View Poll Results: What word best describes your preference moving forward for the Raptors?

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  • Tanker

    12 31.58%
  • Tweaker

    26 68.42%
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Thread: Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

  1. #561
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    We can agree to disagree about this. Raptors after all have had a #1 pick. Go through the number one picks of the last 15 years and count the flameouts, not to mention the players who never became franchise players. Then count the number of guys picked in the top 5. How many of them turned into franchise talents? Now how many all stars came from picks #8 and lower?

    A lot of top five picks paid off for their teams. But the Raps have had two #4 picks that paid off for a while then left the franchise in worse shape then before. So much for knowable risk. But if I am working with a guy every day, and that guy is putting in the work, I know that guy is going to get better. And if he is unwilling to work, I'm trading his ass and finding someone who is willing to buy in and commit.
    Interesting that you bring up this point, as I remember reading an interesting Tweet from one of the guys on ESPN last week, who brought up a quirky stat about #1 overall picks. Since 1986, only 2 #1 overall draft picks have ever won the NBA championship with the team that drafted them - David Robinson & Tim Duncan.

    Even if the Raptors manage to successfully tank next season AND get lucky in the draft lottery, it's still far from even being in the same ballpark as a guarantee, that long-term success - let alone an NBA championship - will come the Raptors' way. Food for thought for the pro-tankers out there.

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  3. #562
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Is "tanking" only reserved for the #1 selection? That is a fools choice with the lottery process...which was precisely put in place to make it a non-guarantee. One would be better off kidnapping Gilbert's son and having him represent your team at the lottery. In a draft such as the 2014 the only sane and logical strategy for a team like the Raptors is to take the road Boston is doing...putting your team in the best position to draft high with a selection of picks not just next year but the next 4 years. That is a strategy not a tanking. The rules of the NBA force this process to be considered. Getting a pick in the top 3-4 will net any team a very good player. I of course prefer this course because of the opinion what we have is not a very good collection of assets and one of our youngest is also one with a very good ceiling (JV). If the Bledsoe rumors are true MU thinks so too...he is willing to ultimately let Lowry go.

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  5. #563
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    One would be better off kidnapping Gilbert's son and having him represent your team at the lottery.
    HAH Nominate this for Quote of the year.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

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  7. #564
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Josh Lewenberg ‏@JLew1050 5m
    "Have heard that amnestying Bargnani, at least for now, is off the table for Raps. Multiple teams have expressed interest in trading for him"


    Excellent

  8. #565
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Barg close to being dealt to New York for Camby, Novak, 1st rd pick and a 2nd rd pick!!

  9. #566
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack 2m:
    RT @HowardBeckNYT: Knicks appear close to acquiring Andrea Bargnani from Toronto. NY offering Camby, Novak, 2 picks (1st rd/2nd rd).

  10. #567
    Raptors Republic Rookie brickwall281's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Barg close to being dealt to New York for Camby, Novak, 1st rd pick and a 2nd rd pick!!
    You're joking!

  11. #568
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    Quote brickwall281 wrote: View Post
    You're joking!
    It's all over twitter. it's pretty close to happening

  12. #569
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Holly MacKenzie ‏@stackmack 2m:
    RT @HowardBeckNYT: Knicks appear close to acquiring Andrea Bargnani from Toronto. NY offering Camby, Novak, 2 picks (1st rd/2nd rd).
    2 picks for Bargs, and a shooting specialist? That would be a pretty good deal.

  13. #570
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Also one of the better opportunities for Bargs. Good pairing with Chandler. Can actually play at the 3 pt line, delivering entry passes to Melo in the post and waiting for kickouts. Can play the pick and pop with Felton.

  14. #571
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    so...adding these tea leaves to the picture....are we tanking or tooling?

  15. #572
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    2 picks for Bargs, and a shooting specialist? That would be a pretty good deal.
    Calling Novak a "shooting specialist" underscores the fact that he literally has no game besides shooting threes. Smart teams just guard him and keep him from shooting and he becomes a liability on the floor. He is a very limited roleplayer at best, but if he can help DeMar and TRoss work on their shots he's worth it.

  16. #573
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    so...adding these tea leaves to the picture....are we tanking or tooling?
    WE'RE RETOOLING: See, Masai just chopped off some useless salary and gave us room to maneuver! Getting rid of Bargs makes the team better because we don't have him!

    WE'RE TANKING: If Masai can get this much for Bargs, what can he get us for a GOOD player?

  17. #574
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    WE'RE RETOOLING: See, Masai just chopped off some useless salary and gave us room to maneuver! Getting rid of Bargs makes the team better because we don't have him!

    WE'RE TANKING: If Masai can get this much for Bargs, what can he get us for a GOOD player?
    Colangelo building towards the future is not trading one pick in one draft.

    Masai is aquiring as many picks as possible.

    I am certain we would be giving these future second rounders and no first would be coming back if bc made this trade or he would have brought in amare and summer hyped the new knee procedure as magical

  18. #575
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    Colangelo building towards the future is not trading one pick in one draft.

    Masai is aquiring as many picks as possible.

    I am certain we would be giving these future second rounders and no first would be coming back if bc made this trade or he would have brought in amare and summer hyped the new knee procedure as magical
    That's as much to do with GMing style as it is with strategy. BC avoided drafting whenever possible; Masai loves to draft. Neither strategy is wrong per se: after all, the Lakers and Knicks have a long tradition of trading picks for talent. The problem was that BC was a shitty judge of talent.

  19. #576
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Default For Those Of You Who Are In Favour Of Tanking

    So, we tank. Get the first overall pick. Draft Wiggins. He lives up to what he's supposed to. Than What?

    If you haven't planned past these above steps.. Allow me to show you what happens...

    Lebron James happens.

    And by that I mean you can't surround him with good players and he leaves.

    Or wait..here's an example, that resonates closer to home. Chris Bosh happens.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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  21. #577
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    Let's also make sure we never sign any good players in free agency. They might leave if it doesn't work out.

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  23. #578
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    So, we tank. Get the first overall pick. Draft Wiggins. He lives up to what he's supposed to. Than What?

    If you haven't planned past these above steps.. Allow me to show you what happens...

    Lebron James happens.

    And by that I mean you can't surround him with good players and he leaves.

    Or wait..here's an example, that resonates closer to home. Chris Bosh happens.
    Bad examples.

    Both teams were horribly mismanaged and had no flexibility to make meaningful additions.

    Cap space and exceptions were not used to secure value contracts.

    Trades were shortsighted and each trade made the flexibility less and less.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  24. #579
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Bad examples.

    Both teams were horribly mismanaged and had no flexibility to make meaningful additions.

    Cap space and exceptions were not used to secure value contracts.

    Trades were shortsighted and each trade made the flexibility less and less.
    How are they bad examples for what I'm trying to prove?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  25. #580
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    What are you trying to prove? That with bad management a high draft pick will not save the team? Or that having a house with no roof has its drawbacks?

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