some of our issues such as lack of inside scoring, rebounding, toughness, and leadership.

  19. #9438
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Carlos Boozer fits perfectly in this mold, especially because he addresses some of our issues such as lack of inside scoring, rebounding, toughness, and leadership.
    Did you watch the Bulls in the playoffs? And if you did, do you really think that the Bulls are moving Boozer for Andrea? WE think Andrea is soft. Bargnani isn't tough enough to sit on the Chicago bench in street clothes. These playoffs completely changed the style of the Bulls. They may like Andrea, but he is no longer a fit there.

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  21. #9439
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Did you watch the Bulls in the playoffs? And if you did, do you really think that the Bulls are moving Boozer for Andrea? WE think Andrea is soft. Bargnani isn't tough enough to sit on the Chicago bench in street clothes. These playoffs completely changed the style of the Bulls. They may like Andrea, but he is no longer a fit there.
    Yeah I can't help but feel that the Bargnani-for-Boozer swap is off the table after how the end of the regular season and playoffs played out. Bargnani's value has sunk even lower somehow. Boozer's contract is still ugly but can the Bulls justify moving him for the corpse of Andrea just to save a few bucks? They are fresh off an inspiring playoff run and I think they'll decide to run it back at least one more year with a healthy D Rose.

  22. #9440
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Yeah I can't help but feel that the Bargnani-for-Boozer swap is off the table after how the end of the regular season and playoffs played out. Bargnani's value has sunk even lower somehow. Boozer's contract is still ugly but can the Bulls justify moving him for the corpse of Andrea just to save a few bucks? They are fresh off an inspiring playoff run and I think they'll decide to run it back at least one more year with a healthy D Rose.
    I think Boozer will still be on the table. Looking at www.shamsports.com, the Bulls appear to be about $4M over the cap this year. They have never once ever paid luxury tax before.

    Without any options picked up for next year, they already have a payroll of $77.9M and even if the luxury tax goes up to $5M, they would be above the cap. So they could be hit with the repeater tax.

    The Bulls have the amnesty clause at their disposal but I'm not sure if they would be willing to just amnesty Boozer without getting any kind of asset for him (one can argue that Bargnani is not an asset, but others may feel differently in the league). Outside of Boozer who can they amnesty that would get them below the luxury tax and still have a competitive team? I believe their only amnesty candidates are Noah, Boozer, Deng, and Korver, and I don't think the Bulls would be willing to amnesty any one of those other guys.

    I do think if the next Toronto GM pursued this deal it would be done. But I'm not sure if the Toronto brass would want Boozer on the team, as then they'd be dipping into luxury tax, and is that worth it for a team just scrambling to make it into the playoffs?

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