View Poll Results: What word best describes your preference moving forward for the Raptors?

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  • Tanker

    12 32.43%
  • Tweaker

    25 67.57%
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Thread: Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

  1. #101
    Raptors Republic All-Star Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Win shares through theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com say differently -even injured.

    The five best players is not always the best lineup.
    As an example, Harden coming off the bench worked pretty well. Derozan coming off the bench might be awesome if the Raos had a decent PG as a backup.

  2. #102
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    As an example, Harden coming off the bench worked pretty well. Derozan coming off the bench might be awesome if the Raos had a decent PG as a backup.
    Definitely agree. DeRozan as 6th man on this team would be interesting. Problem of course is filling the holes in other areas with limited assets and exceptions.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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  3. #103
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Win shares through theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com say differently -even injured.

    The five best players is not always the best lineup.
    I'm well aware of that but this whole line of thinking feels like the carriage is in front of the horse to me. Also, by me saying that they should replace Demar with a better talent if they make a trade does not preclude the idea of Fields starting. I really like Demar as a player, but I also realize that the Raptors suck. If trading him would have a significantly positive impact on the team, I'm all for it. If moving him to the bench benefits the team I'm for that too. However, I feel like no one knows what version of Landry Fields is playing for the Raptors. And Ross is at least a year from being even in this debate.

    Also, Demar played a lot more with AB than Fields did. He also played during the worst stretch of the season while Fields was injured. Simply using these two stats in a vacuum does not tell the whole story. I'm not saying that you're wrong but I would need something significantly more in depth than that (using situational data, video based analytical data, etc) to come to any conclusion.

    For instance, for all of his poor individual stats the defensive ranking of the starting lineup was extremely high. That could be for a number of reasons. One could argue that it proves that the wing spots work well together guarding players. But again, that stat doesn't tell the whole story. I want to know the whole story. To me that includes finding out what a healthy Landry Fields looks like on the court.

  4. #104
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Raptors should not trade Demar and start Landry because "theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com" say it's a good idea. Point finale. I just find that ridiculous. Lets see how Landry does next season before this is even brought up again.

  5. #105
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    This thread sucks. So many UNREALISTIC what if scenarios. So many unrealistic trade suggestions.

    Let's be real here. Do you guys really think DeRozan is going anywhere? the guy just signed a 4 year extension 7 months ago. If they move him, do you guys really think the Raptors will be a better team next season? or get a great package or young player in return? i don't think so.

    Second, do you guys really think the Raps will just let Gay walk away or use him as a trade chip? really? he's the best player they've had since CHRIS BOSH. Best winger they've had by far since VINCE CARTER. Yeah trade him. Shaking my head right now.

    Like it or not, this is the core of the team: JV, Gay, DeRozan, Lowry, Amir and Ross. I'd like to see what this current group of guys can do in a full season before i make any move.
    Follow me on Twitter - @RRyan22

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  7. #106
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Agreed ^

    Let's NOT fuck things up for another five years.

  8. #107
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.
    Lol he made the all rookie first team. You obviously don't understand the type of injury this guy went through. I'd rather listen to what alex mckechnie has to say then your biased, UN-insightful analysis.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  9. #108
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Bargnani made all rookie first team #JustSaying

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  11. #109
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Bargnani made all rookie first team #JustSaying
    Point taken. Butttttttttttttttt it doesn't always mean that its false. Tyreke won rookie of the year, and he's trash now. Buttttttt so did Kyrie and he's looking like a franchise talent
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  12. #110
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Point taken. Butttttttttttttttt it doesn't always mean that its false. Tyreke won rookie of the year, and he's trash now. Buttttttt so did Kyrie and he's looking like a franchise talent
    So, anything can happen and you don't need a stellar year to get on the all rookie team. Basically if you get a starting job somewhere you have a very good chance to get on one of the rookie teams.

    The thing about Landry is that we have no clue if he'll ever get back to shooting average (let alone better). What anyone on the Raptors says in public doesn't really have a lot of meaning, it's company talk. They won't come out very often and say something negative about a player.

    I like Landry a lot, but the fact is we offered him a (already high) contract when he was apparently injured (medical test anyone?) and right now we are only hoping we'll get something resembling fair value in production in return. But he probably won't go anywhere, so there's nothing wrong with hope.

  13. #111
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    I think he'll recover. Alex Mckenchnie wouldn't just spit mindless positivity, he knows what he's talking about
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  14. #112
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    What exactly did he say about Fields anyway? There might be a link in this thread or some other, but I missed it (and can't find it quickly).

  15. #113
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    What exactly did he say about Fields anyway? There might be a link in this thread or some other, but I missed it (and can't find it quickly).
    He basically said that he's been working his ass off to get back to form and that he should be back at 100% by training camp. I'll try to find the video if i can
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  16. #114
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    He basically said that he's been working his ass off to get back to form and that he should be back at 100% by training camp. I'll try to find the video if i can
    Well, if he said that, we'll pretty much know the worth of Alex McKechnie's words as well as how competent he is at the start of next season.

  17. #115
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Raptors should not trade Demar and start Landry because "theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com" say it's a good idea. Point finale. I just find that ridiculous. Lets see how Landry does next season before this is even brought up again.
    Passive aggressive much?

    Point finale? I'd that like an end of thread special ending? Maybe a 2 hour special? Or maybe the head of the CRTC has graced RR with his presence and shut the thread down?

    The fact of the matter is there is enough evidence to support the claim the Raptors are a better team with a not 100% LF over an inefficient one dimensional DD. it might not pass the eye test for the always sexy and eye catching points per game but there is much more to the game than jump shots and the game is played on two sides of the ball. When dd has an off shooting night what does he consistently bring to the floor contribute elsewhere?

    There is also evidence to support the other side of the argument but that too is circumstantial and inconclusive.

    I always thought it was the point of the forums was to discuss. There have been a couple of people saying how stupid it is yet it generated 6 pages of comments. What I find ridiculous is a person entering an ongoing conversation telling everyone how ridiculous the conversation is when they missed the entire point to begin with. It is not about LF vs DD, there are many layers to this discussion and clearly that has gone over your head or you were too lazy and ignorant to follow the discussion before proclaiming the end.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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  18. #116
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Passive aggressive much?

    Point finale? I'd that like an end of thread special ending? Maybe a 2 hour special? Or maybe the head of the CRTC has graced RR with his presence and shut the thread down?

    The fact of the matter is there is enough evidence to support the claim the Raptors are a better team with a not 100% LF over an inefficient one dimensional DD. it might not pass the eye test for the always sexy and eye catching points per game but there is much more to the game than jump shots and the game is played on two sides of the ball. When dd has an off shooting night what does he consistently bring to the floor contribute elsewhere?

    There is also evidence to support the other side of the argument but that too is circumstantial and inconclusive.

    I always thought it was the point of the forums was to discuss. There have been a couple of people saying how stupid it is yet it generated 6 pages of comments. What I find ridiculous is a person entering an ongoing conversation telling everyone how ridiculous the conversation is when they missed the entire point to begin with. It is not about LF vs DD, there are many layers to this discussion and clearly that has gone over your head or you were too lazy and ignorant to follow the discussion before proclaiming the end.
    I'm starting to like the idea of starting Fields over DeRozan, and have him come off the bench and play with Ross. That would definitely strengthen the bench, and this isn't even considering any trade for Bargnani, where likely Amir also comes off the bench, and a - hopefully - solid contributing big man like a Gasol, or Boozer can step in.

    Creates balance in the rotations, better spread of talent - especially considering the fact the Raptors have a poor bench - and more dimensions (offense vs. defense) on the court.

    Starters: Lowry, Fields, Gay, Boozer (hypothetically), Valanciunas.
    Bench: Back-up point guard, Ross, DeRozan, Acy, Amir.

  19. #117
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Sorry man didn't mean to be a dick, just saying this is all really really unrealistic. Does anyone actually think Demar will be traded this off-season or come off the bench? Would the team really take these risks?

  20. #118
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Sorry man didn't mean to be a dick, just saying this is all really really unrealistic. Does anyone actually think Demar will be traded this off-season or come off the bench? Would the team really take these risks?
    First Bold: Why wouldn't he be traded? For teams looking for secured talent, DeMar has a long-term contract. He's got good value, a talented wing scorer, and one that still has room to grow, and has improved statistics and game-play every season. That's a valuable trade asset in my opinion. Main thing, he is a talent, a player that many teams would take on their roster.

    Second Bold: Would the team take risks? Yes, if it actually meant being able to acquire Kevin Love in a deal.

    I don't agree with the "unrealistic" speculation, I mean, we acquired Rudy Gay didn't we? ....

  21. #119
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    And I realize that because of Landry's injury he's had to bring other things to the table because his shot isn't working for him which he was doing really well like rebounding, steals and basically just being a pretty good hustle guy. But, if his shot doesn't come back and he's going to have to rely on those aspects of his game to help a team which he'll probably be pretty good at why wouldn't he just continue to come off the bench as a terrific role player?

    Demar is going to continue to get better, we've all seen, every season he's come back with some extra added to his game and he's become pretty consistent. He's only going to get stronger and smarter, he's only 23. Toronto should let him develop and not throw his game off by sending him to the bench a year after he sings a 4 year 38 million dollar contract. If he doesn't continue to get better and Fields is the better man then it'll happen but why should the force it if it's so uncertain. It could go horribly wrong and we'd all be on here busting whoever our GM will be who made the decision and asking for him to be fired.

  22. #120
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is it would be a fuckin risky and bold move lol trading him this off season or putting him on the bench.

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