Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 87

Thread: Chisholm: Ujiri the anti-Colangelo?

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic All-Star Employee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NORTHCOAST
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Ujiri has a very sold track record. The only move I'm not big on at all is the resigning of Javale for like more than $10 mil a year. I guess it's good for comedy sake to have the guy on your team but still...
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Utrecht, The Netherlands (Yes, that's Europe!)
    Posts
    1,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Ujiri has a very sold track record. The only move I'm not big on at all is the resigning of Javale for like more than $10 mil a year. I guess it's good for comedy sake to have the guy on your team but still...
    It depends on what his marketvalue was. I must say that I have no idea. If it's anywhere close to his marketvalue, they had to sign him or see an asset walk. McGee has, in small instances, proven he can be a real gamechanger. He's still a bit of a knucklehead, but nothing like he was in Washington. If I had to chose between 10 mil. for DeRozan or McGee it would be an easy choice.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic All-Star Employee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NORTHCOAST
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Really eh? Personally I'd take DeRozan. They're paying Javale over $10 a year to come off the bench, play 18 mins a game and avg 9 pts and 5 rbs. I guess you could argue he could get better but with DeRozan you know he's at least going to work on improving.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    828
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.
    Can't disagree with you. He has been questionable in the play offs.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    5,020
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    26th selection is a 26th selection, regardless how deep the draft class PROMISES to be... and anybody can walk any time - this is not a legit argument. Besides, why walk from a situation like this?! I guess that's the point of having a solid organization (and a GM) - you simply do not walk away from it; on the contrary, you take less money to stay there (ala Duncan, Nowitzki?)
    Hey, I am a Ujiri supporter...but he did make good/great picks with the 21 & 22 selections in lesser drafts so its not out of the realm he could get a nice player @ 26th. He hasnt shown to be a BC yet. btw, I wasnt picking the Iguodala possibility out of my ear:

    http://tracking.si.com/2013/05/03/nu...-out-contract/

    If this happens and it was on BC's watch he'd be pilloried. Just saying that that last transaction might be a bit iffy even in retrospect with Harrington being a good sub for the injured Gallinari. But we cant have everything I understand.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm not as tough on Karl as many in the analytics community are (the guy has been coaching for 30 years and has won a tonne of games, so he is doing something right) but I am in the club who believes Karl is a vastly overrated head coach. He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.
    yep. further proof run and gun teams don't work in the playoffs.
    @jerboat

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default


    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I'm not as tough on Karl as many in the analytics community are (the guy has been coaching for 30 years and has won a tonne of games, so he is doing something right) but I am in the club who believes Karl is a vastly overrated head coach. He has led 5, count'em 5, 50+ win teams to first round exits, including super-talented Seattle teams in the 90s (even a 60-win team!). His playoff history is atrocious and there is a pattern of his teams underperforming.
    Just to put a little perspective to this:

    Karl record in the playoffs - .432 win%

    Just out of a selection of well known coaches with some history:

    D'Antoni - .441 Jackson - .688 Pops - .662 Doc - .529 Jerry Sloan - .485 Byron Scott - .579 SVG - .552 JVG - .500

    Not sure there is a 'fair' way to judge coaches (and sure as heck don't feel like calculating them all), so make of it what one will.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,063
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post


    GOOD COME ON UJIRI! good he isnt Steve Nashing the city.

  10. #70
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    11,994
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post

    Denver is hoping the money plus the guilt trip adds up to enough I guess.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hopefully at the end of the day he does what is right for him - whether that means staying in Denver or coming to Toronto. After all he is the one who has to live with the decision.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. Like Bendit liked this post
  13. #72
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,764
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Every time I hear George Karl and "good coach" together, I think of this excerpt from a story on Billups

    When he arrives, Chauncey isn't sure what to make of the Nuggets. On paper, he adores their talent. He has worked out with the unpredictable Smith in the past, and has told people Smith can be an All-Star. But his worry is tempo, decision-making. He hates disorganized. "The way they played before I got here was erratic," Chauncey says. "I call it dysfunctional. No discipline. I need some stability. I can't play like that. This game means too much to me."

    Karl calls a meeting to introduce Chauncey, who tells his new teammates, "Look, I'm here to win. I ain't here to do a lot of talking. I'll walk the walk, and hopefully y'all be the same way, and we'll be on the same page."

    Next, they go over all of the team's plays. Chauncey nods, but, inside, he has a sick feeling. For instance, the Nuggets don't have an underneath-the-basket out-of-bounds play. This isn't high school. He can't throw the ball off someone's back and dunk it. What's going on here?
    I don't think Karl is a bad coach...I think he's a fairly good player's coach. He makes a system where guys get to play in their comfort zone. But he isn't necessarily good at making an organized system, or, apparently, just an out-of-bounds play. Even now, the Nuggets play pretty helter-skelter. The more up-and-down and disorganized a game is, the more it plays to their style.

    Source:
    http://espn.go.com/espn/eticket/stor...090511/billups
    A really cool story on Billups from a few years ago.

  14. #73
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    There's a Ujiri twitter account that tweeted he chose Toronto, but it only has 50 followers, so the twitterverse is on fire trying to figure out the account's veracity, lol.


    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #74
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default


    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #75
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Northern Ontario
    Posts
    620
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    One of the main differences between the two is the return on the trade of their star player. In this, Chisholm acknowledges but downplays the differences. Not only did Bosh continue to play coy with Raptors' fans and management about his intentions, he only had one target destination - Miami. If Colangelo had the flexibility to look at more than one destination for trading Bosh, he too could have ratcheted up the value of the trade. Instead, Bosh left him with no alternative but to get whatever he could. Since other teams would have had little interest in trading for Bosh only to lose him to Miami, there was no trade value. This was all orchestrated by Bosh and the Heat. If Colangelo had been at liberty to get market value for Bosh, the Raptors franchise would be in a much better position (as would the Cavs, who got very little for trading this generation's best player). In contrast, Ujiri was able to look at various trade options for Carmelo, and teams knew that they would have to pay in the form of salary relief, draft picks and assets to acquire him. He did a good job on the trade, but comparing his situation to Colangelo's is apples to oranges.
    Bouncepass pretty much nails the Bosh / Carmelo trade scenarios - Apples & Oranges (as others have said).

    Not to rain on the Ujiji parade, but has anyone taken into account the one factor that plays in Denver's favour - Altitude. During the 2012-13 season, the Nuggets were 38-3 at home (and 13-28 on the road) - better then Miami's home record of 37-4 (a function of that consecutive win record they were pursuing).

    In the previous 4 seasons (which excludes the strike shortened season), Denver averaged 7.8 losses at home per season. Their record during these years - including the short season - was:

    • 2012-13 -- 3rd
    • 2011-12 -- 6th (66 games. Messed up schedule. The ONLY time their Road record was +.500 [post 2006-07])
    • 2010-11 -- 5th
    • 2009-10 -- 4th
    • 2008-09 -- 3rd



    Even in 2007-08 season, when the Nuggets just made the play-offs (8th place), their home record was 33-8.

    All that being said, I still would like Ujiji to lead the charge for the Raptors. I also hope Lieweke keeps his nose out of that job - as I don't believe his qualifications warrant any intrusions. Fact is, I kind of think he's redundant in Toronto land. MLSE will have no trouble making boat loads of money ... now, and in the future - which from all that I've read, is what Tim's skill brought him fame. Personally, I didn't like the way he beat down the "past" in his interviews. Why retain a guy (BC), then belittle him in front of the Press. Doesn't strike me as someone I'd want to work for.

    Never-the-less, I hope I'm wrong on the Lieweke perspective, and that Ujiji prospers - should he come.

    .
    Last edited by RapthoseLeafs; Tue May 28th, 2013 at 02:55 PM.

  17. #76
    Raptors Republic All-Star Employee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NORTHCOAST
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    There's a Ujiri twitter account that tweeted he chose Toronto, but it only has 50 followers, so the twitterverse is on fire trying to figure out the account's veracity, lol.


    It's a fake.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  18. #77
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default


    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #78
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,535
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I thought this article was pretty post until I looked a bit deeper at what Denver's been doing..

    More than once Colangelo maxed-out his midlevel exception (Jason Kapono, 2007 and Linas Kleiza, 2010) whereas Ujiri never once used it up on a single player.
    This is partially true. Ujiri's been with Denver since August 2010. One month before, the Nuggets gave Al Harrington that insane deal for the MLE. So it had already been used the summer before he was hired.

    In July 2011, that was the first time he could have used the MLE, but they had the lockout. As you know that old MLE is dead now, the new one is shorter and in most cases teams will probably use the mini-MLE which is less money too.

    So he basically had 2 chances where he could have signed someone to MLE, but under the new CBA which dramatically changed the MLE. Colangelo had like 5 or 6 years under the old CBA to (ab)use it.

    How about Colangelo growing famously attached to some of his players whereas Ujiri would routinely re-sign his free agents only to deal them a few months later?
    This is fair. He signed Nene and then flipped him, but then he gave a max contract to JaVale, who is now Denver's 3rd string center and an incredible moron. I guess if he does grow up then it'll turn out fine, but I'm still waiting o

    Or Colangelo basically ignoring the growing importance of the three-point shot while Ujiri made it a staple of his roster?
    I guess this came down more to accuracy, because we shot significantly more 3 pointers than Denver, and had an identical shooting percentage from the perimeter and this was even without Bargnani who was hurt most of the year. With him we would have annhilated Denver's numbers. Denver had a higher pace offence, but the truth is we had really good 3 point shooting, or least we tried.

    This really comes down to DeRozan and if he can develop a 3 point shot. Both teams shoot jumpers and jump shooting teams shoot a lot of 3s. We were 12th in 3PA/g, and if Bargnani had played a full season I'm sure we'd have been top 10.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  20. #79
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    78
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I dont think ujiri is the savior you guys expect him to be.
    Who the hell pays Javal mcgee 10 -12 million a YEAR!
    Hes making andrea bargniani money and putting up half the stats, terrible decision.
    and with him knowing rogers and bell are willing to go into luxury tax ujiri will go bananas with ridiculous contracts.
    If you guys thought Colangelo was bad just wait and see...***

  21. #80
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,252
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote TdotTrizzy wrote: View Post
    I dont think ujiri is the savior you guys expect him to be.
    Who the hell pays Javal mcgee 10 -12 million a YEAR!
    Hes making andrea bargniani money and putting up half the stats, terrible decision.
    and with him knowing rogers and bell are willing to go into luxury tax ujiri will go bananas with ridiculous contracts.
    If you guys thought Colangelo was bad just wait and see...***
    Probably most of the league.

    DeAndre Jordan is getting over $10M per season. There has always been a premium on athletic big men. There is also the possibility Karl is using the approach that so many defended Casey using on Raptor youth.

    Regarding half the stats of Bargnani, I think you should look at the stats before such a statement.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •