View Poll Results: Would you do Gay for #1?

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  • Yes

    21 41.18%
  • No

    19 37.25%
  • Cavs would have to add more to the deal

    11 21.57%
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Thread: If Cavs are looking to move top pick, Gay for #1?

  1. #41
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default The Toronto Opportunists

    On the flip side of this, why on earth does the next GM make one of his first acts a high risk move by trading Gay and something else to acquire a draft choice of the highest profile but great uncertainty? If the guy doesn't turn out to be an all-star he will be dogged in Toronto just like Bargnani(And Colangelo). I'd rather see them wait it out, see what happens on draft night and if somebody is looking to deal a lotto pick and their guy is there then they work a deal. The Raptors need to be opportunists and by the sounds of the Cavs rumors the situation doesn't currently sound like much of an attractive opportunity.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    On the flip side of this, why on earth does the next GM make one of his first acts a high risk move by trading Gay and something else to acquire a draft choice of the highest profile but great uncertainty? If the guy doesn't turn out to be an all-star he will be dogged in Toronto just like Bargnani(And Colangelo). I'd rather see them wait it out, see what happens on draft night and if somebody is looking to deal a lotto pick and their guy is there then they work a deal. The Raptors need to be opportunists and by the sounds of the Cavs rumors the situation doesn't currently sound like much of an attractive opportunity.
    Maybe there's someone he really likes at the top of the draft? Maybe he realizes that paying Rudy Gay $37 million over the next two years is a pretty good recipe for a mediocre team?

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  4. #43
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Absolutely.

    Kinda funny this comes up; if we go for Otto Porter, there are some similarities between the two. Share the same jersey number too.

    Watch the first part of this video, especially the three from 0:05 to 0:08, and tell me his play doesn't look exactly like Rudy:

    Seems like he spins the ball when he shoots it

  5. #44
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Maybe there's someone he really likes at the top of the draft? Maybe he realizes that paying Rudy Gay $37 million over the next two years is a pretty good recipe for a mediocre team?
    Colangelo really liked Andrea Bargnani. The Nets really liked Kenyon Martin...

    Gay doesn't add to mediocrity, he's a really good player.

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Colangelo really liked Andrea Bargnani. The Nets really liked Kenyon Martin...

    Gay doesn't add to mediocrity, he's a really good player.
    And that is what is lost when you make on average $18M over next 2 years.

    If he was making $12-13, he never gets traded or he returns much more.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Colangelo really liked Andrea Bargnani. The Nets really liked Kenyon Martin...

    Gay doesn't add to mediocrity, he's a really good player.
    Lol weren't just for this trade? You sure jump ship pretty quick.

  8. #47
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And that is what is lost when you make on average $18M over next 2 years.

    If he was making $12-13, he never gets traded or he returns much more.
    Why does matter? Bell/Rogers are willing to pay the money. Thier no player in this draft that is projected to be better than Rudy Gay.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Lets not be revisionist historians. Memphis was making a salary dump while attempting to stay competitive. They would not take back equal dollars and they had to get pieces that fit.

    What might allow the Raptors to get a better package? If they took on another teams expiring contract that is currently not movable (Ben Gordon comes immediately to mind).
    Cleveland was on the receiving end of a salary dump by Memphis and gave up very little in return. Cleveland showed no interest in Gay at the time and now it's 1st + Andy or 1st + TT?

    I would like some of what Raptors fans are smoking.

    The Gay trades suggested are all salary dump; all involve the Raptors trading more salary than they receive and not just by a small margin.
    Last edited by Hugmenot; Wed May 29th, 2013 at 08:47 PM.

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  11. #49
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Substituting into the game: Logic

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Lol weren't just for this trade? You sure jump ship pretty quick.
    The more I thought about it, the more it makes sense to me that they don't do it. Your first see "#1", you think about the prestige of it all, it gets you a little. Then I thought about Bargnani and how the negativity certainly has had a negative impact on his game. Some is warranted but I guarantee you that if he were taken 5th-10th overall he would not have been under the same microscope and he would not have been forced into games so much, so early when he clearly was not ready. Then I think about right now, the kid that goes #1, if it's Toronto taking him he's in for a really rough ride it he doesn't post pretty stats in the first couple years. If he's not better by leaps and bounds by year three or four then he gets mercilessly torched. Toronto is best to stay away from the top of the lottery. The risk, the expectations(fans & media), the fact that this would be one of the new guy's first acts, it all adds up to a bad idea in a draft with no sure fire #1. If there is no sure fire #1 then who says the best player taken isn't the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, ect. pick? Emotion guided me first but logic has checked into the game. Look at my post progressions through this thread, you'll see my "uh huh" moment.

    And for the record, I still don't think the Cavs would bite on a Rudy Gay offer either. I don't think it makes sense for either party.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And that is what is lost when you make on average $18M over next 2 years.

    If he was making $12-13, he never gets traded or he returns much more.
    I can interpret this two entirely different ways. Are you for him staying or do you want him out of here because of the price tag? His game jumped this season when he landed in Toronto. It was time for him to leave Memphis and he could be a good long term option should the next two years go right by the team showing him they have the best intentions of putting the team before all else and they are competent.

  12. #50
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Memphis was making a salary dump while attempting to stay competitive.
    dude how did you start this thread with a straight face and then proceed to call the raps' acquisition of rudy gay a salary dump for memphis?

    like, they looked carefully at their roster and decided (correctly) "he just ain't worth it!" and then immediately got better redistributing his shots to conley and bayless and pondexter.

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  14. #51
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    Sources say the Cavs have already begun to explore what they can get with the No. 1 pick. If they can get a young big or small forward in return
    presumably those sources are thinking of young bigs or small forwards like jonas or mkg, not "young" players on max contracts entering their 8th seasons like rudy gay or brook lopez, though lopez did just put up a PER north or 24 i believe

    i think val is probably the only asset we have the cavs would consider, which, no thank you

  15. #52
    Raptors Republic Rookie feet85's Avatar
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    No.Rudy is the Face of this Franchise.
    #BringBackUzoh

  16. #53
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Why does matter? Bell/Rogers are willing to pay the money. Thier no player in this draft that is projected to be better than Rudy Gay.
    because it's not baseball and you can't stockpile pretty good players on crazy contracts.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And that is what is lost when you make on average $18M over next 2 years.

    If he was making $12-13, he never gets traded or he returns much more.
    yeah but he gets paid 18 million! there is no value in that! you could draft porter and get 75% of what gay can do for a third of the price, though i would personally go for burke as i see no scenario where he does suceed in today's game.

    i'd call this an unprecedented proposition except the nets traded a top 3 protected pick that turned out to be damian lillard for gerald wallace just last year.

  17. #54
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    yeah but he gets paid 18 million! there is no value in that! you could draft porter and get 75% of what gay can do for a third of the price, though i would personally go for burke as i see no scenario where he does suceed in today's game.
    Let's pretend for a minute that you're a Cavs fan and you're pumped that the team has been dealt aces.

    You then read a report that the team has just pulled a deal sending that #1 pick to Toronto for Rudy Gay. How do you feel? Keep in mind what you just wrote above...

  18. #55
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Let's pretend for a minute that you're a Cavs fan and you're pumped that the team has been dealt aces.

    You then read a report that the team has just pulled a deal sending that #1 pick to Toronto for Rudy Gay. How do you feel? Keep in mind what you just wrote above...
    i'd be fuming that we didn't add a more valuable asset at a position of need, like porter or noel (i guess, i'm not high on him), or package the pick with another asset (like TT or waiters) for a bona-fide superstar like kevin love, if he's available

  19. #56
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    i view the concept of value in this league as a marriage of ability, potential, and price. so, in my mind, rudy gay has high ability, zero potential (he is what he is), and costs a fortune, hence he has low value.

    a number one overall pick has variable ability (but it usually is pretty high), off the charts potential, and a rookie scale contract, hence extremely high value. once the rookie contract is up you can set the price if you don't like where the ability level is at or feel the potential is limited, or walk away altogether.
    Last edited by chris; Wed May 29th, 2013 at 10:03 PM. Reason: redundancy

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  21. #57
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Let's pretend for a minute that you're a Cavs fan and you're pumped that the team has been dealt aces.

    You then read a report that the team has just pulled a deal sending that #1 pick to Toronto for Rudy Gay. How do you feel? Keep in mind what you just wrote above...
    also hugmenot is a cavs fan i think and i believe he's made his position pretty clear on where he would stand on such a deal

  22. #58
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Did you really say that Otto Porter would be better for the Cavs than Rudy?

  23. #59
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    no i said paying him a third of what rudy gay makes is money better spent.

    what part of value do ppl not understand?

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  25. #60
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    also thinking about it for 30 more seconds he might be a better fit as he's billed as a very good overall player who does most things well but nothing spectacular, and could blend in, whereas rudy demands touches and would there be enough to go around with irving and waiters?

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