View Poll Results: What word best describes your preference moving forward for the Raptors?

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  • Tanker

    12 31.58%
  • Tweaker

    26 68.42%
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Thread: Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

  1. #741
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There is a backlog at PF.

    It will be interesting to see how he fixes it.
    I think it's more about watching it play out than needing to fix it. When you're cash-strapped with millions of dollars spent in one position, then sure, something needs to be done to fix it. Back in the day when we had Ed Davis, Reggie Evans, Bargnani and Amir Johnson playing the same position -- that situation needed to fixed because we had about $21M devoted to 4 players playing the same position, and not one of them was a legitimate starter.

    I'm not sure how much Earl Clark got, but I get the sense that between him, Bennett and Thompson they're looking at just over half of the $21M barrel that we were staring into.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  2. #742
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Absolutely. Again, I'm not advocating this is great team by any means, or even good, but the flexibility is an absolute dream, and they've got a boatload of still very movable assets which means if things don't work out they still can't still wheel and deal.

    It's a gorgeous situation. That Bynum contract was the icing on the cake for me, what a beautiful contract with almost no risk involved.. only $6M guaranteed out of $24M! If he stays healthy (a huge if), he's going to be a 20/10/2 guy, and if not, see ya later! It's almost like Grant took a page out of the NFL rulebook with that contract with so little of it guaranteed.
    And they have about $5M in cap room right now!

    Watch out for MWP in Cleveland.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #743
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Tanker PORN:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...art/index.html

    Warning: might NSFW for the hardcore tankers among us..... jk

    A tease.......

    It's a thought that has passed through the minds of several NBA executives already, most likely ones from teams destined to have lousy seasons. Phoenix, Orlando, Charlotte, Boston, Philadelphia and Utah are all rebuilding and figure to be jockeying for prime lottery position with as many ping pong balls as they can get. Tanking is an annual rite of passage for NBA bottom-feeders but next season, said an Eastern Conference executive, "it will happen earlier than most."

    Why? Because the 2014 draft is good. Really good. As ho-hum as most executives were about the '13 draft, they are that positively giddy about the '14 one. Ask execs about prospective franchise players in last month's draft and they will struggle to come up with one. Ask them about next year's and they will rattle off a list of five or six before taking a breath.

    "This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft," said a Western Conference GM, referring to the class headlined by LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. "There is a cluster of cornerstone, All-Star level players at the top. These are guys that if they were in this year's draft, they all would have gone at the top."

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...#ixzz2Ys6lvK44
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #744
    Raptors Republic Starter connected's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Tanker PORN:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...art/index.html

    Warning: might NSFW for the hardcore tankers among us..... jk

    A tease.......
    I don't want to tank but I was watching Andrew Wiggins highlights this morning ..... that was a bad idea....

    I think he is the lightning in a bottle type player

  5. #745
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    If the likes of Charlotte and Cleveland hasn't taught us anything, trying to get to #1 every year is a risky proposition. I understand that the 2014 draft class is perhaps 8-deep. I get that. However, Colangelo made sure that we DON'T have flexibility. If Rudy wasn't acquired last year and Demar was traded to move into the 2013 draft w/ expiring contracts, we can sure consider winning 23 games or less.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  6. #746
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    If the likes of Charlotte and Cleveland hasn't taught us anything, trying to get to #1 every year is a risky proposition. I understand that the 2014 draft class is perhaps 8-deep. I get that. However, Colangelo made sure that we DON'T have flexibility. If Rudy wasn't acquired last year and Demar was traded to move into the 2013 draft w/ expiring contracts, we can sure consider winning 23 games or less.
    I disagree some what. I think both Cleveland and Charlotte have done exactly what any smart team in their position should be doing. Tanking while playing their young players heavy minutes. Only difference between them and us are we have a few more wins than them and we have a lot less cap space. Mean while they continue to stock pile young assets and put themselves in good position to capitalize in free agency and with trades. At the end of the day neither they nor us are contenders but they have a lot more options and a lot more to look forward to. If there is any negative that I can take away from Cleveland and Charlotte, its that they aren't capitalizing in the lottery as they should be, but that has more to do with a crappy scouting team than their tanking philosophy.

  7. #747
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Pretty much all the Raptors have is young players. Proponents of tanking are saying they ditch that talent for nothing if need be. That's a bad idea.

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  9. #748
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Pretty much all the Raptors have is young players. Proponents of tanking are saying they ditch that talent for nothing if need be. That's a bad idea.
    Most definitely not.

    You keep Ross and JV and see what the rest fetches.

    If Bargnani can yield 3 draft picks and one useful player then surely DD/Gay/Lowry can return something of value.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  11. #749
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Pretty much all the Raptors have is young players. Proponents of tanking are saying they ditch that talent for nothing if need be. That's a bad idea.
    I don't think I've read a single poster who wants to give away our talent.

  12. #750
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I don't think I've read a single poster who wants to give away our talent.
    I can't speak to all of it, but I recall people wanting to give away Rudy for 2 expiring scrubs.

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  14. #751
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Most definitely not.

    You keep Ross and JV and see what the rest fetches.

    If Bargnani can yield 3 draft picks and one useful player then surely DD/Gay/Lowry can return something of value.
    I don't understand this "keep Ross" mantra that keeps going around. Wtf has he proven at the NBA level? The guy sucks.

    DeMar is only a year older and is a far superior player. Nothing wrong with keeping his 9M on the books and having him be a part of the core going forwards.

  15. #752
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I don't understand this "keep Ross" mantra that keeps going around. Wtf has he proven at the NBA level? The guy sucks.

    DeMar is only a year older and is a far superior player. Nothing wrong with keeping his 9M on the books and having him be a part of the core going forwards.
    Really now. He is exactly the type you want to keep in the scenario mentioned. A first year, potential undetermined, low cost, low risk player who did not get the best developmental handling imo in his first year. You will concede that heis crazy athletic, right? Andhe is a bit under weight? I dont believe the scout amongst us scribblers can tell after his 1 season how he turns out as a NBA player. Patience please.

  16. #753
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I don't think I've read a single poster who wants to give away our talent.
    You haven't read any cap dump posts? They're a dime a dozen.

  17. #754
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I'm all for tanking and it's not specifically for Wiggins. A guy like Jabari Parker or Randle would have been the top pick in many of the past drafts.

    The top end talent in this draft is ridiculous. If pretty much everyone declares like they think they will you're talking a chance to get a shot at 5, maybe 6 franchise talents.

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  19. #755
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    Haven't u heard? Tanking is bad karma....just use "rebuilding" as the term and all will be well....less connotation with the dark side.

  20. #756
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I'm all for tanking and it's not specifically for Wiggins. A guy like Jabari Parker or Randle would have been the top pick in many of the past drafts.

    The top end talent in this draft is ridiculous. If pretty much everyone declares like they think they will you're talking a chance to get a shot at 5, maybe 6 franchise talents.
    I gave you a thumbs up but only if the pieces that would create more Ws returned fair and real value.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  21. #757
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I gave you a thumbs up but only if the pieces that would create more Ws returned fair and real value.
    What do you mean?

  22. #758
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    From what I've read this draft is top heavy and deep. I would try to acquire a pick in 2014. I know teams are being very tight with trading any 2014 picks, but what teams that have multiple picks in 2014? For instance Charlotte owns Detroit's 2014 pick (top 8 protected). What sort of package do you think would bring that pick to us?

    Right now I'm hearing this draft is 8 deep for All-Star talent. If Raptors could get in there at, lets say 10-12 with Detroit's, perhaps we could find that missing piece.

  23. #759
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    What do you mean?
    I agree with what you are saying but I'm not up for trading DD/Lowry/Gay just for cap space. Proven young talent and 1st round picks need to be coming back.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  25. #760
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I was going to make a new thread but essentially this is the same old drivel on rebuild vs. retool so here we are.

    Video after Novak press conference:



    A couple of responses from Ujiri stand out. Now only a fool (yes, that is me) would try to garner any meaning from his answers - the man should work for Brinks given the security of his vault. The thing is, and this is why I am really impressed with Ujiri right now despite the utter frustration, one could interpret his comments any way.



    6:20: "Take it as it comes. Owe it to see what we have on our team instead of doing something stupid, you know, like, quickly. If something reasonable comes our way and will help Raptors then we'll do it but other than this, this is our team and we'll keep plugging away."

    Retool says: We are good enough to compete so lets go compete.

    Rebuild says: Ideally we are just waiting to see where other teams draft picks are likely to fall. However, if another team makes an incredible offer we'll just take it now.


    12:50: "For me patience is the key. We all have to be patient. We have a good window for a couple of years here. Sometimes you can't just react."

    Retool says: We've got Amir, Rudy, and Kyle in their prime. DD entering his. JV developing and making big strides. Ross is a talent just waiting to be tapped. There are solid role players in Hansbrough and Novak. Landry has the hottest wife to be ever. We all good.

    Rebuild says: That window I'm talking about is not for our current guys outside the players on rookie deals. We have 3 years before we have to extend Jonas. In those three years we have to acquire as much talent as we can. Right now other GMs trying to do non-consensual back door violations on me. I'm going to wait until the season unfolds and GMs like Detroit, Charlotte, or Cleveland get desperate with their new coaches and owners demanding post season appearances to give me a proposal that makes me sit back, smile, and say, "Throw in some cash and we're done." Listen, I got 3 picks, one first rounder!, for Bargnani. Imagine what I can do as the February trade deadline approaches with DeRozan, Gay, and Lowry.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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