View Poll Results: What word best describes your preference moving forward for the Raptors?

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  • Tanker

    12 31.58%
  • Tweaker

    26 68.42%
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Thread: Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I'm really enjoying the discussion on both sides, but I wanted to interject that I think the "DeRozan doesn't take it strong to the hole" narrative has gotten way out of control. He was top 8 in the entire league for free throws last season.

    Yes, I know that watching him in real time there are a lot of moments where it seems like he can't finish around the rim through contact but it's not like he has trouble getting into the paint, at least not to the point where we should be wishing that he had more T-Ross in him in that regards.
    Last edited by Fully; Fri May 17th, 2013 at 12:51 PM.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I have serious doubts about Fields. For one thing, I hate his contract. And second, when I hear someone saying "If he starts playing like he did back in..." I usually tune them out immediately.

    Let me explain what I meant by adequately --

    I never said we wouldn't miss a beat if we replaced DeRozan with these two guys. And I don't mean addition by subtraction either. By adequately, I mean good enough. With DeRozan's ceiling, I would predict that a combination of Fields/Ross going forward should equal what we need from that position in 2 years. I don't see the point in spending $27M on two guys who do the exact same things. It's the same reason why Indiana should consider moving forward without Danny Granger with the emergence of Paul George. It doesn't mean that the Pacers have no use for Granger, they absolutely could use his help and the his added depth. But it's more that you have an opportunity to re-allocate the money to areas that will strengthen your team overall. I don't follow the Pacers closely enough to tell you what those areas are, but we have plenty of holes to fill.

    The team consisting of: JV, Amir, Gay, DeRozan and Lowry will win you about 38-40 games.

    A team consisting of JV, Starting PF on a good team, Gay, Fields/Ross and Lowry has the potential of winning a lot more.
    If our new GM can come in and do something creative that sends out DD and brings in a comparable SG who complements Gay better, I'm all for it. I'd just rather have a poorly paired DD and Gay than the even more poorly paired Fields/Ross and Gay. I'm interested in winning games, so I want a lineup that gives us the best shot. I like the lineup with DD in it more than I do the one without him but a replacement for Amir at PF.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I consider stats.nba.com a pretty good site. OffRtg and DefRtg differential:

    Dd -2.4
    Lf -0.8

    Landry gets his shot back and I don't think there is any comparison. It is a big if but even a damaged fields from a Rtg perspective is a better fit... That includes an awful stArt to season.

    To be clear not questioning talent, I am talking fit.

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I consider stats.nba.com a pretty good site. OffRtg and DefRtg differential:

    Dd -2.4
    Lf -0.8

    Landry gets his shot back and I don't think there is any comparison. It is a big if but even a damaged fields from a Rtg perspective is a better fit... That includes an awful stArt to season.

    To be clear not questioning talent, I am talking fit.
    I just really don't think Fields has NBA starter talent. His stats are terrible on basketball reference and watching him all season backs that up in my mind. If you really think he would be a better starter than DD then I don't know what to say except I vehemently disagree.

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I just really don't think Fields has NBA starter talent. His stats are terrible on basketball reference and watching him all season backs that up in my mind. If you really think he would be a better starter than DD then I don't know what to say except I vehemently disagree.
    He was the starter for two seasons on a playoff team and he was injured this past season.

    In my opinion he is a better starter for THE RAPTORS is all I am saying. Fit with gay.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  6. #86
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I just really don't think Fields has NBA starter talent. His stats are terrible on basketball reference and watching him all season backs that up in my mind. If you really think he would be a better starter than DD then I don't know what to say except I vehemently disagree.
    You can't judge fields off this season because he was injured the entire time.

  7. #87
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    If Fields returns to his old New-York self than maybe he's better fit for a starter. But if you're talking this season too than I would have to disagree. He could be a good "fit", but would it make them a better team and give them more wins than if Derozan were starting? Because if it wouldn't than how can you classify him as a better fit?

  8. #88
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    Don't judge Fields guys yet.. He's having hard time recovering from elbow surgery ( if we talk about shooting ). He needs to spend long long hours in the gym right now, and show that he's worth those money which BC gave him. We'll see if there is any progress about Landry next season

  9. #89
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    If Fields returns to his old New-York self than maybe he's better fit for a starter. But if you're talking this season too than I would have to disagree. He could be a good "fit", but would it make them a better team and give them more wins than if Derozan were starting? Because if it wouldn't than how can you classify him as a better fit?
    Statistics say yes.

  10. #90
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Don't judge Fields guys yet.. He's having hard time recovering from elbow surgery ( if we talk about shooting ). He needs to spend long long hours in the gym right now, and show that he's worth those money which BC gave him. We'll see if there is any progress about Landry next season
    People who have their ulnar nerve decompressed at the elbow are usually told that motor recovery can be variable. Basically, it wouldn't be shocking to his surgeon if he doesn't get all the way back to where he was, so we shouldn't be shocked either. I hope he does, I'm a huge fan of his game (pre Raptors).

  11. #91
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote coastal wrote: View Post
    ...I'm a huge fan of his game (pre Raptors).
    I'm a huge fan of his game during his stint here, except for his shooting. If he gets 80% of his stroke back he is a starter, no question. He brings a lot to the table outside of his shot. Better D, always cutting, makes the other team move to cover him, which cause openings and the opposing players move to adjust.

  12. #92
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    A few things bolded above:

    1) This is your 7th post. Not sure we've gone back and forth all the time.

    2) No one here is arguing. It is a forum for discussion. If you can think of better Raptor conversation pieces, please start a new thread.

    3) The Raptors won 23 games last season in a 65 game, lockout shortened season. The Raptors won 36 of 82 games this year. Winning percentage increased from .348 to .415.
    They won 34 games this season, not 36

  13. #93
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    Holy shit, I feel like smaller posts need to be written. I've already spent 30 minutes reading through 3 pages.

  14. #94
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He was the starter for two seasons on a playoff team and he was injured this past season.

    In my opinion he is a better starter for THE RAPTORS is all I am saying. Fit with gay.
    Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.

  15. #95
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.
    He was a starter on a playoff team for two years. You said he was not Nba starter talent. His talent is not the issue, the health of his elbow is but even with that hinderance he still has a better net on his off/der Rtg

    I am not into guessing percentages as I don't know. He showed improvement as the year progressed and Raps medical staff expect full recovery.

  16. #96
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.
    Decent?

    He made All-Rookie first team, and he beat out players like Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. But whatever.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  17. #97
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Talent should be an issue. Either way, trading Derozan and throwing Fields in the starting line-up is a pretty risky move. It could easily go horribly wrong.

  18. #98
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Decent?

    He made All-Rookie first team, and he beat out players like Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. But whatever.
    Dion Waiters is all rookie first team this year. I wouldn't call his season anything better than decent. Fields rookie year was good for a rookie but nothing extraordinary for a typical NBA player. He basically averaged 9 pts and 6 rebounds.

  19. #99
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    If Fields proves he can start that's one thing, but to give him that role by trading Demar before he earns that spot, and not replacing Demar with a better player is ridiculous. Too many ifs with Landry. This isn't even worth debating until we can get a better grasp of what Fields is post surgery.

  20. #100
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    If Fields proves he can start that's one thing, but to give him that role by trading Demar before he earns that spot, and not replacing Demar with a better player is ridiculous. Too many ifs with Landry. This isn't even worth debating until we can get a better grasp of what Fields is post surgery.
    Win shares through theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com say differently -even injured.

    The five best players is not always the best lineup.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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