Now I feel like I ruined the party lol I'm sorry.
Now I feel like I ruined the party lol I'm sorry.
DeRozan is an inefficient scorer who does little else to help the team. Fields wouldn't be needed to be anything more than the team's #5 scorer; he'd bring off-ball play, playmaking and rebounding to the offense, while bringing perimeter defense and rebounding to the defense. When it comes to those non-scoring areas, especially the non-statistical intangibles (ie: off ball play and defense), he's far superior to DeRozan - hence better "fit" and balance in an improved starting lineup. Fields is not as good a player as DeRozan, but he brings stuff to the starting lineup that is missing, while DeRozan is made redundant by Gay. If Fields comes back next season with an improved, reliable corner 3pt shot, that's just gravy.
Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon May 20th, 2013 at 02:05 AM.
Point of the matter is their I'd too much money tied up in the wing position. Someone is going to have to go. I can't see it being DD unless if BC is actually fired. I think Massai would keep DD too since he was apart of drafting him.
Fields starting over DeRozan? DeRozan coming off the bench? LOL. Are you people thinking when making these posts?
Fields BARELY played last season. DeRozan on the other hand averaged 18ppg. So why in the hell would the Raps put DD on the bench? so they can start Fields? why? to create more balance? lol really?
As for trading DeMar. If the Raptors move him(not gonna happen). Who's gonna start at the 2? Ross? yeah that would definitely make this team a lot better.
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So people want to replace DD because we need more 3 pt shooting in the starting lineup so they replace him with Fields a guy who can't shoot at all? Sounds about right.
Last edited by why_you_mad_tho; Mon May 20th, 2013 at 05:24 AM.
Wow, the insanity. So much misuse of stats/analytics. Little logic, and continuation of the kind of behavior that has plagued the Raptors. If the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and expecting different results MAYBE the Raptors should do something different. Instead of high player turnover EVERY YEAR a new coach EVERY OTHER YEAR maybe, JUST MAYBE they should grow from within. IF Demar has SO MUCH value, it is illogical to trade him. HERE'S another concept the RAPS have never followed...KEEP THE BEST PLAYERS!!! Bosh is one thing, but that team was only built for him for 2 years and then god knows what BC was trying to do with some of those moves. Bosh needed a SF and they never got him 1 after Garbo got hurt.
You don't like Demar, stop liking the team. Seriously, deal with it. He's a sidekick-- YES. He's WAY better than Fields is presently. It's not even up for debate. The stats you guys are using for comparison are majorly flawed! No stats should be used so isolated anyway!
Fields played for 1036 minutes (51 games), Demar played for 3011 minutes (EVERY GAME) I don't care what wizard mathematician you are, the variances in comparing these two players is WIDE. Fields played a third less games, two-third less minutes. Fields would have gotten garbage minutes to up his stats (which Demar would not) Demar would have way more minutes playing beside Andrea Bargnani-- one of the leagues worst Defensive Rating players. Fields would have played against more second units, Demar would have more difficult defensive assignments when the two were on the floor at the same time.
I could go on, and on...Statistically the BEST LINEUP the Raptors had was Gay, Lowry, Amir, JV, and DD. If you're going to play the numbers game you'll have to explain why if Fields is SO MUCH better than Demar why he wasn't a part of the best lineup the team put forth. Personally, I would rather wait. See what Fields is, see what moves the team makes and then make judgements-- but that's me. However, if you think the Raptors are going to shake up the starting lineup in the off season I'm fairly confident you guys are in for a rude awakening. When you consider money Bargnani can only be traded by himself. MAYBE you could add Ross, JV, or Lucas. Some of the suggestions of adding 5-9 million dollar contracts to a trade with the new tax system, when the trade partner would be taking on 11 million dollars is SILLY!!! Highschool economics. It's called 'opportunity cost.' Jeesh.
Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon May 20th, 2013 at 07:35 AM.
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
Basketball has clear winners every night --except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.
fields is mediocre sums him up completely. There arent many good 2s in the league, if we move DeMar its Ross's job to fill, not fields.
I'm so glad none of us are actual GM's.
I've been busy and couldn't join in, but great exchanges and discussion, fellas.
Point 1: Fields is a bust of a signing. He got our offer as part of a larger strategy and fell thru and left us with major egg on the face. He's 1/3 thru his horrible contract that he didn't earn and never should have got. It was a laughable move from the beginning. He's not a rotation player on a contender. He'll have a middling NBA career and make no meaningful contributions anywhere. Anything he gives us should be considered an unexpected bonus.
Point 2: If your giving Fields a pass due to his arm injury, then I think you need to do the same with Andrea. His arm injuries we even worse, and his offensive game is even more dependent on his shot going down.
"Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
This thread has devolved into roster tweaks that will net us nothing close to contendership. If the boss believes the above quote, then the best way to get a championship level roster is to tank and draft well. Our 5 year lotto streak makes this unacceptable to many, and I fear that we're steering into Atlanta/Milwaukee type relevant irrelevancy.
Just look at Memphis for an example of a contender that didn't draft their way there, but did so through trade and free agent signings.
The only lotto picks on the roster are Mike Conley, Ed Davis, and Jerryd Bayless. Davis and Bayless come off the bench and aren't key pieces of that team, and they also were acquired through trade. Conley is the only lotto pick that Memphis actually drafted. So, they clearly did not tank and build through the draft to get where they are.
Indiana, another team that didn't tank and build through the draft. Miami, another team that didn't tank and build through the draft. San Antonio, outside of the year they tanked for Duncan, have always been in the playoffs, so clearly they didn't tank to build that roster. When SA tanked for Duncan, there was no lottery, and they were guaranteed the first pick. If that was the case, then maybe you try to tank for Wiggins (unfortunately at least 5 other teams would try that as well), but that isn't the case, so forget about tanking. Tanking does not build championship teams.
Miami: 1 lotto pick starter (Dwayne Wade, pick 5)
New York: 0 lotto pick starters
Indiana: 1 lotto pick starter (Paul George, pick 10)
Chicago: 1 lotto pick starter (Joakim Noah, pick 9)
Boston: 1 lotto pick starter (Paul Pierce, pick 10)
Atlanta: 1 lotto pick starter (Al Horford, pick 3)
Brooklyn: 1 lotto pick starter (Brook Lopez, pick 10)
Milwaukee: 1 lotto pick starter (Brandon Jennings, pick 10)
San Antonio: 1 lotto pick starter (Tim Duncan, pick 1)
Memphis: 1 lotto pick starter (Mike Conley, pick 4)
Oklahoma City: 2 lotto pick starters (Kevin Durant, pick 2; Russel Westbrook, pick 4)
Golden State: 3 lotto pick starters (Stephen Curry, pick 7; Klay Thompson, pick 11; Harrison Barnes, pick 7)
Denver: 0 lotto pick starters
LA Clippers: 1 lotto pick starter (Blake Griffin, pick 1)
LA Lakers: 1 lotto pick starter (Kobe Bryant, pick 13)
Houston: 0 lotto pick starters
I think that fully debunks the idea that a championship team is built through tanking and getting lotto picks. At best you could say you need one pretty good lotto pick, but it clearly doesn't even need to be a high one. We already have 4 lotto picks on our roster that we drafted (Bargs, DD, JV, and Ross), and JV certainly qualifies as at least one good one. Based on the above, we don't need any more tanking for lotto picks.
I like the article by Ziller about The affordability of an elite NBA defense.
Apparently you don't need to be an attractive market or even sign big name free agents. It helps not focusing on points but on defense. Of course, there is a Rudy Gay mention:There are a number of interesting notes about the NBA's four conference finals participants including ...
- Three represent traditional small markets, or at least cities considered to be in the small market coalition. (San Antonio is top 10 in the United States in population, but its media market is ranked much lower.)
- The teams finished Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 7 in team defense over the regular season. They were Nos. 2, 7, 17 and 20 in offense.
- Three of the teams were outside the top 10 in payroll this season. (I'll let you guess which one was the exception.) The teams ranked Nos. 4, 12, 22 and 25 in payroll, per HoopsHype.
Defense is cheaper than offense in the NBA. (The exception is at center, where even defense-skewed players are pricey.) Scoring is the top determinant for individual salary; if you have a couple of 22-point scorers, you're going to be outlaying a lot of money for offense. Some of the top defenders, though, make a pittance. Consider Tony Allen, the Grizzlies' ace perimeter defender. He's made All-Defense three straight years, including the first team in the past two seasons. He's wrapping up a three-year, $9.5 million contract. The Grizzlies' old top scorer, Rudy Gay, who was traded in January, made $16.4 million just this season to score 20 points a game.
And you still have not elaborated why the stats you chose to use on an island are the only stats to follow. Just sayin'.Personally, I would rather wait.
[QUOTE=Matt52;208626]There have been a lot of stats used in this thread by a lot of people. Personally I think win share and net rating of offrtg and DefRtg are pretty much all encompassing the game from a statistical perspective but that is just my opinion. I certainly put more stock in them than ppg.
And where have I said anything about trading dd for scraps? Again misconception of my stance and the point I continue to make - which I obviously continue to fail at.
Even when Kleiza's contract is Amnestied, we'll be at 57M of committed salaries heading into 2014-2015, and that's without any point guards on the roster. We are literally cash strapped for the next two seasons with the only hope of the team getting better via crossing our fingers that JV, Ross and Acy will turn into something.
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