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Thread: Chisholm: Ujiri the anti-Colangelo?

  1. #41
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I think Sam Mitchell's firing was the beginning of the down fall. When you think about it, the teams that didn't make the play offs the following two years under Triano would have made it at least once(if not twice) if Mitchell was still there. Especially the year in which Raps. were at 4th place before the AS break. If that{continued success) had happened, it may have encouraged Bosh to stay and the 'rebuilding' would never had been necessary.
    It was happening well before then. It would be like if Colangelo was managing a truck dealership and instead of ordering truck inventory for his mechanics to work on the trucks he was purchasing luxury sedan parts and telling them to deal with it. Sam Mitchell was there before Colangelo, he didn't fit what Colangelo wanted to run(few do) and instead of adapting to his coach or firing said coach, he told Smitch to deal with it, it eventually failed because as he deviated more and more away from his coach's philosophies but hey, he had a pretty expensive scape goat.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Rookie LateBoomer's Avatar
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    What's wrong with some peeps here?
    l thought we all wanted BC kicked out?
    ln my books, Ujiri at this point is head and shoulders above BC.
    Compare Denver's current state to the Raptors, it's just that simple.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I'm still behind Pritchard myself, but I'd be happy with any GM that beleives in building through the draft. Teams like Charlotte and Clevland are bottom dwellers now, but they're putting together top 5 after top 5 picks. At some point they're going to be in really good position talent wise and cap wise to make some noise. I think both Pritchard and Weaver would share that philosophy considering their backgrounds.
    One would hope but it is not a guarantee. That formula has not yielded success for Minnesota or Sacramento and the strategy yielded just 1 playoff appearance in 14 years for the Clippers before the last 2 seasons (and the last two years was a trade to turn things around).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    One would hope but it is not a guarantee. That formula has not yielded success for Minnesota or Sacramento and the strategy yielded just 1 playoff appearance in 14 years for the Clippers before the last 2 seasons (and the last two years was a trade to turn things around).
    Agree and disagree. I agree that nothing is guaranteed, but that goes without saying. You can do everything correctly and still end up with the short end of the stick. That is sports. You can also do everything incorrectly like New York, and end up in the semi's. you also need someone with the ability to draft talent like Pritchard doing the drafting. Frankly Khan and I don't even know who was doing the drafting for Sacramento and the Clippers (Dunleavy?). The only thing you can do as a GM is put your team in a position to do well. The rest is up to good fortune imo.

  5. #45
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    Unlike MLB and NHL teams(big rosters), an NBA team is wasting it's time trying to build through the draft IMO. Bottoming out to draft a Franchise Player is important but afterwards shrewd trades, FA signings and drafting are sufficient to build successful teams. Raptors did the initial thing when they drafted Vince Carter and later Chris Bosh but wasted both opportunities.

    The key is to have the right GM running the show. With BC gone and next years draft potentially deep in talent, it's probably a good time for the new incoming GM to strip down the team, create as much cap space as possible and MOST IMPORTANTLY, get a good draft pick and draft a Franchise Player. It could take the team a long way.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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  7. #46
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I wonder how much of Denver's success is directly attributable to the presence of George Karl.

    For some reason, I just can't see Denver's roster coached by Casey, doing very well.

    Ujiri deserves credit, but so does Karl.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #47
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Or what if Casey's woes are due to the poorly constructed team he was given? Casey was applauded as a great hire in here and prior to coming to Toronto he was on top of the world.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Although applauded, Casey has yet to show he can manage an offense.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Although applauded, Casey has yet to show he can manage an offense.
    It's too big of a weakness for a head coach IMO.

  11. #50
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    If we remember well Casey was brought in to instill a defensive style/mindset and did tremendous his first year. Most in this forum were excited about what could be if the improvement continued. Not to be. What happened? The only major personnel change was Lowry and he was going to be an improvement on the much maligned Jose. Was it Lowry, did Casey slack off or change his style/emphasis or was there a BC effect on coaching (style and personnel usage)? Unfortunately we wont find out.

  12. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I wonder how much of Denver's success is directly attributable to the presence of George Karl.

    For some reason, I just can't see Denver's roster coached by Casey, doing very well.

    Ujiri deserves credit, but so does Karl.
    That is what i've been saying. Denver's team looks pretty mediocre on paper but when you watch them play it's a whole different story. George Carl has more to do with the success of that team then Ujiri even though i'd prefer Ujiri over Bc.
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  13. #52
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I wonder how much of Denver's success is directly attributable to the presence of George Karl.

    Ujiri deserves credit, but so does Karl.
    I totally agree. George Karl is a fantastic Coach who brings the best out of his players. Ujiri wouldn't have looked this good without Karl.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  14. #53
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If the Nuggets got hosed on the Melo deal we wouldn't be talking about how good Carl is and we wouldn't be talking about Ujiri.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If the Nuggets got hosed on the Melo deal we wouldn't be talking about how good Carl is and we wouldn't be talking about Ujiri.
    They probably would not have had the same kind of success but I think we would have talked about how good Karl and Ujiri are.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  16. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I totally agree. George Karl is a fantastic Coach who brings the best out of his players. Ujiri wouldn't have looked this good without Karl.
    I'm not as tough on Karl as many in the analytics community are (the guy has been coaching for 30 years and has won a tonne of games, so he is doing something right) but I am in the club who believes Karl is a vastly overrated head coach. He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.

  17. #56
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Just checked Ujiri's track record on:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jirima99x.html

    People here have discussed the Melo-Drama already. Five other transactions that stood out for me:


    June 23, 2011: Selected Kenneth Faried (1st round, 22nd pick) in the 2011 NBA Draft.
    Wiki: “In the second week of the 2012–13 NBA season, the Maniamal won the Player of the Week award due to his aggressive playing style and offensive rebounds. On November 15, 2012, Faried set a new career high with 20 rebounds in a game against the Miami Heat.[11]” How could he slide to 22nd?! Great pick!!
    June 23, 2011: As part of a 3-team trade, the Denver Nuggets traded Raymond Felton for Jordan Hamilton (SF: 2011 draft, 26th by Dallas) , Andre Miller and a future 2nd round draft pick
    Ujiri turned Felton, an opportunistic PG, into a solid veteran – Miller, who provided the most needed leadership to the young Nuggets. One would argue that Felton is a better/younger player of the two (certainly for NY), but that’s not what the Nuggets needed back in June of 2011. Plus, Ujiri got a young prospect - freshly selected 1st rounder, Hamilton!
    December 13, 2011: Traded a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for Corey Brewer and Rudy Fernandez.
    A clear salary dump by the Mavs, but kudos to Ujiri for being opportunistic and snatching these two players before anybody else… essentially for nothing! Brewer has become a legit rotation player on a deep Nuggets roster. He would have easily become our starting SF prior to Rudy Gay trade! Wish BC has made this move... or maybe not; otherwise he could have still been our GM As for Rudy Fernandez (another former first round selection) – he has also played well for the Nuggets before suffering a season ending injury; could have been another asset if not for a season ending injury and a subsequent return to Europe.
    June 28, 2012: Selected Evan Fournier (1st round, 20th pick), Quincy Miller (2nd round, 38th pick) and Izzet Turkyalamz (2nd round, 50th pick) in the 2012 NBA Draft.
    I have not watched enough Denver games in order to have an opinion on Founier, but a quick review of his stats and the matter of fact that he has started all his four games these playoffs on a deep Nuggets team tells me he is another solid pick.
    August 10, 2012: As part of a 4-team trade, the Denver Nuggets traded Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington and a 2014 1st round draft pick for Andre Iguodala
    Simply a steal for the Nuggets! This move has probably given Ujiri the Executive of the Year award and took the 76rs a step back!

    C'mon Ujiri, accept that 4 year/12M offer!!

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  19. #57
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    The Faried pick was an excellent one, and one that shows that he knows how to construct a roster for the modern NBA. More and more teams are going to go with energetic and atheletic undersized centers (Anderson Varajao type) to go with elite shooters to spread the floor. With a lot of outside shooters, you get a lot of offensive rebound opportunities, so having a guy with a great motor to keep plays alive is a great strength. Faried might be the proto-typical NBA big man over the next decade (not saying he is the best, but that he fits the mold) and to get that type of value at 22 is great.

  20. #58
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    Not sure about that last transaction...2014 draft class promises to be one of the best and Iguodala may walk this year (give up his option). He did save on the cap though.

  21. #59
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Not sure about that last transaction...2014 draft class promises to be one of the best and Iguodala may walk this year (give up his option). He did save on the cap though.
    26th selection is a 26th selection, regardless how deep the draft class PROMISES to be... and anybody can walk any time - this is not a legit argument. Besides, why walk from a situation like this?! I guess that's the point of having a solid organization (and a GM) - you simply do not walk away from it; on the contrary, you take less money to stay there (ala Duncan, Nowitzki?)

  22. #60
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    Just checked Ujiri's track record on:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jirima99x.html

    People here have discussed the Melo-Drama already. Five other transactions that stood out for me:


    June 23, 2011: Selected Kenneth Faried (1st round, 22nd pick) in the 2011 NBA Draft.
    Wiki: “In the second week of the 2012–13 NBA season, the Maniamal won the Player of the Week award due to his aggressive playing style and offensive rebounds. On November 15, 2012, Faried set a new career high with 20 rebounds in a game against the Miami Heat.[11]” How could he slide to 22nd?! Great pick!!
    June 23, 2011: As part of a 3-team trade, the Denver Nuggets traded Raymond Felton for Jordan Hamilton (SF: 2011 draft, 26th by Dallas) , Andre Miller and a future 2nd round draft pick
    Ujiri turned Felton, an opportunistic PG, into a solid veteran – Miller, who provided the most needed leadership to the young Nuggets. One would argue that Felton is a better/younger player of the two (certainly for NY), but that’s not what the Nuggets needed back in June of 2011. Plus, Ujiri got a young prospect - freshly selected 1st rounder, Hamilton!
    December 13, 2011: Traded a 2016 2nd round draft pick to the Dallas Mavericks for Corey Brewer and Rudy Fernandez.
    A clear salary dump by the Mavs, but kudos to Ujiri for being opportunistic and snatching these two players before anybody else… essentially for nothing! Brewer has become a legit rotation player on a deep Nuggets roster. He would have easily become our starting SF prior to Rudy Gay trade! Wish BC has made this move... or maybe not; otherwise he could have still been our GM As for Rudy Fernandez (another former first round selection) – he has also played well for the Nuggets before suffering a season ending injury; could have been another asset if not for a season ending injury and a subsequent return to Europe.
    June 28, 2012: Selected Evan Fournier (1st round, 20th pick), Quincy Miller (2nd round, 38th pick) and Izzet Turkyalamz (2nd round, 50th pick) in the 2012 NBA Draft.
    I have not watched enough Denver games in order to have an opinion on Founier, but a quick review of his stats and the matter of fact that he has started all his four games these playoffs on a deep Nuggets team tells me he is another solid pick.
    August 10, 2012: As part of a 4-team trade, the Denver Nuggets traded Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington and a 2014 1st round draft pick for Andre Iguodala
    Simply a steal for the Nuggets! This move has probably given Ujiri the Executive of the Year award and took the 76rs a step back!

    C'mon Ujiri, accept that 4 year/12M offer!!
    Nice contribution Vino.

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