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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • Primer wrote: View Post
    Bottom line for me is if Fields is our starting SG come the beginning of the season we are fucked. You wanna replace DD in the starting lineup, it has to be with somebody significantly better than Fields. How many starting 2's are there in the league with no offensive game? Tony Allen is the best example I can think of, but he is a defensive specialist who is on another level defensively than Fields. Fields is a mediocre defender and Allen is elite.
    Not sure how that claim can be made without knowing what DD hypothetically returned.

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    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Wait a second I thought sample size mattered?

      And who said they did not like DD? You guys get all hyped up and emotional in your thinking and reasoning. You are missing the forest through the trees.
      Actually, I'm not emotionally involved (look at all my posts-- totally fine with moving Demar for the right piece). Also, you highlighted the wrong part:

      Personally, I would rather wait.
      And you still have not elaborated why the stats you chose to use on an island are the only stats to follow. Just sayin'.

      Comment


      • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
        Actually, I'm not emotionally involved (look at all my posts-- totally fine with moving Demar for the right piece). Also, you highlighted the wrong part:



        And you still have not elaborated why the stats you chose to use on an island are the only stats to follow. Just sayin'.
        There have been a lot of stats used in this thread by a lot of people. Personally I think win share and net rating of offrtg and DefRtg are pretty much all encompassing the game from a statistical perspective but that is just my opinion. I certainly put more stock in them than ppg.

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        • [QUOTE=Matt52;208626]There have been a lot of stats used in this thread by a lot of people. Personally I think win share and net rating of offrtg and DefRtg are pretty much all encompassing the game from a statistical perspective but that is just my opinion. I certainly put more stock in them than ppg.


          And where have I said anything about trading dd for scraps? Again misconception of my stance and the point I continue to make - which I obviously continue to fail at.

          Comment


          • Primer wrote: View Post
            Bottom line for me is if Fields is our starting SG come the beginning of the season we are fucked. You wanna replace DD in the starting lineup, it has to be with somebody significantly better than Fields. How many starting 2's are there in the league with no offensive game? Tony Allen is the best example I can think of, but he is a defensive specialist who is on another level defensively than Fields. Fields is a mediocre defender and Allen is elite.
            I'm not sure if you realize that we are f*cked either way. I guess it depends on how much making the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round means to you. From a big picture standpoint, I'd much rather have someone else paying DeRozan $9.5M to do exactly what Rudy Gay does already. We have $9M devoted to Ross and Fields, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense to find out what we have in them than watching mini Rudy Gay pull in just as much while those other fight for scrap minutes.

            Even when Kleiza's contract is Amnestied, we'll be at 57M of committed salaries heading into 2014-2015, and that's without any point guards on the roster. We are literally cash strapped for the next two seasons with the only hope of the team getting better via crossing our fingers that JV, Ross and Acy will turn into something.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • Crossroad

              NoBan wrote: View Post
              This thread has devolved into roster tweaks that will net us nothing close to contendership. If the boss believes the above quote, then the best way to get a championship level roster is to tank and draft well. Our 5 year lotto streak makes this unacceptable to many, and I fear that we're steering into Atlanta/Milwaukee type relevant irrelevancy.
              Tanking is no more a proven method than trying to right the ship while keeping integrity.

              No GM is going to want to come to Toronto to lose for three or four years and then MAYBE resurface out of it. That could be a career killer right there. Who of worth would find that appealing?

              Comment


              • ebrian wrote: View Post
                I'm not sure if you realize that we are f*cked either way. I guess it depends on how much making the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round means to you. From a big picture standpoint, I'd much rather have someone else paying DeRozan $9.5M to do exactly what Rudy Gay does already. We have $9M devoted to Ross and Fields, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense to find out what we have in them than watching mini Rudy Gay pull in just as much while those other fight for scrap minutes.

                Even when Kleiza's contract is Amnestied, we'll be at 57M of committed salaries heading into 2014-2015, and that's without any point guards on the roster. We are literally cash strapped for the next two seasons with the only hope of the team getting better via crossing our fingers that JV, Ross and Acy will turn into something.
                I think it'd be smarter to give Ross another year to develop while we give a full season to the Lowry/DD/Gay/Amir/JV lineup. If Ross develops at a normal rate he should be ready to start in year 3, and DD would become much more expendable. Now that BC is gone though I'm hoping we get Ujiri and he comes in a does something that blows my mind.

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                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  And where have I said anything about trading dd for scraps? Again misconception of my stance and the point I continue to make - which I obviously continue to fail at.
                  You don't continue to fail. It seems like it 'cause people WANT to see this as a Demar Vs Fields thing.

                  I've mentioned earlier that I'd like to see Demar traded as long as a legitimate starting PF is acquired. In other words, if Amir continues to be the starter I'd rather see Demar remain due to his offensive contribution. Demar for Millsap(S&T) sounds perfectly fair to me. Not that I'm against another way of acquiring Millsap.

                  However I'm against starting Fields. I prefer Ross as starter. I think his ability to shoot the 3 pointer would be very valuable as Gay doesn't shoot a good 3 pointer.
                  Attitude Is A Choice.

                  Comment


                  • Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                    You don't continue to fail. It seems like it 'cause people WANT to see this as a Demar Vs Fields thing.

                    I've mentioned earlier that I'd like to see Demar traded as long as a legitimate starting PF is acquired. In other words, if Amir continues to be the starter I'd rather see Demar remain due to his offensive contribution. Demar for Millsap(S&T) sounds perfectly fair to me. Not that I'm against another way of acquiring Millsap.

                    However I'm against starting Fields. I prefer Ross as starter. I think his ability to shoot the 3 pointer would be very valuable as Gay doesn't shoot a good 3 pointer.
                    Gay is a better 3 point shooter than Ross.

                    Rudy gay was 1.3/4.0 for .336 3pt%
                    Terrence Ross was 0.9/2.7 for .332 3pt%

                    On his career Gay is 1/3 for .343 3pt%

                    Ross has a ways to go to be a better 3 point shooter than Gay.

                    Comment


                    • Primer wrote: View Post
                      Gay is a better 3 point shooter than Ross.
                      Gay the seasoned veteran, FOR NOW, is a better 3 point shooter than Ross the Rookie as far as NBA statistics are concerned.

                      When sheer talent in considered, one shouldn't even consider comparing the two. Ross is a much superior 3 point shooter.
                      Attitude Is A Choice.

                      Comment


                      • I feel like the Rudy/DD combo can work and could be efficient. Lowry is going to have to sacrifice his shots and focus more on the other aspects of the game. Like he was doing it during the end of the season.
                        @Chr1st1anL

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          I feel like the Rudy/DD combo can work and could be efficient. Lowry is going to have to sacrifice his shots and focus more on the other aspects of the game. Like he was doing it during the end of the season.
                          The only thing it can work out is if one or both of them develop a 3pt shot. Btw, Rudy Gay just 3 years ago shot 40% from 3pt range. After that? 31% 31% and 34%. Not sure what happened but 3pt has always been part of his game.

                          As for DeRozan, not sure if he can develop that part of his game. But he's still young, a gym rat. He said after this season that he wants to improve his 3pt game this summer. So we'll see.....

                          So like i said, i want to see a FULL season of Gay and DeRozan before i make a decision.
                          Mamba Mentality

                          Comment


                          • Primer wrote: View Post
                            I think it'd be smarter to give Ross another year to develop while we give a full season to the Lowry/DD/Gay/Amir/JV lineup. If Ross develops at a normal rate he should be ready to start in year 3, and DD would become much more expendable. Now that BC is gone though I'm hoping we get Ujiri and he comes in a does something that blows my mind.
                            I'd rather develop him now than stash him away another year like we just did. With a healthy Fields he's going to play even less minutes that last year, and he was 19th in minutes played amongst his fellow rookies last year. Developing rookies at a normal rate makes sense for playoffs teams, not teams that averaged 30 wins over the past 5 years.
                            your pal,
                            ebrian

                            Comment


                            • TRex wrote: View Post
                              The only thing it can work out is if one or both of them develop a 3pt shot. Btw, Rudy Gay just 3 years ago shot 40% from 3pt range. After that? 31% 31% and 34%. Not sure what happened but 3pt has always been part of his game.

                              As for DeRozan, not sure if he can develop that part of his game. But he's still young, a gym rat. He said after this season that he wants to improve his 3pt game this summer. So we'll see.....

                              So like i said, i want to see a FULL season of Gay and DeRozan before i make a decision.
                              What happened to gay? He injured his shoulder.

                              Comment


                              • Gay had vision correction surgery right after the season.

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