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Thread: Solve the equation: (1 of DeRozan/Ross) + (#tradeBargnani) = quality starting PF

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Solve the equation: (1 of DeRozan/Ross) + (#tradeBargnani) = quality starting PF

    I made a post here that has a lot of the rationale behind my thinking for this thread.

    In a nutshell for the Raptors to really compete with what they currently have, they need to obtain a quality PF with just these two assets at their disposal:

    - one of Ross or DeRozan.
    - Bargnani.


    So what is your best trade to address PF involving just one of DD/Ross and Bargnani?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Bold proposition: BOTH DeMar and Ross, with Bargnani.

    - Bargnani's value is very low, this is basically relying sorely on DeMar's value.
    - Adding Ross = Young talent, value (rookie contract), potential factor
    - Clears up team's log jam significantly at wing positions.
    - Receiving players(s)/asset(s) will be better.

    I was thinking this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cdkjl55

    Raptors receive: Kevin Love, Luke Ridnour, Malcolm Lee
    T'Wolves receive: DeMar DeRozan, Terrence Ross, Andrea Bargnani, 2nd Round Pick.

    Wolves do this because of their lack of above average/talented wings. DeMar DeRozan is a young, talented, athletic scorer, with still much room to improve, and a long term contract that has him secured. Terrence Ross, cheap, young, athletic, shooter, defender, and has a high ceiling, this helps current and long-term goals. Bargnani, in a new situation, might be able to rejuvenate his career, like Love, he'll bring outside shooting, and whilst he's not the rebounder Love is, that can be made up for playing alongside Pekovic. A wing rotation built mostly around DeRozan/Shved/Ross, and possibly re-signing Kirilenko & Budinger, could be a solid core of wings. Love is out likely because of the situation regarding the extension and money reserved for Rubio, and with Love gone, the speculation and the situation of him walking away isn't present. The team is able to receive talent or assets for a player that will eventually expire, and likely walk away. A team around Rubio, DeRozan/Ross, Kirilenko/DeRozan, Bargnani, Pekovic will be a really nice team, with potential to be a playoff team.

    Raptors are able to get rid of the contract in DeMar, mostly because of the money being tied up with Gay, Fields, Lowry possibly being extended, and now, Love. The team is also able to get rid of Bargnani, and replace him with a superstar talent, rebounder, and brings that floor spacing Casey constantly preaches of necessity. Love also rebounds the basketball. |Malcolm Lee comes in, a player who is similar to Dominic McGuire, good slasher, good defender, understands team defensive concepts, and is a player that can handler the ball. He is a combo guard with solid athletic tools such as length, and quickness. Ridnour addresses the need for the back-up point guard, definitely a player who fits that role very well. Team becomes less ball dominant, with Love rebounding, and perimeter shooting, Valanciunas in the post, Rudy the lone shot creator, Fields as the off-ball offense/defender, and Lowry being the attacking point guard (hopefully), this team looks very good on paper.

    The Raptors than still have the MLE, that can be used to acquire another defensive wing, or outside shooter, and a scorer off the bench. A centre might be needed as well, for Valanciunas needs to sit, and Gray fits best as the 3rd stringer.


    Lineup:

    Lowry/Ridnour/Lucas III
    Fields/Lee
    Gay/back-up/back-up
    Love/Johnson/Acy
    Valanciunas/back-up/Gray

    Attainable names from free agency:
    Wings -

    DeShawn Stevenson (non-guaranteed)
    Kyle Korver
    Ben Gordon (player option)
    Lance Stephenson (non-guaranteed)
    Corey Maggette
    J.J. Redick
    Randy Foye
    Keith Bogans
    Corey Brewer
    Matt Barnes
    Trevor Ariza (player option)

    Bigs -

    Brandon Wright
    Elton Brand
    DaJaun Blair
    Marreese Speights (player option)
    Robin Lopez (non-guaranteed)

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Tue May 14th, 2013 at 02:51 AM.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Option #1:
    Bargnani + DeRozan + future 1st round pick = Love + Ridnour --> possible after 2013 draft, assuming TOR's pick goes to OKC

    Option #2:
    i. Bargnani (and possibly 2014 2nd round pick) = Ridnour (and possibly Williams/Roy) --> to help facilitate a Gasol trade for Minnesota
    ii. DeRozan = Millsap (via S&T)

    Option #3:
    i. Bargnani = any positive return, ideally either a SF or PG (so the other can still be addressed via MLE signing)
    ii. DeRozan = Millsap (via S&T)


    STARTERS
    C: Valanciunas
    PF: Love/Millsap
    SF: Gay
    SG: Fields
    PG: Lowry

    2ND UNIT
    C/PF: Johnson
    SF: signed via MLE (ie: Dunleavy - veteran, good 3pt shooting, decent defender)
    SG: Ross
    PG: Ridnour
    * one of Valanciunas, Love/Millsap or Gay should always be on the court with the 2nd unit, unless true C is required for match-ups, then Gray would play with 2nd unit

    BENCH
    C: Gray
    PF: Acy
    PG: Lucas
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue May 14th, 2013 at 10:41 AM.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    You have to think about the usual suspects: Love, Millsap, Ilyasova, Gasol (and possibly Boozer).

    However there is always the option of moving Gay to PF permanently and getting another SF in the lineup.. you know one that can actually shoot the ball consistently?

    How about Batum and Matthews for Bargnani, DeRozan, Ross and a 1st rounder (lottery protected)? Batum had a sub par year, but he also wanted to leave Portland to go to Minnesota of all places. I know the Raptors were interested.

    Could Aldridge/Bargnani work?

    A starting line up of:
    Lowry/Matthews/Batum/Gay/JV isn't so bad. Good mix of offense/defense with shooters in the mix.

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    Gay is a SF period, he's not a PF. I would say.

    (1) Toronto trade Demar + Bargs for Millsap + Watsons
    (2) Toronto signs Mike Dunleavy
    (3) Toronto signs Carl Landry
    (4) Toronto resigns Anderson, Lucas III
    (5) Toronto amnesty Kleiza

    Lowry/Watson/Lucas III
    Fields/Ross/Anderson
    Gay/Dunleavy
    Millsap/C.Landry/Acy
    Val/Amir/Gray

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    (1) Toronto trade Demar + Bargs for Millsap + Watsons
    I can't seen Utah having any desire for Bargnani. The fact that they're loaded at C & PF is the main reason they're even entertaining the idea to let Millsap and/or Jefferson leave (Favors & Kanter). If they wanted to keep another big, they'd likely just re-sign Millsap, rather than trade for Bargnani. However, I could totally see DeRozan for Millsap being an option, just leave Bargnani out of it.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    My answers to the equation involves looking at teams currently in need of shooting guard:

    Detroit
    Chicago
    Milwaukee
    Dallas
    LA Lakers
    Minnesota
    New Orleans (? - Not sure Gordon wants to be there or is wanted)
    Phoenix
    Utah

    1) Detroit has nothing that would interest me other than a draft night trade for their pick or possibly Brandon Knight. They are looking to shed cap space, not add it. Not seeing a deal here.


    2) Chicago
    Ross/Bargnani for Boozer/Hinrich

    Not my ideal choice... at all. Bargnani for Boozer alone, ok. Bargnani for Boozer and pick, sign me up.


    3) Milwaukee
    DeRozan straight up Ilyasova or Bargnani/DD for Ilyasova/Gooden

    Toronto is obvious: fills need and saves $5M per year on the Bargnani/Gooden throw ins.

    Milwaukee: If they keep Jennings who is a RFA, maybe they want to make the guy getting paid $10+M per season a little more at ease in a place he does not want to be with his old pal.


    4) Dallas
    Cupboards are bare in Dallas unless sign and trade for Mayo is possible and/or their pick is on the table. Dallas has been rumoured to be keen on Jennings - same concept as Milwaukee?


    5) Lakers
    Gasol with Bargnani and Ross won't cut it. Bargnani and DD adds salary. Bargnani and Fields? Don't see this being feasible. Not sure about the Minnesota interest anymore with Kahn gone.


    6)Minnesota
    Love.... ummmm.... one can dream so here goes:
    DeRozan and 2 first round picks for Love.


    7) New Orleans
    Anderson for DeRozan
    Anderson for Ross and Gray
    They can use Gordon to fill another need.
    Probably never going to happen. Would love to see it.


    8) Phoenix
    DeRozan for Dudley/Scola/2nd rd pick back
    If they want to get rid of Beasley throw in Bargnani???


    9) Utah
    DeRozan for Millsap sign and trade.



    Just throwing shit out there. Not a lot of faith in any of it besides Milwaukee and maybe Utah.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    How about Batum and Matthews for Bargnani, DeRozan, Ross and a 1st rounder (lottery protected)? Batum had a sub par year, but he also wanted to leave Portland to go to Minnesota of all places. I know the Raptors were interested.
    For Bargs, Derozan, Ross AND a 1st rounder I sure as hell hope we could get more than Batum and Matthews lol that's a little bit sad.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

    Why does Portland do this? . . . who knows but ESPN trade machine says it works. I'd hate to see Ross leave and become a beast though. But that's bound to happen with any young talent we might trade. It's just typical Toronto Raptor stuff lol

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    Raptors Republic All-Star enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

    Why does Portland do this? . . . who knows but ESPN trade machine says it works. I'd hate to see Ross leave and become a beast though. But that's bound to happen with any young talent we might trade. It's just typical Toronto Raptor stuff lol
    lol at not knowing how to use trademachine
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star enlightenment's Avatar
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    1) Derozan for Milsap straight up (Utah would do it in a second!)

    2) Derozan + Bargnani for Kevin Love

    3) Derozan + Bargnani for Spencer Hawes + Thaddeus Young
    I would love trade #3, and am trying to come up with a reason for the 76ers to take it!
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    1) Derozan for Milsap straight up (Utah would do it in a second!)

    2) Derozan + Bargnani for Kevin Love

    3) Derozan + Bargnani for Spencer Hawes + Thaddeus Young
    I would love trade #3, and am trying to come up with a reason for the 76ers to take it!
    Their new president is suppose to be a big analytics guy. Forget all talk of Bargs to Philly, I think.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    lol at not knowing how to use trademachine
    Ahaha God damnit, I'll have to go re-do that trade and post it again

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    I have a hard time sending a guy like Derozan who has proven his loyalty to the Raptors to a terrible team like the 76ers or the T-Wolves (Especially after taking either teams top big men). It would be such a slap to the face, but I guess that's why I am not a GM.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote swingman wrote: View Post
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mgcdrrb
    Straight-up salary clearing. I suppose Acy doesn't have to be on it, but I threw him on because if he was needed to sweeten the deal I would.
    I'd take expensive Boozer over Frye and his unfortunate heart condition.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie swingman's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    I'd take expensive Boozer over Frye and his unfortunate heart condition.


    I meant to post it in the other Bargs thread (I know there's about a million of them right now).
    Dunno, I don't really wanna have to give up too much in terms of picks or young guys, this is a good way just to get rid of Bargs with as little lost as possible.

    Edit: Holy shit I'm tired.
    Last edited by swingman; Mon May 20th, 2013 at 01:14 AM.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote swingman wrote: View Post
    I meant to posted in the other Bargs thread (I know there's about a million of them right now).
    Dunno, I don't really wanna have to give up too much in terms of picks or young guys, this is a good way just to get rid of Bargs with as little lost as possible.
    Rumour is, it's Bargnani + Lucas for Boozer + Robinson.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie swingman's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    Rumour is, it's Bargnani + Lucas for Boozer + Robinson.
    Really? Jeez, that seems like such a bad trade on Chicago's part.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote swingman wrote: View Post
    Really? Jeez, that seems like such a bad trade on Chicago's part.
    It is. But it's better for Chicago to get someone for Boozer, rather than straight up amnestying him.
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