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Thread: Raptors/Pacers season series

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Default Raptors/Pacers season series

    Watching the Pacers in these playoffs specially against the Heat i'm impressed. And to think that we beat this team 2 out of 4 times this past season(almost 3 actually. Hill scored late in the clock back in game 1 of the season to give the Pacers the win). I really don't think this Raptors team is that far off from being a competitive team. And i also think they have a lot of similarities with this current Pacers team. I mean, the only thing that they're missing really is a David West type of a power forward.

    Hibbert - Valanciunas
    West - N/A
    George - Gay
    Stephenson - DeRozan
    Hill - Lowry

    JV i think is going to be a better player than Hibbert. George and Gay offset each other. Ok, i give the edge to George. Stephenson is a much better defender than DeRozan but DeRozan is a much better offensive player. Hill > Lowry.

    What this team needs is a PF. No offense to Amir but i don't think he's good enough. If they can get a player like a Millsap or an Al Jefferson, they'll be one of the best team in the league.

    Btw, Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap and JJ Hickson are all UFA's. David West is also a UFA but he's not going anywhere.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Watching the Pacers in these playoffs specially against the Heat i'm impressed. And to think that we beat this team 2 out of 4 times this past season(almost 3 actually. Hill scored late in the clock back in game 1 of the season to give the Pacers the win). I really don't think this Raptors team is that far off from being a competitive team. And i also think they have a lot of similarities with this current Pacers team. I mean, the only thing that they're missing really is a David West type of a power forward.

    Hibbert - Valanciunas
    West - N/A
    George - Gay
    Stephenson - DeRozan
    Hill - Lowry

    JV i think is going to be a better player than Hibbert. George and Gay offset each other. Ok, i give the edge to George. Stephenson is a much better defender than DeRozan but DeRozan is a much better offensive player. Hill > Lowry.

    What this team needs is a PF. No offense to Amir but i don't think he's good enough. If they can get a player like a Millsap or an Al Jefferson, they'll be one of the best team in the league.

    Btw, Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap and JJ Hickson are all UFA's. David West is also a UFA but he's not going anywhere.
    I've made this point a couple times. I'm glad that someone else shares the same thought. I would only disagree with you with the Hill/Lowry. I think Lowry is the better overall player. I also think that Stephenson is more of a glue guy. Just like I feel Landry Fields would be in the starting lineup. I like the idea of having the two duo wings scoring threat. I feel like JV will become more dominant low post scorer and DD/RG will take care of the perimeter scoring. As long Casey can get the D back to his first year. I don't see how this team doesn't involve into a different mould of this Pacer team.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I hate to rain on your parade, because the raps DID play well against the pacers but any argument that says the raps are close to being a good team because they played well against 1 particular team is completely negated by the following...

    Raps got swept by the bucks (0-3) including a couple of games that really mattered down the stretch.
    and the Heat (0-4)

    Bucks got swept by the Heat...

    The raps are still a L O N G way from the pacers, despite playing well against them this season.

    Just to put things in perspective here's how we did against other teams

    We got swept by 8 teams during the regular season:
    Golden State 0 2
    Memphis 0 2
    Miami 0 3
    Milwaukee 0 3
    Oklahoma City 0 2
    Sacramento 0 2
    San Antonio 0 2
    Utah 0 2

    We lost the regular season series to another 4 teams
    Atlanta 1 2
    Boston 1 3
    Brooklyn 1 3
    Philadelphia 1 3

    3 of which are in our division...

    We tied 12 regular season series':
    Charlotte 2 2
    Cleveland 2 2
    Dallas 1 1
    Denver 1 1
    Detriot 2 2
    Houston 1 1
    Indiana 2 2
    L. A. Clippers 1 1
    L. A. Lakers 1 1
    New York 2 2
    Portland 1 1
    Washington 2 2

    We swept 4 series':
    Minnesota 2 0
    New Orleans 2 0
    Orlando 4 0
    Phoenix 2 0

    And won 1 other regular season series:
    Chicago 2 1

    So in case you are keeping track at home, we

    Lost 12 out of 29 series, including 8 sweeps
    Tied 12 out of 29 series
    Won 5 out of 29 series, including 4 sweeps


    We are not anywhere NEAR Indiana. If we played them in playoffs we'd be lucky to win 2 games.

    EDIT

    And to think that we beat this team 2 out of 4 times this past season(almost 3 actually. Hill scored late in the clock back in game 1 of the season to give the Pacers the win).
    We beat Indiana by 2 in both of our wins.
    We Lost by 2 in 1 game and 12 in the final meeting
    Cumulative score differential Indy, by 10...

    If we came close to beating them 3 out 4, they came almost as close to sweeping us entirely.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu May 30th, 2013 at 04:48 AM.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    I hate to rain on your parade, because the raps DID play well against the pacers but ....
    Exactly.

    You can argue that playoff basketball is different Iand it is, for several reasons) but even my wife commented on the play during one of the Pacers/Miami games; on how much better either team looked than the Raptors.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    A lot of the loses are dont forget from a shitty bench unit that was a complete negative anytime they stepped on the court, turnovers, no offense no defense nothing. The Raps starters showed they could play with any team but when ever the subs checked in all they did was start digging a hole.

    Its not like we played those games against Bucks and Heat (save for 1 dreadful night against the Bucks) where the Raps were awful from the start, it was an overall theme Raps cruise playing awesome bench comes in wets the bed starters have to fight back and they lose. Rap Bench: Lucas, Ross, Anderson/and or Fields, Acy

    A small SG chucker running point who cant execute the simplest of offenses, a rookie, a chucker playing above his talents, A glue guy that cant score and a undersized PF rookie.... what on Earth are people expecting.... I wont even list Bargnani you all know what he did this season..

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    The Pacers have David West and we have Amir Johnson, big difference. To improve this team, we need to acquire players like Millsap, Al Jeff, or Lamarcus Aldridge. Personally, I see Millsap as attainable by giving them DD + fillers and we flip Bargnani for a backup SG or SF + PG

    Lowry/Backup PG VS Hill
    Fields/Ross Stephenson
    Gay/Backup SF George
    Millsap/Amir/Acy West
    Val/Gray Hibbert

    Lowry = Hill
    Fields < Stephenson
    Gay = George
    Millsap < West
    Val > Hibbert

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    To win close games you need a big you can dump the ball to and score on the block. Same with the playoffs. Love Amir but he can't really do that. He's a great player, though. JV was showing some real promise at it. At the end of the season i'd get so enraged when they stopped running the offense through flying V.

    I'd get a big who can score on the block, but more of a stopgap solution. I think Val will be able to do it consistently in the future, and when that happens amir will be the perfect compliment, but for now if they're serious about winning and playoffs they should get a dude like Jefferson or someone.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Don't mistake the fact that the Raps match up well against Indiana with the idea that the Raps are close, etc. Indiana is a vastly superior team to Toronto. Pacers manhandled the Knicks and could very well be up 3-1 on Miami.

    Raps are nowhere close to the Pacers and Heat.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RAPTORNATION's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    A lot of the loses are dont forget from a shitty bench unit that was a complete negative anytime they stepped on the court, turnovers, no offense no defense nothing. The Raps starters showed they could play with any team but when ever the subs checked in all they did was start digging a hole.

    Its not like we played those games against Bucks and Heat (save for 1 dreadful night against the Bucks) where the Raps were awful from the start, it was an overall theme Raps cruise playing awesome bench comes in wets the bed starters have to fight back and they lose. Rap Bench: Lucas, Ross, Anderson/and or Fields, Acy

    A small SG chucker running point who cant execute the simplest of offenses, a rookie, a chucker playing above his talents, A glue guy that cant score and a undersized PF rookie.... what on Earth are people expecting.... I wont even list Bargnani you all know what he did this season..
    Then how do we increase our depth?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote RAPTORNATION wrote: View Post
    Then how do we increase our depth?
    Make some good moves there are plenty of free agents and pieces we can trade to tighten up thatt bench unit, the main problem was Lucas or Calderon I had no idea running point for 10-15 minutes a night could completely destroy the game so much.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    I never get that Indiana comparison that comes up quite often lately. In my opinion they are built completely different than we. One small example: they would not like to play with a small point guard like Lowry; it's not a good fit for their style.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I never get that Indiana comparison that comes up quite often lately. In my opinion they are built completely different than we. One small example: they would not like to play with a small point guard like Lowry; it's not a good fit for their style.
    It's the Hibbert/George and Val/Gay comparison. Also, I believe BC mentioned Indy as the type of buidling plan or structure or organic growth (or whatever the catch-phrase of the month was to distract the rubes) he was sorta, kinda following.

    I also find that Raptor fans (like every other sports fan) mostly follow their own team. I don't think people realize how good Hibbert and West are as duo or how effective guys like George Hill and Paul George are cause they don't see them play more than a few times a year. Or that the Indy team is built around a defense-first philosophy whereas Toronto is built around the "glue a bunch of random stuff together in a big ball and hope it looks like art" philosophy.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I think the Indiana comparisons are even looser than that described above. It's basically boils down to, "look, they don't have a superstar player either, so we're totally like them"

    Totally.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I never get that Indiana comparison that comes up quite often lately. In my opinion they are built completely different than we. One small example: they would not like to play with a small point guard like Lowry; it's not a good fit for their style.
    I agree. Going through position by position one can warrant making a comparison, but when looking at how these teams play...not so much. Indiana's success stems from their defense first mentality, they are not the most talented offensive group but they do have solid options and they take advantage of that with there inside-outside halfcourt offense. The Raps are built to move and have seemingly put their defense behind their offense in terms of developmental priority for the team. Indiana, I think, attempts to force teams to take tough shots and then gobble up the boards. Raps are risk takers defensively, trying to force turnovers and get out on the break. The Pacers are certainly a harder working team defensively, and often, I think, the best defensive teams are those that exhibit the hardest work ethic on that end of the floor. It's not just about knowing where you have to be on the court as the opposing team goes through its offensive motions, but knowing what it takes to get there and then actually commiting to executing that effort each and every play. The Pacers do this, the Raps do not and this is disconcerting considering Casey is a defensive coach and we actually had decent defense the previous season.

    I'd like to see the Raps play more like the Pacers defensively, and if so, the comparison would make more sense. And here's to hoping JV continues to improve down low in order to facilitate an inside-outside offense. I'm still not on the upgrade the PF movement yet, but maybe if we move one of our starting wings (I guess that would be DD) I'd be more amenable to the idea.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    The Pacers have David West and we have Amir Johnson, big difference. To improve this team, we need to acquire players like Millsap, Al Jeff, or Lamarcus Aldridge. Personally, I see Millsap as attainable by giving them DD + fillers and we flip Bargnani for a backup SG or SF + PG

    Lowry/Backup PG VS Hill
    Fields/Ross Stephenson
    Gay/Backup SF George
    Millsap/Amir/Acy West
    Val/Gray Hibbert

    Lowry = Hill
    Fields < Stephenson
    Gay = George
    Millsap < West
    Val > Hibbert
    LOL.

    You can't be serious...
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    Raptors Republic Rookie feet85's Avatar
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    -ezz_bee Lost 12 out of 29 series, including 8 sweeps
    Tied 12 out of 29 series
    Won 5 out of 29 series, including 4 sweeps

    You Need To understand that Rudy Gay wasn't there for the majority of these games and he makes a huge difference. I honestly think that we could be a top 6 seed in the East next season with the addition of a proper pg rotation (Deven Harris and Ben Uzoh)
    #BringBackUzoh

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    Looks at the Raptors bench...Looks at the Pacers bench...

    ...No, not seeing it...

  20. #18
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Looks at the Raptors bench...Looks at the Pacers bench...

    ...No, not seeing it...
    Pacers have terrible bench

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Pacers have terrible bench
    Looks back at the Raptors bench...
    ...still not seeing it...

  22. #20
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Looks back at the Raptors bench...
    ...still not seeing it...
    Raptors had a better bench than Pacers

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