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  • #16
    When Lieweke says this team isn't good enough, he's speaking about every person on the roster. Not simply Lowry, DD, Gay, Amir, JV and Ross. There are 9 other guys on the roster which aren't doing jack for the team.

    You guys asked who goes so this is my opinion. You can't tell us we aren't allowed to vote for keeping our core group lol I just think those group of guys need a better surrounding cast. Scrap the entire bench with the exception of Ross and maybe Landry and acquire a back up PG, a veteran wing player (hopefully a dead-eye three shooter), and I'm up for suggestion to fill the rest of the roster but it won't be Pietrus, Kleiza Bargs, Anderson or Gray.

    I don't care whether Lucas stays or not.
    You come at the King, you best not miss.

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    • #17
      Mr.Z wrote: View Post
      When Lieweke says this team isn't good enough, he's speaking about every person on the roster. Not simply Lowry, DD, Gay, Amir, JV and Ross. There are 9 other guys on the roster which aren't doing jack for the team.

      You guys asked who goes so this is my opinion. You can't tell us we aren't allowed to vote for keeping our core group lol I just think those group of guys need a better surrounding cast. Scrap the entire bench with the exception of Ross and maybe Landry and acquire a back up PG, a veteran wing player (hopefully a dead-eye three shooter), and I'm up for suggestion to fill the rest of the roster but it won't be Pietrus, Kleiza Bargs, Anderson or Gray.

      I don't care whether Lucas stays or not.

      Who is telling you who to vote for?

      The fact is the man in charge wants change. He has made it pretty clear he does not think this team is a piece away from contention. He has also made it pretty clear he wants to be more than a 7/11. Guys like Aaron Gray or John Lucas don't make enough money or play a big enough role to matter and they don't have enough value to return anything of substance to make a difference in the team's fortunes. Guys like Bargnani, Kleiza, and Fields are on bad contracts.

      By keeping the current core of players as you suggest, here are the methods Toronto has to make the changes/improvements you suggest:

      1) Trade: Bargnani, Kleiza, Gray, Fields
      2) Free agency: Mid Level Exception
      3) Minimum contracts


      Something bigger needs to be coming down the pipe to make the changes Leiweke is alluding to.

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      • #18
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Who is telling you who to vote for?
        You said "This is a conversation that has been had numerous times. I don't really want to get in to it again other than to say sometimes your most talented 5 is not your best 5." in response to TRex's comment lol that's basically saying "If this is what you think, don't even mention it."
        You come at the King, you best not miss.

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        • #19
          Mr.Z wrote: View Post
          You said "This is a conversation that has been had numerous times. I don't really want to get in to it again other than to say sometimes your most talented 5 is not your best 5." in response to TRex's comment lol that's basically saying "If this is what you think, don't even mention it."
          the topics of who is better between DD,LF,TR is different than the topic of who goes based on new boss comments. there are numerous threads and I'd bet 100 posts on the former.

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          • #20
            Ok, let's say they move DD. What exactly can they get for him?? and who's going to start at the 2 for the Raptors?
            Mamba Mentality

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            • #21
              Yeah, the question is who goes, and my opinion is the guys on the bench (Bargs and the rest). I'm not arguing who's better. I'm simply stating my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Yes "the man in charge" wants change, this is just what I think should be changed this off-season.
              You come at the King, you best not miss.

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              • #22
                I said DD and AB. AB for obvious reasons, it's just time. DD because he is the guy with the most value who is expendable in the long run. I don't think Fields or Ross will be adequate replacements at SG, so we'd need to get someone at the 2 in the DD and AB trades.
                Overall, I'm fine with anyone outside of Jonas being traded as long as it makes us better in the long run.

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                • #23
                  TRex wrote: View Post
                  Ok, let's say they move DD. What exactly can they get for him?? and who's going to start at the 2 for the Raptors?
                  You can get Pau? Landry Fields has been a starter in this league before. On two successful team.
                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • #24
                    This is a team with maybe 5 or 6 players, yet 12 people getting player contracts. Is JL3 still on contract? If so I would try to move him too. I think the first step needs to be having a real bench with real players. Could moving AB help there? Who ever they bring in has to fit an actual team philosophy. So which of the 5/6 actual players that gets moved probably should happen during the season, unless a killer offer is made. Who should be safe? JV. I got fandom for DD, but for the right players-- see ya. Gay? He's good, but that contract for that performance? Lowry... you get my point. All 5/6 (the 6th being a healthy, rehabbed LF) have flaws.

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                    • #25
                      Most likely to Least likely to go:

                      K Lowry
                      A Bargnani
                      T Ross
                      L Fields
                      A Gray
                      D Derozan
                      A Johnson
                      R Gay
                      J V

                      Assuming Ujiri is taking over, I think he'll make strengthening PG positions No. 1 priority. So Lowry heads the list of my 'most likely to go'.

                      Trading Bargnani IMO will be his No.2 priority and so adding Ross, Amir or even JV may be necessary to make trade possible.

                      Same may be done to get rid of Fields.
                      Attitude Is A Choice.

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                      • #26
                        I would be 100% okay with starting fields if we could trade demar for a quality PF. He may not be an offensive threat, but he's a glue guy and IMO every team should have one in there starting lineup. It frees up more time for Ross to develop and even just his increase in minutes helps our lack of 3 point shooting ability. Him and Bargnani should be first to go and they should keep:
                        Lowry,Fields,Gay,JV,Amir, and Ross. Everyone else is expendable or could be easily replaced by free agents.

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                        • #27
                          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          You can get Pau? Landry Fields has been a starter in this league before. On two successful team.
                          Lol so you're going to trade a guy that just turned 24 for a guy that has 2-3 years of good basketball left in him?? no way.
                          Mamba Mentality

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                          • #28
                            It's really tough to predict what next year will look like for us. I mean, the new GM can come in and blow the whole thing apart ... or he can come in and trade whatever prospect we have to buy an all-star & make a run for the playoffs. The fact that we are not 100% certain who the GM will be and what his intentions will turn out to be, it's making for an interesting, yet scary off season.

                            If I were to be GM for the Raptors, I would certainly keep Valanciunas & dangle everyone on the roster for a chance to improve the team top down -- not to blow it apart.

                            My list (in order of "keep" to "sell")

                            VALANCIUNAS

                            ***big***

                            ***gap***

                            GAY
                            ROSS
                            JOHNSON

                            LOWRY
                            FIELDS
                            ACY
                            DeROZAN
                            GRAY
                            LUCAS




                            BARGNANI

                            I'm certainly not hating on DeMar. I just think that aside from the rooks & maybe Gay?, he has the most value in the market. Someone will buy into his services -- an ever improving & athletic guard -- good character -- hard worker -- improved jump shot -- improved awareness .... someone will buy into that sort of thinking & would want to render his services. I figure Terrence Ross will likely improve & with consistent minutes, he should project to be at the very least, a capable rotation player. If DeMar nets you someone better than Pau Gasol (RE: expiring contract, former all star), then I think it's worth the tears (cause you know, we get attached to our boys).

                            I would trade Bargnani for Araujo.

                            Amir and Lowry would be included if packaged along with DeMar to net someone like Aldrige -- something along those lines.

                            Fields would be included if someone is willing to take him on. I think we can find quality defensive guys (who can shoot threes better than him) for a fraction of his cost .... Corey Brewer?

                            Lucas, Acy & Gray would be fillers a la Hamed Haddadi although my preference would be to keep Acy since he's a mobile defender who seems like he's always on Red Bull.

                            Last but not the least, I will get a new coach or at the very least, hire an assistant who is regarded as one of those "brains behind the operation." [most likely just hire a new coach]
                            “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

                            -- Charles Barkley

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                            • #29
                              Honestly, I only want Bargs out and just replace the rest of the scrubs not listed here (anderson, lucas, telfair) with better players. Bargs for Boozer. Derozan is probably the most marketable, and I thought it would have been better if they traded him to get rudy gay since we still have terrence ross. I'm not hating on derozan, i like his work ethic and i'm hoping he can improve and be a top 10 sg in the future. i'm not impressed with lowry. i might be biased coz of my preference on point guards who pass first and make plays, vs. shoot first point guards. we need a decent backup pg, maybe not jose calderon (as much as i would love him to come back) as he might take the starting job again. maybe ridnour, hinrich, flynn. i'm hoping to get a late 1st rounder or early 2nd round pick so we could draft kabongo (not only coz hes cdn).

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                              • #30
                                Demar, gay, bargs are gone.
                                Welp, that sucked.

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