View Poll Results: What word best describes your preference moving forward for the Raptors?

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  • Tanker

    12 32.43%
  • Tweaker

    25 67.57%
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Thread: Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

  1. #901
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Default Add Michael Grange to the list

    Kelly, Arthur, and now Grange:

    And in the NBA the correlation between draft position and professional success is very strong.

    In the past 10 years the only four players on the all-NBA first team not taken in the top five of the draft were Kobe Bryant (13th in 1996), Amar’e Stoudemire (ninth in 2002), Dirk Nowitzki (ninth in 1998) and Steve Nash (15th in 1996). And in each case there were specific circumstances that explained why they were outliers: Bryant was among the first wave of the preps-to-pros trend, when it was still deemed a risk to take a high school player; Stoudemire was a high schooler picked during the backlash of that trend; Nowitzki was drafted when taking Europeans so high was a bit novel; and Nash was a small-college star who emerged from the “hinterlands” of Vancouver Island.

    Of the 150 spots on all-NBA first, second or third teams in the past decade, only 12 players have earned one who weren’t lottery picks.

    The Raptors know this all too well. The franchise has only had five playoff teams in 18 seasons, and each of them was built around an All-NBA performer—either Vince Carter or Chris Bosh, both of whom were taken in the top five of the draft.

    Needless to say the Raptors as built don’t have a serious candidate for an all-star selection, let alone players capable of earning All-NBA recognition.

    So is the great dismantling at hand? How many more team parties can the current edition of the Raptors have together?

    As their bosses were watching the spectacle Tuesday night in Chicago the real question is what the Raptors should do to have a chance to add the kind of elite talent that was on display as a foundation piece for their troubled franchise.

    The answer was likely obvious to anyone watching: Whatever it takes.


    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/w...g-tantalizing/
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  3. #902
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    That Mike K. can be such a sanctimonius ----. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand the profound real operational differences between the college recruitment process and the equivalent pro draft one of gathering talent....that in his world if his university werent among the cream he would not get the consensus all-americans considering his school while of in the pros one has to be bad in order to acquire the same great talent. There are also no trades in college...what you recruit is what you play with and I wonder what he has to say about all the violations which occur (under the table) to enable the recruitment.

  4. #903
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    That Mike K. can be such a sanctimonius ----. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand the profound real operational differences between the college recruitment process and the equivalent pro draft one of gathering talent....that in his world if his university werent among the cream he would not get the consensus all-americans considering his school while of in the pros one has to be bad in order to acquire the same great talent. There are also no trades in college...what you recruit is what you play with and I wonder what he has to say about all the violations which occur (under the table) to enable the recruitment.
    I was thinking the same thing yesterday. Wonder if Coach K would change his tune if we has coaching at UTEP (for example) instead of Duke.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #904
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Some good quotes from here to add fuel to the tank vs. no tank debate:

    In most cases, the draft lottery isn’t a quick fix. It’s quicksand, grabbing an organization by the foot and slowly sucking it down.

    So fans who think the Bulls should tank the season and get in the lottery for a stellar draft class in June should think again. It’s a good concept on paper that often leads to long suffering.

    Of the 30 NBA teams, 20 have spent at least four consecutive seasons in the lottery since 1990. Thirteen have spent five or more years in the lottery. Once a team enters the lottery in back-to-back seasons, the average stay is about 4.2 years.
    Even general manager Gar Forman acknowledged that this upcoming draft could fall under the ‘‘special’’ label.

    “There is a lot of talk about it, but you can never . . . people say good draft, bad draft, strong draft, deep draft, top-heavy, whatever,’’ Forman said. “Our feeling is that if you do your work, there’s always value in the draft, always opportunities there.’’

    That’s what the Bulls have counted on recently, whether it was landing Taj Gibson with the 26th pick in the 2009 draft or Jimmy Butler with the 30th pick in 2011. Even rookie Tony Snell, who was the 20th pick last June, is paying dividends lately, starting for an injured Butler.

    The Bulls’ mentality is they can land quality starters and rotation guys and not have to be in the lottery to do it.

    That’s why Forman and executive vice president John Paxson covet draft picks and also understand that prying picks from other organizations isn’t easy anymore.

    “You do get that sense,’’ Forman said. “It’s hard for me to speak on every team, but from the Bulls’ standpoint, we have always put great value in the draft and draft picks. Historically, it’s very rare that we trade a first-round draft pick because we value getting good young players into our organization and we value scouting and feel like we’ve had some level of success, not only when we’ve drafted high but when we’ve drafted in the 20s.

    “So there’s always great value in draft picks.’’
    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baske...for-bulls.html


    I find this line of thinking very appropriate..... once you have your franchise talent.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #905
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Just re-read a bunch of this thread.

    The "keep it together" crowd has gotten a lot quieter in recent weeks.

  7. #906
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Just re-read a bunch of this thread.

    The "keep it together" crowd has gotten a lot quieter in recent weeks.

    And if the Raps win their next 4 you'll hear them again while the tanks grind to a halt - lol

    Everyone is swinging their d!ck when very recent history shows they are right. Remember after the Philly game? Utah?


    This is just a bad team - bottom line.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #907
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And if the Raps win their next 4 you'll hear them again while the tanks grind to a halt - lol

    Everyone is swinging their d!ck when very recent history shows they are right. Remember after the Philly game? Utah?


    This is just a bad team - bottom line.
    I now have a new visual for how Raps fans watch games from home. Thanks Matt
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

  9. #908
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    The grand daddy of tanking threads deserves a bump!

    Bill Simmons presents 10 steps to tanking perfection.

    See where Raps went wrong!

    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nb...ng-perfection/

    Step 1: Trade your best player for future assets if you don’t feel like he can be the best player on a championship team.

    Step 2: Don’t sign anyone who can help you, even if it means dipping under the salary-cap floor and going down as the cheapest NBA team ever.

    Step 3: Don’t get discouraged if you win early.

    Step 4: If you can’t get fair value for your trade assets, trade them anyway.

    Step 5: If you can affect the playoff race just to be dicks, even better.

    Step 6: Trade for Byron Mullens.

    Step 7: Come up with a fake injury for any good player and/or milk the recovery time of any existing injury.

    Step 8: Give tons of minutes to young players who aren’t ready for them, and come up with as many doomed/goofy/ridiculous lineups as possible.

    Step 9: Make a big deal about discounting next season’s tickets as a thank-you to your loyal season-ticket holders who paid full price for an 82-game season that you just threw away.

    Step 10: Weigh the benefits of self-sabotage against the long-term damage to your most valuable asset.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  11. #909
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    Yeh, trading for Byron Mullens really put icing on the cake to their epic tank job.
    I think Philly are at step 11 though now

    Step 11: endure 20 consecutive losses at an average margin of 19.1 PPG.

  12. #910
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    Yeh, trading for Byron Mullens really put icing on the cake to their epic tank job.
    I think Philly are at step 11 though now

    Step 11: endure 20 consecutive losses at an average margin of 19.1 PPG.
    We had our own version of Mullens at the start of the season. MU traded him away for 3 draft picks though

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  14. #911
    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    Could a combination of Lowry, DD, Ross, Valanciunas, Vasquez, Patterson all in their prime, + draft pick this year contend for a championship:

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

  15. #912
    Raptors Republic All-Star Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    Could a combination of Lowry, DD, Ross, Valanciunas, Vasquez, Patterson all in their prime, + draft pick this year contend for a championship:

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Depends on the bench!

  16. #913
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Depends on the bench!
    LeBron, Paul, and Aaron Gray.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  18. #914
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    Could a combination of Lowry, DD, Ross, Valanciunas, Vasquez, Patterson all in their prime, + draft pick this year contend for a championship:

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    If the title they are contending for is that of being nice guys, that rep Toronto to the fullest, then they've already got it locked up!

  19. #915
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    Champions of Our Hearts 2014.

  20. #916
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Champions of Our Hearts 2014.
    If they get to the second round, no doubt


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #917
    Raptors Republic Starter Scraptor's Avatar
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    Here's what I wonder... if Kyle Lowry does walk, what the heck do you do? Do you move Demar and start the tank or do you try to retool?

  22. #918
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Here's what I wonder... if Kyle Lowry does walk, what the heck do you do? Do you move Demar and start the tank or do you try to retool?
    I'm not sure they'd need to move DeMar to tank. I think Lowry is too important for this team and tanking would happen naturally.

    I guess Ujiri could try going after Isaiah Thomas. Given the Kings' proximity to tax line, he's a viable target. If that doesn't work, just stand pat. If someone overpays for DeMar (something like the Hornets overpaid for Jrue Holiday), trade him. Otherwise go into the season with him and see what happens. Most likely a colossal shit storm of a season.

  23. #919
    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    How high do you think DeRozans value is? Every time I watch a game with the opponents commentators they always talk about how he's such a great player, they praise is work ethic, how he can get to the line and more

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